How Messed Up Are People?

How Messed Up Are People

  • Totally Messed Up (Augustine, Calvin)

    Votes: 15 55.6%
  • Partly Messed Up (Catholicism, Arminianism)

    Votes: 10 37.0%
  • Not Messed Up (Pelagius, Liberal Christianity)

    Votes: 2 7.4%

  • Total voters
    27

Tree of Life

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A good man brings good things out of the good stored up in his heart, and an evil man brings evil things out of the evil stored up in his heart.
Mt 12:35

Now there was a man named Joseph, a member of the Council, a good and upright man

Lk 23:50

He was a good man, full of the Holy Spirit and faith, and a great number of people were brought to the Lord.
Acts 11:24

The backslider in heart will have his fill of his own ways, But a good man will be satisfied with his.
Proverb 14:14
Mark 10:18 - And Jesus said to him, “Why do you call me good? No one is good except God alone.

Romans 3:10-12 - as it is written: “None is righteous, no, not one; no one understands; no one seeks for God. All have turned aside; together they have become worthless; no one does good, not even one.”
 
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trophy33

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Yuck! Go away gnosticism!
"Those who live according to the flesh have their minds set on what the flesh desires; but those who live in accordance with the Spirit have their minds set on what the Spirit desires."
R 8:5

"For the flesh desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the flesh. They are in conflict with each other"
Gal 5:17

"Whoever sows to please their flesh, from the flesh will reap destruction; whoever sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life."
Gal 6:8

Therefore, brothers, we have an obligation, but it is not to the flesh, to live according to it.
R 8:12
 
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trophy33

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Mark 10:18 - And Jesus said to him, “Why do you call me good? No one is good except God alone.

Romans 3:10-12 - as it is written: “None is righteous, no, not one; no one understands; no one seeks for God. All have turned aside; together they have become worthless; no one does good, not even one.”
So, we are playing cards with verses or what...?:scratch:
 
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Tree of Life

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"Those who live according to the flesh have their minds set on what the flesh desires; but those who live in accordance with the Spirit have their minds set on what the Spirit desires."
R 8:5

"For the flesh desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the flesh. They are in conflict with each other"
Gal 5:17

"Whoever sows to please their flesh, from the flesh will reap destruction; whoever sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life."
Gal 6:8

Therefore, brothers, we have an obligation, but it is not to the flesh, to live according to it.
R 8:12

There is a difference between sarx and soma.
 
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trophy33

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The Bible.

Not all flesh is the same, but indeed one flesh [sarx] is of men, and another flesh [sarx] is of beasts, and another flesh [sarx] is of birds, and another is of fish .
1 Cor 15:39

So, birds, beasts and fish have fallen human nature... ?

:scratch:
 
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Tree of Life

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Not all flesh is the same, but indeed one flesh [sarx] is of men, and another flesh [sarx] is of beasts, and another flesh [sarx] is of birds, and another is of fish .
1 Cor 15:39

So, birds, beasts and fish have fallen human nature... ?

:scratch:

Sarx is sometimes used to refer simply to "flesh". But its dominant theological meaning is "sinful disposition that hates God." It should not be identified with the human body in a one-to-one way.
 
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Albion

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If not, then we cannot be totally messed up. Only sort of messed up. Which do you say?
Well, part of the problem is that "Messed up" is rather messy as a description. But what I meant by my reply is that it is possible that mankind fell totally, thanks to A&E, but had the theoretical possibility of being justified in God's eyes so long as the Law was adhered to.
 
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Tree of Life

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Well, part of the problem is that "Messed up" is rather messy as a description. But what I meant by my reply is that it is possible that mankind fell totally, thanks to A&E, but had the theoretical possibility of being justified in God's eyes so long as the Law was adhered to.

Yes I believe the Bible teaches this. If any human could, in theory, obey the Law then they would be justified by their works. But this does not at all imply that humans are existentially able to do this. Sin has totally disabled them, even though the theory remains.
 
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Tree of Life

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The Word became flesh [sarx]...
J 1:14

Yes, flesh is used in various ways. Sometimes it refers to a body. Sometimes it refers to a person. But the dominant theological category is that it refers to a sinful disposition which hates God. The context would determine the meaning. In this context it means humanity. But in your previous contexts in post #22 it means sinful disposition.
 
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trophy33

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Yes, flesh is used in various ways. Sometimes it refers to a body. Sometimes it refers to a person. But the dominant theological category is that it refers to a sinful disposition which hates God. The context would determine the meaning. In this context it means humanity. But in your previous contexts in post #22 it means sinful disposition.

Or, it means still the same thing, i.e. our body.
 
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RDKirk

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I think we have sinful inclinations because of our bodies and because of the world we are growing up in.

But our will must say "yes" to it, for it to be a sin.

If our bodies incline us to sin, then that starts at birth before we even have consciousness of our actions. We begin saying "yes" to our flesh from the moment we cry at the first discomfort of our first breath.
 
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