Pneuma3

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Ok, well im done conversating about universalism. Its not biblical and its quite dangerous to spread. Keep the focus on Christ and let him be the judge. Who cares about the rest

Me and Jesus care about the rest. Jesus died for them, he loves them and cares for them so we should also.
 
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Well this is a Psalm and it is also translated as love or loving kindness. I wasn't being a smart aleck. Was just curious for examples either via a Christ or the apostles. An example where they talk about an everlasting mercy. I have no doubts that God has mercy built into his character, that much is obvious, but I do have doubts as this relates to individuals after the judgement.
 
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Lazarus Short

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Do you have a verse on mercy enduring forever? Mercy is generally something you give to people when there is a show of repentance. The wrench in this whole thing is that uni assumes there is an ability to repent after death. This topic is insanely debatable, so I take the stance that it is a moral injustice to act as if it repentance post death is a guarantee. It is essentially a licence to do whatever you want whenever you want and it'll all work out. It tosses out the entire need for the process of sanctification and bearing of the cross. Why would Jesus even bother telling the apostles to go and make disciples if this life was virtually pointless? Almost all of his ministry talked about a cleansing of the self. Why bother? Fortunately, this topic is not a pillar of the faith so we can have opposing positions on it, but seriously imo its a dangerous position that uni has taken and only offers a watered down version of Christianity that is most assuredly no true.

Whereas...the Hell doctrine drives multitudes away from Jesus the Christ, from His Father and from the Church. Do you care to tell me it does not?
 
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Whereas...the Hell doctrine drives multitudes away from Jesus the Christ, from His Father and from the Church. Do you care to tell me it does not?
It does not drive multitudes away. Regardless, the universalist theology does not benefit a single soul. It simply advocates a life of selfishness where God is not needed one iota.
 
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Lazarus Short

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It does not drive multitudes away. Regardless, the universalist theology does not benefit a single soul. It simply advocates a life of selfishness where God is not needed one iota.

In my experience, it does. Anyway, this Universalist (NOT UUA) needs God very much, and if you think I lead a life of selfishness, you are wrong.
 
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In my experience, it does. Anyway, this Universalist (NOT UUA) needs God very much, and if you think I lead a life of selfishness, you are wrong.
Im not saying any of the UUA followers are selfish. Im saying that it completely opens the door for it being acceptable. Why would anyone need God in their life if they can just wait for death? God requires many sacrifices from us and most of which, if not all, are very difficult. The flesh is very burdensome fellow and does not go down easy. Why bother with the struggle of sanctification at all if I can get it all after death at no cost? So I can have a bigger house than my neighbor in heaven?
 
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FineLinen

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Well this is a Psalm and it is also translated as love or loving kindness. I wasn't being a smart aleck. Was just curious for examples either via a Christ or the apostles. An example where they talk about an everlasting mercy. I have no doubts that God has mercy built into his character, that much is obvious, but I do have doubts as this relates to individuals after the judgement.

Dear Mr. Faith: My friend mercy is indeed built into His character, or His essence, LOVE/FIRE/SPIRIT/LIGHT & PROPITIATION.


The God-as-Judge viewpoint does not present a biblical picture of what divine justice is about at all, but is a legalistic perspective that comes from human culture.

Biblically, to “bring justice” does not mean to bring punishment, but to bring healing and reconciliation. Justice means to make things right. Throughout the Prophets justice is associated with caring for others, assomthing that is not in conflict with mercy, but rather an expression of it. Divine justice is God’s saving action at work for all that are oppressed, as the following verses demonstrate:

Learn to do right! Seek justice, encourage the oppressed. Defend the cause of the fatherless, plead the case of the widow (Isaiah 1:17).

Note what happens when one does right by seeking justice. The oppressed are encouraged and the helpless are helped.

This is what the LORD says: "`Administer justice every morning; rescue from the hand of his oppressor the one who has been robbed (Jeremiah 21:12). Justice is done when the oppressed is rescued.

This is what the LORD Almighty says: `Administer true justice: show mercy and compassion to one another (Zechariah 7:9). How does one administer true justice? By showing mercy and compassion to everybody involved.

Yet the LORD longs to be gracious to you; he rises to show you compassion. For the LORD is a God of justice (Isaiah 30:18). What is the reason our Lord wants to be gracious to us? Because He is just.

If we want to understand the concept of justice as the writers of the Old Testament did, then we must see it as a “setting things right again.” There is no conflict between God’s justice and His mercy. They both flow from His love…

- Steve McVey.-
 
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Dear Mr. Faith: My friend mercy is indeed built into His character, or His essence, LOVE/FIRE/SPIRIT/LIGHT & PROPITIATION.


The God-as-Judge viewpoint does not present a biblical picture of what divine justice is about at all, but is a legalistic perspective that comes from human culture.

Biblically, to “bring justice” does not mean to bring punishment, but to bring healing and reconciliation. Justice means to make things right. Throughout the Prophets justice is associated with caring for others, assomthing that is not in conflict with mercy, but rather an expression of it. Divine justice is God’s saving action at work for all that are oppressed, as the following verses demonstrate:

Learn to do right! Seek justice, encourage the oppressed. Defend the cause of the fatherless, plead the case of the widow (Isaiah 1:17).

Note what happens when one does right by seeking justice. The oppressed are encouraged and the helpless are helped.

This is what the LORD says: "`Administer justice every morning; rescue from the hand of his oppressor the one who has been robbed (Jeremiah 21:12). Justice is done when the oppressed is rescued.

This is what the LORD Almighty says: `Administer true justice: show mercy and compassion to one another (Zechariah 7:9). How does one administer true justice? By showing mercy and compassion to everybody involved.

Yet the LORD longs to be gracious to you; he rises to show you compassion. For the LORD is a God of justice (Isaiah 30:18). What is the reason our Lord wants to be gracious to us? Because He is just.

If we want to understand the concept of justice as the writers of the Old Testament did, then we must see it as a “setting things right again.” There is no conflict between God’s justice and His mercy. They both flow from His love…

- Steve McVey.-
We are in 100% agreement here. It appears the disagreement comes with the time line. Understand also that I am not advocating for or against an eternal hell. I am simply saying we cant know for sure, so its better to simply play it safe. A pascals wager of sorts. I am also saying its better push doctrines aside and focus on Christ and spread his message of loving one another while letting our self (sin nature) die. It is better to leave the unknown simply as the unknown than to try and figure out what God has planned. Matthew 6:34 comes to mind.
 
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FineLinen

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We are in 100% agreement here.

Dear Mr.Faith: Now F.L. is beginning to tremble: 40% agreement is about as good as my old broken frame can handle! My beloved wife (on whose life I freely wager) cleared up the situation clearly.

F.L. said=

"Everybody hates me."

Mrs. F.L. responded=

"Everybody has not met you yet."

Dear Faith: I will respond to the rest of your post later, if all my toes remain on this side of the Glory
 
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ClementofA

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God's mercy will be only upon those that love Him.
The wicked are as this - shall not enter into the kingdom of God.
shall not enter into the holy city
the wrath of God abideth on them
their names not found written in the book of life
knock =but can never enter -the door is shut that leads to life

Mercy will triumph over judgement (see Js. 2:13).

IOW mercy wins. Judgement loses.

Love, therefore, will conquer all.

For the Lord will NOT cast off FOR EVER:
 
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ClementofA

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It does not drive multitudes away. Regardless, the universalist theology does not benefit a single soul. It simply advocates a life of selfishness where God is not needed one iota.

You are mistaken. Biblical Universalism advocates a Just God, Love Omnipotent, who is worthy of all worship and praise. Not an unjust sadistic God who punishes or tortures billions for infinite eons for the sins of a finite life of a few years or decades.

If endless conscious torments were true, is God a monster?
 
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Der Alte

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<Jas>So I am just going to accept what you say in the Greek? No thanks. I can read my English Bible just fine (that was translated from the Greek). I also made some great points that you are not really addressing, either. You are just posting a bunch of Greek. I don't know Biblical Greek, and I am pretty sure you don't, either. For you did not grow up in Bible times. Moving on from this conversation.
May God bless you
.<end>
Nice copout! You make a post lecturing me and others what Greek words supposedly mean but when proven wrong you bug out. I didn't ask you to accept what I said. Unlike you I identified my source for Greek, i.e. BDAG, and Hebrew, i.e. BDB and even provided a link and information so those sources could be verified.
.....About me knowing Biblical Greek. I started learning to speak Greek in Germany the year of Sputnik 1 and studied both Biblical languages at the graduate level about 2 decades after that. Funny how some folks that could not parse or conjugate a Greek verb if their life depended on it pretend they know something about Greek.
.....There happens to be a nation whose language has been Greek since before 225 BC. Do you assume that the nation of Greece does not know anything about the history of the Greek language? And since the Greeks know the history of their own language the rest of the world has access to that knowledge.
.....As I said in my previous post αἰών/aiōn and αἰώνιος/aiōnios are used to refer to things that are not eternal but are never defined as in the 23 verses I listed above.
 
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Pneuma3

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I don’t see anything different in this translation my friend. These people still do not enter heaven.

“and every one whoever shall say a word to the Son of Man, it shall be forgiven to him, but to him who to the Holy Spirit did speak evil, it shall not be forgiven.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭12:10‬ ‭YLT1898‬‬
Luke 12:10 and every one whoever shall say a word to the Son of Man, it shall be forgiven to him, but to him who to the Holy Spirit did speak evil, it shall not be forgiven. | Young's Literal Translation 3rd Revision 1898 (YLT1898) | Download The Bible App Now

Now read the same parallel passage in mark.

but whoever may speak evil in regard to the Holy Spirit hath not forgiveness -- to the age, but is in danger of age-during judgment;'

There is a huge difference between never being forgiven and not being forgiven to the age
 
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ClementofA

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Why would anyone need God in their life if they can just wait for death?

In Biblical Universalism there is a "hell" to avoid. If you "wait for death" & die in your sins, you'll go to "hell".

Don't you think the demon possessed people Jesus set free needed Him? Or the sick, maimed, lepers, etc, He healed? How about the woman caught in adultery? Or those under the legalistic burdens of the Pharisees (who BTW believed in eternal torments)?

Why do you need God in your life? Just as a selfish fire insurance policy? Not because you truly hate sin & what your sins do to others?

Why bother with the struggle of sanctification at all if I can get it all after death at no cost?

Actually after death in "hell" it will cost you a lot more. Jesus considers such to be fools.
 
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