The Bible's Laws on Divorce and Remarriage.

YeshuaFan

Well-Known Member
Oct 19, 2018
3,003
996
63
Macomb
✟56,324.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
They probably were never saved.
So why stop at divorce and remarriage? What about the person who was really saved, had the Holy Spirit, and at the Wedding ceremony had too many drinks, and for first time in life drove drunk and ended up killing someone, lost salvation?
 
  • Agree
Reactions: Celticroots
Upvote 0

Bible Highlighter

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.
Supporter
Jul 22, 2014
41,433
7,859
...
✟1,187,903.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
My Bible states that the blood of Jesus cleanses from all sin, and once saved and sealed, God Himself will make sure that we will NEVER lose eternal life, so how can you say this?

So a believer can be a pot smoking murdering rapist and child abuser and still be saved while doing such sins?
 
Upvote 0

YeshuaFan

Well-Known Member
Oct 19, 2018
3,003
996
63
Macomb
✟56,324.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
So a believer can be a pot smoking murdering rapist and child abuser and still be saved while doing such sins?
What I am saying is that if a Christian divorces and remarries, and both confess to god sinned by divorcing, but want Him to bless this new relationship, is Not God into the restoration process?
 
Upvote 0

Vicomte13

Well-Known Member
Jan 6, 2016
3,655
1,816
Westport, Connecticut
✟93,837.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
So the person who was divorced by her husband, who decided to remarry a godly man, will be in risk of hell at Judgment day by some posting here?
Yes, you are reading correctly.
They read the Scriptures literally to say that.
I certainly can follow their logic.

Fortunately, Scripture is full of conflicts with itself all over the place, and there is greater hope for her if one follows a different path of logic.

Few Christians are up to admitting that those conflicts in Scripture that provide very different paths to different outcomes actually insist. Instead they insist (dishonestly) that Scripture "does not conflict" and that (of course) they way they choose to read it is the "right" way, while that other path is "twisting Scripture". And the opposite side retorts saying the same thing.

I note that there are multiple logic paths through the text, without twisting it, and that it conflicts, so one can choose to find comfort, or one can choose to find condemnation, depending on how one choses to judge things.

And I note that Jesus suggested no less, when he said that those who judge with mercy will be judged with mercy, while those who judge mercilessly will be judged without mercy.

Therefore, given the choice between reading things strictly and harshly, and reading them leniently and in ways that forgive and let people off the hook, I strongly advise people to do the latter. Given the choice to judge with mercy or with strictness, choose the standard by which you would choose to be judged. Jesus gave us each that choice. He did not say "You shall be judged by one harsh standard" - Christians say that, stupidly. Jesus said "You will be measured by the measure by which you measured." He also said that to the extent you forgive others their sins, God will forgive you yours, but to the extent you do not forgive, neither shall God forgive you your sins.

So, when you read through these wrangling, squabbling Christians, each crowing that his own personal interpretation is correct and all the others are "twisting Scripture" or "the reasoning of man", remember that right in the text Jesus SAID that you ultimately CHOOSE how you judge and how you forgive, and WHAT you choose to use as your standard for judging and forgiving others is THE VERY STANDARD that God will use to judge you.

Remember that and hold fast to it, because it the way OUT of the quicksand of Christian bickering. As long as you are compassionate and understanding of divorcees who remarry, and do not judge them as unforgiveable adulterers and adulteresses, even though they ARE adulteresses and adulterers under the standard, God forgives every manner of adultery to those who themselves forgive.

So, if you're and adulteress and you forgive and do not judge, you're not going to be thrown into the fire for adultery either. But if you're a remarried divorcee who judges sternly and strictly and harshly, because "God said..." then you are an adulteress who will not be forgiven your adultery either, because you'll be judged by the judgment by which you judged.

Jesus was pretty clear about that. You choose your own standard of final judgment: the way you live is the way you'll die, and the way you judge is the way you will be judged. So live mercifully and with tons of forgiveness, and don't worry about being an adulteress - you let others off the hook for the complex and miserable situation of the abused and divorced and remarried woman, and Jesus will do the same for you when you are judged by him. You choose the standard. Just like Jesus said.

That's really good news.
 
Upvote 0

Vicomte13

Well-Known Member
Jan 6, 2016
3,655
1,816
Westport, Connecticut
✟93,837.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Yes, Jesus warned about sexual lusting after a woman can cause a person to be cast bodily into hell fire (Matthew 5:28-30). Yes, Revelation 21:8 says all liars will be cast into the Lake of Fire. Yes, Jesus condemned the Pharisees for being hypocrites (Matthew 23:3). Jesus said our righteousness must exceed the righteousness of the Scribes and Pharisees or we will not enter the Kingdom of Heaven (Matthew 5:20). A person can seek God's forgiveness over sin with the Lord Jesus Christ and be forgiven (1 John 1:9) (1 John 2:1), but they have to stop sinning after that (1 John 1:7) (Also see: Proverbs 28:13).

Well, that's one standard of judgment, one path through the Scriptures that produces a merciless outcome that few if any will live up to. Those who choose that standard of judgment are those who never experienced a life disaster like divorce.

There are other paths through Scripture that come to different conclusions.

Jesus promised that you'll be measured by the measure by which you measured, so if you're on the bad side of disaster, you'll choose the more lenient path.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: gordonhooker
Upvote 0

Vicomte13

Well-Known Member
Jan 6, 2016
3,655
1,816
Westport, Connecticut
✟93,837.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
So a believer can be a pot smoking murdering rapist and child abuser and still be saved while doing such sins?
Not sure why pot-smoking is in that list. Murder is murder. Rape is inappropriate contenteia. Pot-smoking is...using the plants God gave us and breaking the civil law, but not a deadly sin.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: gordonhooker
Upvote 0

paul becke

Regular Member
Supporter
Jul 12, 2003
4,011
814
83
Edinburgh, Scotland.
✟205,214.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Politics
UK-Labour
Sometimes I may not like what God's Word says, but I would rather be obedient to His Word than to have to face God being upset with me at the Judgment. I would rather play it safe and teach only what His Word says.

Are you saying that the merits won for you by Jesus' passion and cruifixion are not necessary ? That you can keep the Law and assuredly will. It's a matter of obedience, etc ?
 
Upvote 0

Strong in Him

Great is thy faithfulness
Supporter
Mar 4, 2005
27,773
7,919
NW England
✟1,041,799.00
Country
United Kingdom
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Jesus says clearly that the rule of exception for divorce is unfaithfulness (fornication).

Whosoever shall put away his wife, except for the cause of fornication, causes her to commit adultery (Matthew 5:32).​

But in those days, adultery was punishable by stoning, so what would they have understood his words to mean?
The woman who was caught in adultery, they didn't say to her husband, "well we have proof of her unfaithfulness, we will allow your divorce"; they dragged her out to stone her to death. If any other man had accused his wife of adultery and had proof, she would have suffered the same fate.
Until the angel appeared to Joseph, he was going to divorce Mary because he did not want her to be disgraced when it was known that she was pregnant, Matthew 1:19.
Because they understood that adultery was punishable by death, I am certain they would have understood Jesus' words to mean that divorce is not good at all. And he said this, because they commented that Moses had allowed men to write their wives a note of divorce - treating it casually; ending a marriage, and dismissing their wives, by leaving a note on the table. It should not be like this, Jesus said - God made men and women in the beginning, put them together and intended for them to be one flesh.
He is telling the men to treat marriage seriously and not as if their wives are property to be discarded when they wish.

Also, a marriage is not dissolved lawfully in God's eyes until the other spouse dies (See Romans 7:2).

Maybe.
What if a couple divorce, live apart and neither remarry though?

A person cannot remarry unless the other spouse is dead. Paul says that even in matters of unfaithfulness or divorce, they are to remain single or they are to reconcile with their spouse.

The thing is that the Bible doesn't address some of the scenarios we can have today, so what are we to do, or say, in those situations?
What of violence within a marriage?
What if one half of the couple starts using drugs or alcohol - and gets them into debt to pay for their habit?
What if one, or both, people have made vows before God but don't actually believe in him or mean them?
What if one turns to another faith and rejects God?
What if a man walks out on his wife for his mistress, and 5 years later wants a divorce, which (in the UK at least) he could do without her consent? Does the woman have to remain single, never look for, or enter into, a loving relationship again because of something that was not her doing or her will?

Do we tell people that God expects them to endure violence, rape, bad treatment, broken vows, debt etc forever, because they made a mistake and married someone who was, or became, the wrong person? How does that speak of a God who IS love? How does that encourage people to want to know, and worship, him?
We can't say what the Bible teaches in these scenarios, because it doesn't.
 
Upvote 0

Bible Highlighter

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.
Supporter
Jul 22, 2014
41,433
7,859
...
✟1,187,903.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Are you saying that the merits won for you by Jesus' passion and cruifixion are not necessary ? That you can keep the Law and assuredly will. It's a matter of obedience, etc ?

This is an odd view to have coming from a Catholic. Catholics believe in faith + works as a part of salvation. Granted, I do not believe in Catholicism, it is just that your view of Soteriology is not in line with them (Unless there is a liberal branch of Catholicism I am unaware of).
 
Upvote 0

Greg Merrill

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Apr 5, 2017
3,536
4,621
70
Las Vegas
✟319,724.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
I don't think the Bible gives any reason for divorce. People misinterpret the Bible and think it gives a reason for divorce. No reason for divorce is given in Matthew 5:32.
It say that the person divorcing his wife causes her to commit adultery. But if she is already committing fornication, then if the husband divorces her he is not causing her to commit fornication, she is already doing or has done that.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

NeedyFollower

Well-Known Member
Feb 29, 2016
1,024
437
63
N Carolina
✟71,145.00
Faith
Anabaptist
Marital Status
Celibate
I think Paul makes the only other exception:

1 Corinthians 7:15

But if the unbelieving depart, let him depart. A brother or a sister is not under bondage in such cases: but God hath called us to peace.

I would consider not being under bondage in meaning that they don't need to attempt to reconcile. It's better for them to stay unmarried or find a Christian spouse.

Otherwise you are correct, there is no other reason to divorce except because of marital unfaithfulness. There is also nothing to say that you have to get divorced either. You could choose to forgive and reconcile as well.
Well Paul does say that he says this and not the Lord although he does have the mind of the Lord ..but previously in 1st corinthians 7:11 Paul says that the Lord instructs us not to separate but if we do , we must remain unmarried or be reconciled . Again Paul says that this is the Lord's command .
It seems to me anyway in reading all of Paul's writings that Paul's first concern was the glory of God and the image of Christ as manifested by the church body . He did not speak out against slavery per se ( because it would have caused insurrection in society to the detriment of the fledgling church ) and while he demonstrated compassion and mercy , the individual was not the emphasis . Today however ..it appears that the individual is more important than God's image . Spouses separated in the early church remained single in order to demonstrate faithfulness . And if God is not faithful , what hope do we have ? Where is that image today in the church with a divorce and remarriage rate similar as the world ? It is no wonder that unbelievers see no difference in our lives than theirs . Christ demonstrated faithfulness but at a cost . I believe the gospel is for us but about God ...there is a very subtle ( but deceptive ) shift when we make the gospel about US and for God. This is humanism with a christian cloak .
 
Upvote 0

Lost4words

Jesus I Trust In You
Supporter
May 19, 2018
10,946
11,698
Neath
✟1,002,560.00
Country
United Kingdom
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Single
God is mercy and love. We are all individual. God will judge us as such. Many of the teachings by Jesus were not written down. The Bible is a guide book. The Holy Spirit is not bound when the book is closed shut. Everything in the Bible is not black and white.
 
Upvote 0

sparow

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Oct 7, 2014
2,540
426
85
✟482,162.00
Country
Australia
Faith
Protestant
Marital Status
Single
What about someone who is married to a violent wife beater?


Matthew 5:32 (NKJV)
32 But I say to you that whoever divorces his wife for any reason except sexual immorality causes her to commit adultery; and whoever marries a woman who is divorced commits adultery.

I think what the scripture is talking about is different to what we call divorce. Divorced or not the woman is committed for life and may not remarry but she could separate herself from a violent marriage.
 
Upvote 0

Brightmoon

Apes and humans are all in family Hominidae.
Mar 2, 2018
6,297
5,539
NYC
✟151,950.00
Country
United States
Faith
Episcopalian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
Forcing a woman to remain tied to a narcissistic violent man is sadism . Even if physically separated or divorced he’s going to cause her problems . I still say the best solution is to kick that trash to the curb with the rest of the garbage and if she wants, to get a better relationship . A piece of paper isn’t more important than a healthy mind or body . PTSD is not good for you
 
Upvote 0

Neogaia777

Old Soul
Supporter
Oct 10, 2011
23,277
5,237
45
Oregon
✟952,787.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Celibate
So a believer can be a pot smoking murdering rapist and child abuser and still be saved while doing such sins?
A person "could have been one", and since were all at different stages and ages...?

Well,

God Bless!
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Presbyterian Continuist

Senior Veteran
Supporter
Mar 28, 2005
21,810
10,792
76
Christchurch New Zealand
Visit site
✟827,333.00
Country
New Zealand
Faith
Charismatic
Marital Status
Married
Restraining orders are violated frequently. I was speaking of extreme and deadly circumstances. Many under this kind of deadly threat where the spouse is bound and determined to kill the hunted one and/or their children and has already attempted to, has broken into where the hunted spouse and children are living (even in safe shelters), and has a repeated pattern of this. Many have had to change their names, and go into hiding which is akin to witness protection. In those extreme circumstances, divorce is necessary as an added means of protection. Yes, it's that bad.

No one who is forced to flee and hide from this horror is "sinning" in divorcing.
I was a victim advisor for the New Zealand Ministry of Justice for 10 years. In all that time, I did not see one violent offender reformed. Many judges thought anger management programmes were a joke, where the offender sat down the back and smoked but did not engage,
In my time there were at least two brutal murders of victims by violent partners. One of these victims was a client of mine.
 
  • Winner
Reactions: brinny
Upvote 0

ColoRaydo

Active Member
Feb 9, 2017
148
174
57
Colorado
✟33,572.00
Faith
Lutheran
Marital Status
Married
My Bible states that the blood of Jesus cleanses from all sin, and once saved and sealed, God Himself will make sure that we will NEVER lose eternal life, so how can you say this?

It’s because some of these people don’t believe they are sinners. One of them told me directly that they no longer sin at all.

They come up with new unpardonable sins in addition to the only unpardonable sin mentioned in the Bible. They come up with “super sins” like divorce and remarriage. They decide what God will and won’t forgive.

They don’t care if you love God and your neighbor, if you happen to sin and don’t repent before death you are going to hell.

In their opinion YOUR salvation is at risk everyday. It’s not up to Jesus’ sacrifice, it’s up to merit. A merit which they have obtained.

Suggesting a wife should die from abuse rather than get a divorce? That’s a brave statement coming from an unmarried man.
 
Upvote 0

Presbyterian Continuist

Senior Veteran
Supporter
Mar 28, 2005
21,810
10,792
76
Christchurch New Zealand
Visit site
✟827,333.00
Country
New Zealand
Faith
Charismatic
Marital Status
Married
Instead of quoting Scriptures out of context and trying to apply them to all situations, just apply a bit of hermeneutics 101 and look at the context - who Jesus was talking to and the culture, and why He said what he said. Jesus was talking to unconverted Jewish religious leaders. He was not speaking to the common people when He spoke about divorce. He was explaining it in the context that our righteousness has to exceed that of the Pharisees if we are to be part of the kingdom of God. And that righteousness does not consist in keeping the Law.

Paul spoke to the Corinthians about divorce to counter the trend of men putting away their wives because it was thought that marriage hindered their relationship with God and that the single life was more spiritual. This was a big problem in the Corinthian church and the idea stayed with areas of the church and ended up forming the celibacy rules for Catholic priests.

I think it is a bad habit and misleading to quote Scripture out of its natural context and make up a hard and fast rule for everyone. Jesus was not writing a rule book for Christian marriage and who to do if things went wrong in that marriage. Nor did Paul. There is no teaching about divorce in any of Paul's letters to the other churches, and just because of that, it doesn't mean that divorces for all sorts of reasons were occurring.

Some churches in the way they deal with divorced and remarried members is cruel, unjust, and lacks the spirit of Christ. Genuinely converted Christians don't do things like that.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Presbyterian Continuist

Senior Veteran
Supporter
Mar 28, 2005
21,810
10,792
76
Christchurch New Zealand
Visit site
✟827,333.00
Country
New Zealand
Faith
Charismatic
Marital Status
Married
It’s because some of these people don’t believe they are sinners. One of them told me directly that they no longer sin at all.

They come up with new unpardonable sins in addition to the only unpardonable sin mentioned in the Bible. They come up with “super sins” like divorce and remarriage. They decide what God will and won’t forgive.

They don’t care if you love God and your neighbor, if you happen to sin and don’t repent before death you are going to hell.

In their opinion YOUR salvation is at risk everyday. It’s not up to Jesus’ sacrifice, it’s up to merit. A merit which they have obtained.

Suggesting a wife should die from abuse rather than get a divorce? That’s a brave statement coming from an unmarried man.
God is always a God of second chances. The problem with those who condemn divorce and make divorced members suffer because of a couple of Scriptures rendered out of context, is that they depart from the fruit of the Spirit and the spirit of Christ by adding to the suffering that happens when a marriage breaks up. People who do that are just religious hypocrites and not genuine Christians at all.

Divorce for the victim is a horrendous experience. It is worse that a bereavement because there is the issue of rejection, as well as loss of a relationship, home, contents, children, and ministry. It is a life-destroying experience.

For this reason professing Christians who discriminate against divorced members, refusing fellowship, sidelining them, pushing them out of their church, giving them condemnation "bombs", are hard-hearted, hypocrites who have no compassion for suffering people. I wouldn't give people like that the time of day, and I wouldn't cross the road to hear a preacher or pastor like that.
 
Upvote 0