There IS no gravity.

[JacksBratt]

I thought gravity didnt have to be proved? I mean, you fall from a tree as a kid and you end up sore.

Nobody is arguing that things fall down.

FE'ers say that there is only down.. buoyancy determines things like helium balloons floating up.. Aerodynamics cause a wing to give lift, and ice floats in water.. that sort of thing.

The globe model, on the other hand, has a problem with keeping the Australians and the Americans, both with there feet on the ground while up is opposites to each other.

Also, FEers see the stars and planets being "in" the firmament and very close. They do not need a mysterious force determined by mass and distance to hole "orbits".

The globe model needs this force to keep orbits and our atmosphere sucked to earth as it fights the vacuum of space that would suck it all away into oblivion.

All in all.. Neil DeGrass Tyson, stated that we are missing 96% of the mass necessary for the "gravity" we experience... to quote him....."we are 96% stupid when it comes to what we know about gravity.. We can measure it and observe it but don't know the cause of it...."

 

[lasthero]

The globe model, on the other hand, has a problem with keeping the Australians and the Americans, both with there feet on the ground while up is opposites to each other.

That's not a problem. Literally the only people who think it's a problem are flat earthers. Just about everyone else generally understands how it works.

Also, FEers see the stars and planets being "in" the firmament and very close.

Despite the vast evidence to the contrary.

They do not need a mysterious force determined by mass and distance to hole "orbits".

You want to talk about mysteries?

What exactly ARE the planets in the 'flat earth model'? Why do they move the way they do? Why, when we look at them through a telescope, do we not only see them, but small things moving AROUND them, in much the same way the Moon appears to move around us? Why do some of them have rings? What's up with the craters we see on some of them? Why do some of them appear solid while others appear to be made out of gas, and why are all the farthest ones so big? Why does Jupiter have what appears to be a giant hurricane moving on its surface? Why do they appear to be rotating around the Sun? If they're like the stars, why don't they seem to be generating their own light? What are comets? What are meteors? Why do they come and go at regular fashion? Where do they come from AT ALL, if space doesn't exist and we're surrounded by a giant dome? Why does the Moon turn red sometimes? Why does the Moon have craters?

I could go on and on and on and list things that are generally well understood by the rest of the world, but flat earthers only have a mishmash of assorted, nonsensical answers, too. Oh, you'll get a lot of answers for them, but there won't be any actual research to it. At best you'll get speculation, and most of the people speculating will contradict each other.

 

[A_Thinker]

The globe model, on the other hand, has a problem with keeping the Australians and the Americans, both with there feet on the ground while up is opposites to each other.

There's no problem. This is what we observe ... on a globe earth. The direction of the pull of gravity ... is down.

If you tie an anvil to a rope ... and hold it up above the ground, ... you can feel the force of gravity pulling toward the ground. It's exactly the same sense you get when you are on one side of a tug-of-war ... and feel the other side pulling against you.

All in all.. Neil DeGrass Tyson, stated that we are missing 96% of the mass necessary for the "gravity" we experience... to quote him....."we are 96% stupid when it comes to what we know about gravity.. We can measure it and observe it but don't know the cause of it...."

There are many effects which we acknowledge ... without knowing exactly the physics behind them. Humans utilized fire for millennia ... without knowing the physics behind it ...

 

[JacksBratt]

That's not a problem. Literally the only people who think it's a problem are flat earthers. Just about everyone else generally understands how it works.

Thank you for agreeing with me... as a globe model believer, you have totally confirmed what I said about the people who hold to the globe model.

Despite the vast evidence to the contrary.

Thank you for agreeing with me... as a globe model believer, you have totally confirmed what I said about the people who hold to the globe model.

What exactly ARE the planets in the 'flat earth model'? Why do they move the way they do? Why, when we look at them through a telescope, do we not only see them, but small things moving AROUND them, in much the same way the Moon appears to move around us? Why do some of them have rings? What's up with the craters we see on some of them? Why do some of them appear solid while others appear to be made out of gas, and why are all the farthest ones so big? Why does Jupiter have what appears to be a giant hurricane moving on its surface? Why do they appear to be rotating around the Sun? If they're like the stars, why don't they seem to be generating their own light? What are comets? What are meteors? Why do they come and go at regular fashion? Where do they come from AT ALL, if space doesn't exist and we're surrounded by a giant dome? Why does the Moon turn red sometimes? Why does the Moon have craters?

Wow, that's a lot of "whys"..However, God is the only one that can answer that. We could just as easily ask.. Why are there 9 planets? Why are there mountains? Why is there not two moons? Why are does water contract until 4 degrees centigrade and then, when further cooled... expand?

The answers to your questions.. if you can find them, do not prove or disprove either model.

I could go on and on and on and list things that are generally well understood by the rest of the world, but flat earthers only have a mishmash of assorted, nonsensical answers, too. Oh, you'll get a lot of answers for them, but there won't be any actual research to it. At best you'll get speculation, and most of the people speculating will contradict each other.

From what I have seen, for you and others here.. if a person is a FEer anything that they say is bogus anyway.


SO...., until we get to that... we still have the main problem that I was commenting on... what is behind this "gravity" and why can they not find 96% of it and why does Neil... the poster child for modern cosmology... not know what it is?

 

[JacksBratt]

There's no problem. This is what we observe ... on a globe earth. The direction of the pull of gravity ... is down.

As on a FE.

If you tie an anvil to a rope ... and hold it up above the ground, ... you can feel the force of gravity pulling toward the ground. It's exactly the same sense you get when you are on one side of a tug-of-war ... and feel the other side pulling against you.

Cool.. but... to a FEer.. it's just that it has mass and as you stated above, mass will fall down. Always has.. always will.

There are many effects which we acknowledge ... without knowing exactly the physics behind them. Humans utilized fire for millennia ... without knowing the physics behind it ...

However, we know what fire is now... And, we have more technology now and knowledge now.. and still cannot figure out gravity.

By the way, this is not me talking.. It's Neil... He says that when it comes to gravity.. we are 96% stupid.

There is not really anything that guys like you and I are going to be able to say or do that is going to prove or disprove the globe.. based on "gravity".

 

[lasthero]

Wow, that's a lot of "whys"..However, God is the only one that can answer that. We could just as easily ask.. Why are there 9 planets?

We have that answer.

Why are there mountains

We know why mountains exist.

Why is there not two moons?

This is the only question of yours that there's any debate about, and the hypotheses at least have evidence to back them up.

Why are does water contract until 4 degrees centigrade and then, when further cooled... expand?

We know why.

Wow, that's a lot of "whys"..However, God is the only one that can answer that.

And that right there is why no one takes flat earthers seriously and why it will never be more than a useless internet movement. When flat earthers come to stuff they don't understand, they don't stop and try to actually figure it out. They give up.

The answers to your questions.. if you can find them, do not prove or disprove either model.

No. But they do prove the 'flat earth model' is completely bereft of any explanatory power, which is the entire point of a model, and thus makes it rather useless. It explains nothing that the current model doesn't explain and, in fact, just brings up more questions. A lot more questions. There's a reason it was been relegated to the garbage dump of human history for thousands of years before NASA came along.

From what I have seen, for you and others here.. if a person is a FEer anything that they say is bogus anyway.

If FEers keep saying things that don't match with reality, that's on them.

SO...., until we get to that... we still have the main problem that I was commenting on... what is behind this "gravity" and why can they not find 96% of it and why does Neil... the poster child for modern cosmology... not know what it is?

Let's say you're completely right and we have absolutely no idea what causes it.

So? So what?

As Thinker pointed out, we didn't understand how fire worked, but we still used fire. We didn't understand how electricity worked, but we still harnessed electricity. We didn't know how fermentation worked, but we still created wine. Et cetera, et cetera, et etera.

Just because we don't understand everything about gravity doesn't mean we can't make predictions about it, can't work off those predictions, and can't use those predictions.

So what does the flat earth model predict? How does buoyancy explain the movement of the Moon, or why the tides go in and out in relation to the Moon, or why the planets and stars move as they do?

 

[lasthero]

However, we know what fire is now... And, we have more technology now and knowledge now.. and still cannot figure out gravity.

We don't even completely understand how our own bodies work yet. We don't even know for sure why we yawn. Think about that - millions of people yawn every second, and we still don't know why it happens and what purpose it serves.

 

[JackRT]

I could go on and on and on and list things that are generally well understood by the rest of the world, but flat earthers only have a mishmash of assorted, nonsensical answers, too. Oh, you'll get a lot of answers for them, but there won't be any actual research to it. At best you'll get speculation, and most of the people speculating will contradict each other.

It is almost as if a form of insanity has led them to reject rational thought and engage in a sort of magical thinking. The test of any theory is simple --- does it work. Our present cosmology works and works exceptionally well and is backed up by other solid theories. Science is a coherent whole.

 

[Radagast]

All in all.. Neil DeGrass Tyson, stated that we are missing 96% of the mass necessary for the "gravity" we experience... to quote him....."we are 96% stupid when it comes to what we know about gravity.. We can measure it and observe it but don't know the cause of it...."

You misunderstand him. For gravity within the solar system, 100% of the mass is clearly visible.

 

[A_Thinker]

However, we know what fire is now... And, we have more technology now and knowledge now.. and still cannot figure out gravity.

Knowledge is an acquired thing. We have acquired the knowledge of the physics of fire ... though I'm not sure many non-scientists could relate that knowledge.

We are in the process of acquiring knowledge about gravity. We can see and feel it's effects ... and we are currently seeking to understand its mechanism.

That's what Science does. If Science started with dogmatic statements (i.e. "there is no gravity"), ... we would never LEARN anything. And although it certainly is not the only thing we were put here to do, ... it is certain that God expects us to LEARN from what we see around us.

Jesus, Himself, made many observations from His experience of everyday life ...

"Behold the lilies, ... how they spin not, and yet ... are beautiful."

"The wind blows where it will ... and noone knows where it comes from ... or where it is going."

"A sower went forth to sow some seeds ... "

I.myself, have found correlation in the Bible as to our current understanding of the effect we call gravity ...

He [Jesus] is the image of the invisible God, the first-born of all creation; for in him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or authorities - all things were created through him and for him. He is before all things, and in him all things hold together. Colossians 1:15-17

This correlates with other Biblical statements refering to the Creation ...

For in him we live and move and have our being. Acts 17:28

 

[JacksBratt]

We don't even completely understand how our own bodies work yet. We don't even know for sure why we yawn. Think about that - millions of people yawn every second, and we still don't know why it happens and what purpose it serves.

Yep, and .........this still gives no closure to understanding gravity and/or using it to prove a globe earth.. it's a moot discussion.

 

[JacksBratt]

Knowledge is an acquired thing. We have acquired the knowledge of the physics of fire ... though I'm not sure many non-scientists could relate that knowledge.

We are in the process of acquiring knowledge about gravity. We can see and feel it's effects ... and we are currently seeking to understand its mechanism.

I agree... 100%. However, until we do understand it, it is a mystery. We cannot state that something, like yawning, is not a mystery if we don't understand it.

Same goes for gravity. We see it's affects, we use it and apply it, we accept it and factor it in when it is going to be a factor in our actions....We habitually function with this absolute.. but.... it's a mystery and describing it as a "force" or "tractor beam" that has all objects pulling each other together... well... that aspect is just something necessary of the earth is a globe and things are orbiting around the universe.. On a FE.. there is no need..

That's all I'm saying here... a "force" is necessary to keep the oceans on the earth on the ball... A concept of down being down, everywhere, is all that is needed for the FE.

 

[A_Thinker]

That's all I'm saying here... a "force" is necessary to keep the oceans on the earth on the ball... A concept of down being down, everywhere, is all that is needed for the FE.

We experience the same "pulling force" when we try to hold an anvil above the ground for any length of time. That's the same force that pulls the oceans to the surface of the earth.

"Down being down" means nothing. You can't define an "effect" by itself ...

 

[JacksBratt]

That's what Science does. If Science started with dogmatic statements (i.e. "there is no gravity"), ... we would never LEARN anything. And although it certainly is not the only thing we were put here to do, ... it is certain that God expects us to LEARN from what we see around us.

Again, I agree, science "should" not have dogmatic statements, and, for most things it does not. This is why we have discovered so many things. Men and women have studied phenomenon and did experiments and followed the bread crumbs to truth.

However, as I have said before, I am losing faith in this necessary functionality of science.

Oh, I still believe that the majority of useful science is still following this tried true and essential method. But, there is too much "empirical" science of concepts and assumptions that are put down on some chalkboard and men of like mind all stand around and slap each other on the back as confirm that they actually accomplished something. Meanwhile it is all speculation.

Also, there are, unfortunately, those that ignore anything that provides new direction to the trail of breadcrumbs that used to lead to the real truth. I am seeing this trend where the truth has already been "claimed" and any information or data that, even though it is measurable and repeatable and testable, is ridiculed, tossed out and ignored. All the while the presenter of this data is discredited and loses all funding or tenure. There are things that are taboo and are never breached in conversation... That is not going to get us anywhere.

 

[JacksBratt]

Jesus, Himself, made many observations from His experience of everyday life ...

"Behold the lilies, ... how they spin not, and yet ... are beautiful."

"The wind blows where it will ... and noone knows where it comes from ... or where it is going."

"A sower went forth to sow some seeds ... "

I.myself, have found correlation in the Bible as to our current understanding of the effect we call gravity ...

He [Jesus] is the image of the invisible God, the first-born of all creation; for in him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or authorities - all things were created through him and for him. He is before all things, and in him all things hold together. Colossians 1:15-17

This correlates with other Biblical statements refering to the Creation ...

For in him we live and move and have our being. Acts 17:28

I am familiar with this statement "in him all things hold together".

You can speculate what you want, and apply it to gravity, if that is your belief.

However, I like to apply this to yet another mystery... The God effect.

I don't know if you are aware of the mystery of how and why the protons and neutrons are held together in the nucleus of all atoms. Protons are of a positive charge and have mass. Neutrons are of no charge and, for all intents and purposes, have no mass.

So, why do they have such a strong attachment? What holds them together?

This is where "I" apply the "in Him, all things hold together" scripture to our universe.

I also firmly believe that when Jesus destroys our heaven and earth and creates the new heaven and earth.. all He has to do is remove that force, that God supplies, that holds every atom together and is necessary for our 3 dimensional universe to even exist. At that moment.... every atom in existence will come apart.

So, that's how I apply that verse. Not to gravity.

But, we are all entitled to our own views.

 

[JacksBratt]

We experience the same "pulling force" when we try to hold an anvil above the ground for any length of time. That's the same force that pulls the oceans to the surface of the earth.

"Down being down" means nothing. You can't define an "effect" by itself ...

An anvil falling or wanting to fall down, as it always does, does not prove a pulling force.

Face it, you have no proof of a "pulling" force. Down is down and things fall.... down.

Like I have said before.. set two snooker balls on a polished stainless steel surface. Set them even 1/2 of a millimeter apart and they will stay that way. There is no attraction, no mysterious force that will pull them together..

I hear people say...well there is downward force and friction that keep them from coming together.. Nonsense.

Proportionately, this would be like putting the moon 100 miles from the earth.. and saying that they would not come together by this "mysterious" tractor beam like force that "pulls" everything in the universe together...

This is tantamount to saying that the force of gravity keeps the oceans on the earth, keeps the moon in orbit, keeps the earth in orbit, keeps our atmosphere on the earth... all of this.. but not once, outside the "concept" of being a mysterious force.. is it ever tested, observed and repeated on a lab scale...It is measured, observed, on a universal scale and totally not understood

 

[lasthero]

That's all I'm saying here... a "force" is necessary to keep the oceans on the earth on the ball... A concept of down being down, everywhere, is all that is needed for the FE.

If down is just down, then objects should weigh the same regardless of where they are on the planet. This isn't the case. As you go higher, objects weigh less. As you go towards the equator, objects weigh less. These are simple observations that anyone with a sensitive enough scale can make.

We understand gravity well enough to know why this happens. What does the 'flat earth model' say?

 

[JacksBratt]

You misunderstand him. For gravity within the solar system, 100% of the mass is clearly visible.

Maybe I did misunderstand him.. What he is actually saying is that the gravity of this universe is far greater than should be there. When you add up all the mass.. it accounts for a fraction of the gravity that we observe.

Either way... we are still 96% in the dark as to gravity.

Here is another video of him saying the same thing.. go to the 2:30 mark.

 

[JacksBratt]

If down is just down, then objects should weigh the same regardless of where they are on the planet. This isn't the case. As you go higher, objects weigh less. As you go towards the equator, objects weigh less. These are simple observations that anyone with a sensitive enough scale can make.

We understand gravity well enough to know why this happens. What does the 'flat earth model' say?

No.... density.. not mass.

 

[lasthero]

No.... density.. not mass.

I'm not sure what you mean, and it doesn't answer my question.

Why do objects change weight depending on their position on the planet?