One of the most controversial issues, is the DAY OF WORSHIP

[klutedavid]

Sexual immorality is not in the 10 commandments---just adultery.

That the point I am making!

Sex outside of marriage is condemned by God, but is not mentioned in the 10.

Every legalist I have ever spoken to says the command, to not commit adultery, includes all sexual sin.

We have understand that the 10 are an expression of the character of God. God is love. Every aspect of the 10 deals in love--our love for God is shown by the 1st 4, the love for others is shown by the last 6. To reject sany of them is to reject love whih is to reject God.
Where is the verse

You have that in reverse.

The ten commandments are warnings about bad behavior. The ten commandments tell us nothing about the love of God, they are all prohibitions.

Christ tells you what love is all about by His crucifixion. Whereas, the law delivers a conviction of sin and judgement, the law gives you a knowledge of sin. The law rescued no one, the law promotes fear and dread.

 

[mmksparbud]

That the point I am making!

Every legalist I have ever spoken to says the command, to not commit adultery, includes all sexual sin.

You have that in reverse.

The ten commandments are warnings about bad behavior. The ten commandments tell us nothing about the love of God, they are all prohibitions.

Christ tells you what love is all about by His crucifixion. Whereas, the law delivers a conviction of sin and judgement, the law gives you a knowledge of sin. The law rescued no one, the law promotes fear and dread.

Well, --I am not a legalist. No, the law is merely a mirror that reflects the dirt--sin-- of your life--Jesus blood is what washed away the sin, not the mirror. It is the broken relationship between God and man--the broken love relationship--that Jesus gave His life to repair. That is why throughout the bible, God refers to His people as His bride, mostly to an adulterous wife. If we do none of what the 10 say to not do---love is the end result and love is what is reflected back and love is why we, through the love of Christ, keep them.

Where is that verse you keep ignoring??

 

[gordonhooker]

The point is simply that the mention of 'circumcision' in the text (Acts 15) is not talking so much about the physical rite. The term 'circumcised' is a general term used through the New Testament to refer to the Jews.

When the Pharisees state,“Unless you are circumcised according to the custom of Moses, you cannot be saved.” They are actually saying that Gentiles must adhere to the law as Christians to be saved.

This claim made by the Pharisees is what the apostles disagreed with, the apostles actually prove that Gentiles are not under the law. By telling the Gentiles to abstain from sexual immorality and this is the point.

If the Gentiles were under the law, then the Gentiles would not need to be told to abstain from sexual immorality. Because sexual immorality is directly covered within the law.

If the Pharisees were only claiming the physical act of circumcision, then the reply by the apostles. Would have been that the Gentiles or the uncircumcised are not required to be circumcised. We read in plain English that the apostles gave four commands for the Gentiles, to follow and not the law!

Thanks but we will have to agree to disagree in that case, that and the other Jewish Law requirements is exactly what Acts 15 is about.

 

[ace of hearts]

They didn’t believe and were disobedient because of their unbelief. Faith and obedience go hand in hand. Unbelief and disobedience go hand in hand.

Actually, Abraham was VERY obedient. Abraham’s faith produced obedience.

Genesis 26:4-5 NIV

Yes, that is why he lied.

 

[ace of hearts]

Can you please show where people who are disobedient to God’s commands are allowed to enter to His rest?

Noah and Abraham if you're thinking of obedience to the law or calling their recorded acts sin.

 

[ace of hearts]

Please post the verse I asked for----several times now ---in post #96. I stand on this.

Which is...
Why aren't you responding to the verses I already quoted?

 

[ace of hearts]

He didn't just debate the Jews. He preached to the Gentiles on the Sabbath, never once asking them to come back on Sunday. Doesn't say he worshiped on Sunday. What do you call worship? What do you think was done in the temple? It was for prayers and the reading of His word, talking about His word--spending time with God---that is worship.

Worship has nothing to do with proof of keeping the sabbath.

 

[ace of hearts]

Circumcision is circumcision. Circumcision is not one of the 10 commandments--it is never mentioned.

NTL it is a commandment (law) given to Israel. But which version doesn't mention circumcision in Acts 15? It sticks out like a sore thumb in verse 5.

 

[ace of hearts]

Sexual immorality is not in the 10 commandments---just adultery. Sex outside of marriage is condemned by God, but is not mentioned in the 10.

We have understand that the 10 are an expression of the character of God. God is love. Every aspect of the 10 deals in love--our love for God is shown by the 1st 4, the love for others is shown by the last 6. To reject sany of them is to reject love whih is to reject God.
Where is the verse

I'd like to see adultery explained as within the bounds of marriage.

 

[ace of hearts]

Well, --I am not a legalist. No, the law is merely a mirror that reflects the dirt--sin-- of your life--Jesus blood is what washed away the sin, not the mirror. It is the broken relationship between God and man--the broken love relationship--that Jesus gave His life to repair. That is why throughout the bible, God refers to His people as His bride, mostly to an adulterous wife. If we do none of what the 10 say to not do---love is the end result and love is what is reflected back and love is why we, through the love of Christ, keep them.

Where is that verse you keep ignoring??

So why are you promoting worship on the sabbath so hard? Isn't it so you can be saved?

 

[ace of hearts]

Well, --I am not a legalist. No, the law is merely a mirror that reflects the dirt--sin-- of your life--Jesus blood is what washed away the sin, not the mirror. It is the broken relationship between God and man--the broken love relationship--that Jesus gave His life to repair. That is why throughout the bible, God refers to His people as His bride, mostly to an adulterous wife. If we do none of what the 10 say to not do---love is the end result and love is what is reflected back and love is why we, through the love of Christ, keep them.

Where is that verse you keep ignoring??

Israel is referred to as God's wife. The Bride (church) is always referred to as belonging to Jesus. The two are never interchanged in Scripture.

 

[mmksparbud]

I'd like to see adultery explained as within the bounds of marriage.

Adultery is specifically violating the marriage vows.

 

[mmksparbud]

Israel is referred to as God's wife. The Bride (church) is always referred to as belonging to Jesus. The two are never interchanged in Scripture.

True. And, Jesus was there right with Him. A wife is already married, a bride is getting married. We are getting ready to be married to Christ. The marriage ceremony is at the Marriage supper. Israel was an adulterous wife--we are sexually immoral---not yet married to Christ, going from lover to lover---church to church is how one person put it!

So why are you promoting worship on the sabbath so hard? Isn't it so you can be saved?

Promoting? I an stating my position on the posted statement by the OP---which is, it is a commandment of God--just as much as thou shalt not steal or any of the other 9 which if you break, without repenting, yo can not be saved----which takes us back to post #96---where I've asked for the verse that states we can be saved while knowingly sinning. Keeping the 10 can not save---breaking them can keep you from being saved. God sees the heart--motive.

NTL it is a commandment (law) given to Israel. But which version doesn't mention circumcision in Acts 15? It sticks out like a sore thumb in verse 5.

Circumcision was never a commandment it. It was in the law of Moses.

 

[bekkilyn]

Very simple---they feel they are led of the Holy Spirit. The same one that is leading you. They claim Jesus as the Son of God. This website says they are not Christian---and I do not disagree. The point is how do you determine what Spirit is leading. For me it is a thus saith the Lord. Scripture does not contradict itself. Scripture says the commandments are in force and we can not be unrepentant sinners and still be saved. Sin is the transgression of the law. If there is sin--there is law. Believe what you want---unless you show me a verse that state we can be unrepentant sinners and still be saved----the law is still there and only through Jesus can we keep from transgressing the law.

If Mormons are not Christian, then why would they be led by the same spirit as a Christian? So either you are claiming that I am also not Christian and thus led by the Mormon or some other spirit, or you are claiming that there is no difference between the Holy Spirit and non-Christian spirits.

Jesus did not come to earth to teach us how to be saved by doing a better job at observing the law.

A Christian is not breaking the law, so there is no unrepentant sin.

 

[ace of hearts]

Adultery is specifically violating the marriage vows.

This in no way shows how adultery can be committed within the bounds of marriage as I requested.

 

[bekkilyn]

Promoting? I an stating my position on the posted statement by the OP---which is, it is a commandment of God--just as much as thou shalt not steal or any of the other 9 which if you break, without repenting, yo can not be saved----which takes us back to post #96---where I've asked for the verse that states we can be saved while knowingly sinning. Keeping the 10 can not save---breaking them can keep you from being saved. God sees the heart--motive.

Which is a roundabout way of stating salvation by works (law). It's like you receive a coin every time you observe the old covenant sabbath, and then can use it in the salvation vending machine and out pops a ticket to heaven! But if you don't observe the old covenant sabbath, then you get no coins to use in the salvation machine, so no golden tickets!

 

[ace of hearts]

True. And, Jesus was there right with Him. A wife is already married, a bride is getting married. We are getting ready to be married to Christ. The marriage ceremony is at the Marriage supper. Israel was an adulterous wife--we are sexually immoral---not yet married to Christ, going from lover to lover---church to church is how one person put it!

I don't think you're really talking about Christians here. I think you're talking about religious people and specifically those trying to get their unworkable life together by manipulating God. Yes those people are sexually immoral when it comes to spiritual matters. They're seeking self, not God.

Jesus isn't going to marry His Father's adulterous wife.

God will take back His adulterous wife just like He told Hosea to do.

Promoting? I an stating my position on the posted statement by the OP---which is, it is a commandment of God--just as much as thou shalt not steal or any of the other 9 which if you break, without repenting, yo can not be saved----which takes us back to post #96---where I've asked for the verse that states we can be saved while knowingly sinning. Keeping the 10 can not save---breaking them can keep you from being saved. God sees the heart--motive.

To which I respond with we're no under (obligated) to that covenant (law). I've already quoted to you some appropriate passages.

Circumcision was never a commandment it. It was in the law of Moses.

Ex 12:48 is a law (commandment) required to participate in that covenant.

 

[Soyeong]

Where in the New Covenant (NT) is the command to keep the sabbath?

The disciples were Jews who grew up keeping the Sabbath, so they did not need to be taught to keep it and there was never a time when their week was not based around keeping the Sabbath. We shouldn't even need anything to be repeated in order for us to know that we should still obey God.

Jesus was sinless, so he lived in perfect obedience to the Mosaic Law, which means that he would have still taught full obedience to it by example even if he had said nothing, including keeping the Sabbath throughout his ministry, and as his followers we are told to follow his example (1 Peter 2:21-22), to walk in the same way he walked (1 John 2:3-6), and to be imitators of him (1 Corinthians 11:1). Furthermore, Jesus began his ministry with the Gospel message to repent from our sins for the Kingdom of God is at hand (Matthew 4:17, 23) and the Mosaic Law was how his audience knew what sin is, so repenting from our disobedience to it is an integral part of the Gospel message, including repenting from breaking the Sabbath. In addition, Jesus also taught how to keep the Sabbath through his interactions with the Pharisees on the topic, such as in Matthew 12:1-13.

In Acts 15:21, the expectation was that Gentiles would continue to learn about how to obey Moses by hearing him taught every Sabbath in the synagogues. In Colossians 2:16, they were keeping God's holy days in obedience to God's commands in accordance with what Christ taught by word and by example, they were being judged by those teaching human precepts and traditions, self-made religion, asceticism, and severity to the body (Colossians 2:20-23) and Paul was writing to encourage them not to let any man judge them and keep them from obeying God. In 1 Peter 1:13-16, we are told to have a holy conduct for God is holy, which is a quote from Leviticus where God was giving instructions for how to have a holy conduct, which straightforwardly includes keeping God's Sabbaths holy (Leviticus 19:2-3).

The Sabbath is a precious gift from God give to His people for our own good in order to bless us, so even if we weren't commanded to keep it, then we should seek out the privilege and the delight of getting to keep it.

I'm not fooled quite that easily.

It was klutedavid who was saying that legalism has nothing to do with tradition and I was quoting him to disagree with him, but my quote tags were off.

 

[Soyeong]

Please tell me why I've never felt a desire to observe the sabbath. Is it because I'm not a Christian? I claim to be a born again Christian in accordance with the Gospel of John. So why doesn't the Holy Spirit nudge me to keep the sabbath. Doesn't God love me or something? For your information I know about the sabbath by reading the Bible for years before coming to this site.

Our conscience is informed by the highest level or moral law that one believes. However, our conscience is not perfect because it is part of our human nature and is therefore also fallen. This is why Paul said in 1 Corinthians 4:3 that even though he was not aware of anything against himself he was not justified. Our conscience will never be the ultimate determiner of our spiritual condition, but it is all we have. Strengthened by grace and by the Holy Spirit it is still capable of warning us when out spiritual condition is in danger. Conscience is not the or the Law of God, but rather it is a mechanism of the human soul and to function properly it must have the right information. It is best served if it functions under the light of the highest, truest, and purest moral law found in the word of God. It functions as a skylight, not as a lamp, so it only lets light through, but doesn't produce light of its own. Its usefulness is determined by the amount of pure light passing through it. So a fully functioning conscience is fully informed by the truth of God's word. Holiness comes as the result of the process of the word of God informing the conscience and the conscience informing the person. In Romans 14, there are weak Christians whose conscience is not informed in a mature way, where their conscience won't let them do what they really would be free to do, so our conscience is not the same as God's Law. Someone's conscience can be so misinformed that their glory is in their shame (Philippians 3:19), where both their mind and their conscience is defiled (Titus 1:15).

So the first way to destroy the work of conscience is to misinform it where you don't give it the true Law of God and the second way is to silence it when it speaks. In 1 Timothy 4:2, Paul spoke about a wounded or seared conscience.

 

[liberty of conscience]

I've been told the sabbath is optional ...

May I ask, who specifically "told" this thing to you, and what was their background?