I am seeking some additional responses to an ongoing problem at my house.
I have a dear friend that I love so much and he has always talked with me about his views being Church of Christ and we would always banter back and forth playfully as I am a grace by faith believer.
However he decided to bring over a Dr friend of his that has memorized a bunch of scripture {A bunch} and is very "book" smart and a COC minister and they started a debate over my doctrine.
He straight up told me that I was a heretic because I do not believe that works save us. [I do not]
he stated that they are biblically mandatory as Naaman had to dip 7 times in the Jordan etc.
This has turned into an all out battle of the scriptures as they have came here three times now and we have spent much time going back and forth.
I keep telling them [simply] that at the death of Jesus a new testament began and the apostle Paul is the apostle to the gentiles and he brought about the mystery of salvation by Grace through Faith, Which was what God wanted all along. Was faith.
I was taught this in school and I also believe it with all my heart.
I see Romans 6:3,4 as a 'spiritual' baptism and they see it as 'water'.
This is only the very beginning of it all as also I don't attend the "one" true "church of Christ" so I am damned lol
Can you guys give me BOTH sides here and let us rightly divide the Word as stated 2 Tim.
Again I do not want another hard debate, Just some different viewpoints to look at.
Thanks guys.
Hi, first you may want to ask what is salvation. It means deliver..or protect, refuge.
And one can be delivered from many things.
My personal belief from 1 Peter 3;21 is that
Salvation is Christ's life
And one put into Christ is saved from passed trespasses and sins. As scripture says..
Yet is that the only saving that needs to be done? No for we must be saved from many different things in this life we live now.
And many scriptures are speaking of Now as we live in this world.
Well first whose faithfulness or faith are we saved by? We are saved through the faithfulness of Christ. Recall by grace are we saved through faith, but as I see it this faith is not of ourselves....why because we are given Christ's faithfulness as a gift from God.
His faithfulness is not by our works. For what He did was from love,God.
This is the Baptism that saves us now...Christ is our answer to a clear conscience before God...For I believe that He lives forever to intercede for those who come to Him. As stated in Hebrew.
Why? For We still need to be forgiven for future sins.
Recall Jesus came to destroy the works of the devil. They are destroyed as we put trust in Christ.
What were the effects of His work? Sin that separated us from God. But we are brought near by the blood of Christ where we can come to receive mercy in time of need.
So while works to earn salvation cannot be done...because Jesus finished the work out of Love. Works that come from or through depend on His faithfulness are fruit of having His Spirit.
Another words we purify ourselves by works that are from having a relationship through His faithfulness, His loving forever to intercede for us if we sin.
So this is how we are being transformed to the image of His son by walking in the spirit.
And walking in the spirit is works that come out of Christ being faithful to us. These are not works where at one time seem to be the source of salvation the Law. These are works that stem from Christ's faith, or faithfulness.
These works are a result of a relationship with Christ that changes the heart. Therefore as we walk in the spirit we have fellowship with one another and the blood of Jesus cleanses us from all sin. Since one then walks by the spirit, the righteous requirements of the law are met. As an example to what he says to the pharasees;to first make the inside of the cup clean that the outside may be clean as well.