Pros and cons of religous forums

[Robban]

Where is the Torah?
Does it resde in the heavens with the angels?

Or in a parchment scroll in the ark of the synagogue?

Or with the rabbis and scholars?

It lives in the heart of each person who learns it,
in the voice of the one who discusses it and in the life of the one who lives.

That heart,
that voice,
that life-

that too, is Gods word.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Where is the Torah?
Does it resde in the heavens with the angels?

Or in a parchment scroll in the ark of the synagogue?

Or with the rabbis and scholars?

It lives in the heart of each person who learns it,
in the voice of the one who discusses it and in the life of the one who lives.

That heart,
that voice,
that life-

that too, is Gods word.

Yes, Just like Romans. 2

 

[Rajni]

I was thinking about the label issue too. My attitude towards Christianity has changed so that it seems to be more about trying to follow a path through a fog. I'll believe things when I trip over them for myself. It's about experimenting and trying rather than taking a cookbook off the shelf. I see some people who are content to smugly carry the cookbook and scold me for using too much salt, but they never try to cook for themselves. Who has more right to label as a "cook"? - the person who knows the recipes by heart and never cooks or the person who tries to cook and makes awful dishes?

The cookbook analogy is so spot-on!

I've long since set aside my cookbooks. The ingredients I need fall into my lap as I need them, and vanish as soon as I don't, it seems.

-

 

[cloudyday2]

Tbh I've been looking for answers for over ten years and don't feel like I'm much closer than when I started so it's tempting to just give up and live life. At least then I'll free up my book reading schedule and focus on other intellectual pursuits.

I have thought about that option too. I used to read a lot of history books. I never read anything about religion, because I thought it was boring. I enjoyed reading about US presidents, foreign policy, espionage, war, economics, etc. After I had my psychological or spiritual breakdown I began reading only about religion, UFOs, paranormal, etc. That's been going on for 10 years now.

 

[Zoness]

I have thought about that option too. I used to read a lot of history books. I never read anything about religion, because I thought it was boring. I enjoyed reading about US presidents, foreign policy, espionage, war, economics, etc. After I had my psychological or spiritual breakdown I began reading only about religion, UFOs, paranormal, etc. That's been going on for 10 years now.

I find religious history interesting but I'm more interested in science and technology and the future and I'm starting to feel like philosophy and all of this deep diving is just too much navel gazing at times and it's distracting me since I'm not likely to find satisfying answers. Ah well, to each their own of course. I've never been super into the paranormal but I have a fascination with cults. It's so removed from how I think that it's pretty alien.

You know what I want? Some dope galactic civilization. Too bad I'm going to die before we really traverse the stars.

 

[cloudyday2]

Well, did you expect Jesus to meet men's values/ ideas/ expectations ? His Own People, who had TORAH all their lives and for centuries already, rejected Jesus the Messiah, even though He perfectly fulfilled every prophecy of the Messiah.

Men continued messing up after the 1st century (yes, also during the 1st century). Men are evil, corrupt, selfish , stupid, naked and worse... seeking to drag everyone down away from life, away from salvation , away from the Creator Yahweh,
down into the grave, everyone trying to corrupt everyone else.

What chance does anyone have ? None.

Yet what is IMPOSSIBLE for men,

it ACCOMPLISHED by YAHWEH through JESUS ,

JESUS who does not fit men's "theology" at all.... before He came theology, while He was on earth theology, after He ascended theology .... He never tries to do what men expect as theologians or scholars or priests or pastors or professors, or teachers etc etc etc ....

He ALWAYS does exactly what ABBA YAHWEH, our Heavenly Father , directed Him to do. Just as He directs us to do.

TODAY, IF .... "IF" you (earthlings) hear HIS VOICE,
do not rebel as they did in the wilderness and perished.

They only heard and saw thunder and lighning in the mountaintop, and Yahweh held them accountable even to dying for disobeying..... HOW MUCH MORE we are held accountable having heard from JESUS MESSIAH WHO is so much greater than the mountain ! (see accurate passages in Scripture)....

I would be interested in why you believe these things. For example, maybe you heard God's voice while strolling in the countryside or whatever. Too many Christians think that they can persuade people by telling them only the beliefs without the reasons they personally accept these beliefs. It's like they think the gospel will magically ring true with unbelievers - similar to Muslims who believe the Quran can convert people to Islam even if it is read in Arabic and they do not understand Arabic. The Bible is just another religious book to me.

I like to hear personal accounts explaining why Christians believe.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

I like to hear personal accounts explaining why Christians believe.

I think Foxes Book of Martyrs fits the bill for you. Personal accounts, to the death, through 20 centuries or so.

I think it is still available freely, online, pdf,
and
perhaps in other media also (like hardcover or softcover book?) but not free.

 

[zippy2006]

I was thinking about the label issue too. My attitude towards Christianity has changed so that it seems to be more about trying to follow a path through a fog. I'll believe things when I trip over them for myself. It's about experimenting and trying rather than taking a cookbook off the shelf. I see some people who are content to smugly carry the cookbook and scold me for using too much salt, but they never try to cook for themselves. Who has more right to label as a "cook"? - the person who knows the recipes by heart and never cooks or the person who tries to cook and makes awful dishes?

EDIT: I guess the core issue is what should I do with my limited faith? Should I do nothing or should I try to stumble along the best I can? ... This is probably still not making sense. I'm not sure I even know what I mean LOL

Practice and theory are always the two sides of the existential teeter totter that slowly spirals into the depths. ...or something like that.

If you want to learn to cook you will need a lot of different things, but cookbooks are usually helpful too.

• Cooking . . . Cookbooks
• Practice . . . Theory
  
• Personal appropriation . . . Normativity
  
• Speaking . . . Listening
  
• Leading . . . Following
  
• Experimentation . . . Imitation
  
• Tasting . . . Anticipating
• Magnanimity . . . Humility
• Experience . . . Tradition
  
• Prayer . . . Reading
• Reason . . . Faith
  
• (both)

Stagnation will occur when you lean too strongly in either direction.

 

[Starcomet]

Hmm for me my beliefs have remained the same mostly, but I have always been happy to learn new things from others on this forum. I must say though I am sadden that the site has become more exclusive then when I first joined many years ago. I do not recall a statement of belief and there were more forum sections open to all.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

QUOTE=
"Starcomet, "]
Hmm for me my beliefs have remained the same mostly, but I have always been happy to learn new things from others on this forum. I must say though I am sadden that the site has become more exclusive then when I first joined many years ago. I do not recall a statement of belief and there were more forum sections open to all.
[/QUOTE
=============================
Well,
Yahweh is VERY EXCLUSIVE. He doesn't give any flexibility nor choice in that. Those who do not make it, don't make it.

 

[Starcomet]

QUOTE=
"Starcomet, "]
Hmm for me my beliefs have remained the same mostly, but I have always been happy to learn new things from others on this forum. I must say though I am sadden that the site has become more exclusive then when I first joined many years ago. I do not recall a statement of belief and there were more forum sections open to all.
[/QUOTE
=============================
Well,
Yahweh is VERY EXCLUSIVE. He doesn't give any flexibility nor choice in that. Those who do not make it, don't make it.

He is not that exclusive! Anyone who wishes to worship him may do so and follow all of the laws they can and be righteous. He is only exclusive to those who are wicked and unjust.

"Thus says the Lord:
Maintain justice, and do what is right,
for soon my salvation will come,
and my deliverance be revealed.
Happy is the mortal who does this,
the one who holds it fast,
who keeps the sabbath, not profaning it,
and refrains from doing any evil.
Do not let the foreigner joined to the Lord say,
‘The Lord will surely separate me from his people’;
and do not let the eunuch say,
‘I am just a dry tree.’ " Isaiah 56:1-3

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Jesus is totally exclusive, excluding all other ways and things men might try,
when Jesus says: "I AM the Way , the TRUTH, and the Life,
no man comes to the Father but by ME" .....

 

[Robban]

Jesus is totally exclusive, excluding all other ways and things men might try,
when Jesus says: "I AM the Way , the TRUTH, and the Life,
no man comes to the Father but by ME" .....

If this means gate, gatekeeper there is a fence,

anyone climbing over the fence is a thief.

So if he means he is the gatekeeper,

it follows that he must recognize you to let you in.

So, it is not a matter of just walking in.

Like illegal border crossings that are so trendy these days.

Would reckon.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

it follows that he must recognize you to let you in.

Yahweh recognizes everyone.... He Created every molecule of life, of all existence, ever....

And don't some shepherds , seeing sheep wandering , bring them in also , which once were not their sheep (i.e. not seen nor recognized before, humanly speaking on earth) ?

 

[Robban]

Yahweh recognizes everyone.... He Created every molecule of life, of all existence, ever....

And don't some shepherds , seeing sheep wandering , bring them in also , which once were not their sheep (i.e. not seen nor recognized before, humanly speaking on earth) ?

Only if you are you.

On that day he shall say,
"I do not know you, get outa here."

Matt 7:23

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Only if you are you.

On that day he shall say,
"I do not know you, get outa here."

Matt 7:23

Only if who is who ?

And who , btw, is "he" ?

 

[Robban]

Only if who is who ?

And who , btw, is "he" ?

Who is who?

There is only one of you,
there is only one of me,
and so is it for everyone.

If you are not you then he will not recognize you.

He ?

Good question,
is God a man?

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

On that day he shall say,
"I do not know you, get outa here."

Who is "he" in your statement ?

edit: added question: And where is "here" in your statement ?

 

[Robban]

Who is "he" in your statement ?

edit: added question: And where is "here" in your statement ?

Use your loaf.

He is the one talking and here is his precence.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Use your loaf.

He is the one talking and here is his precence.

Sorry, is that in Hebrew or in English ?

That's not clear at all.