The question cessationists must answer.

[Dave L]

That is what is generally seen in Christendom today but not what the Word declares.

It remains true unless you produce from scripture another means for distributing the gifts of the Spirit.

 

[Francis Drake]

They have NO power over a christian filled with the Holy Spirit, and walking in obedience to the scriptures!

I am sure we both agree that our bodies are the temple of the Lord, and the New Testament Temple parallels the OT temple, with the scriptures regularly drawing that comparison.

If you recall during periods of apostasy in the OT, they filled the temple with idols (demons). You should also know that this happened whilst the presence of the Lord was still in residence!
I am pointing this out to disprove the false theology behind the claim that demons cannot dwell in the same location that the spirit of the Lord also resides.
It also disproves the claim that Christians cannot have demons within them.
It also disproves the claim that once a person becomes a Christian, there is no need for deliverance because all the demons just have to flee.

And also to be clear, idols, whether wood or stone, have demons residing within them.
1Cor10v19What do I mean then? That a thing sacrificed to idols is anything, or that an idol is anything? v20No, but I say that the things which the Gentiles sacrifice, they sacrifice to demons and not to God; and I do not want you to become sharers in demons.

So lets look at how demons/idols shared the temple of the Lord in Jerusalem, just as they also share residence in a Christian's own body/temple.
2Kings21v7Manasseh even took the carved Asherah pole he had made and set it up in the temple, of which the LORD had said to David and his son Solomon, “In this temple and in Jerusalem, which I have chosen out of all the tribes of Israel I will establish My Name forever.
Here we see that when Manasseh installed his Asherah pole, he was also introducing demons to within the temple.

And on the occasion the Lord lifted him by the spirit from Babylon and took him on a tour of the Temple in Jerusalem, Ezekiel also reveals extensive demon worship within the temple
Ezekiel 8v Then He brought me to the entrance of the court, and when I looked, behold, a hole in the wall. He said to me, “Son of man, now dig through the wall.” So I dug through the wall, and behold, an entrance. And He said to me, “Go in and see the wicked abominations that they are committing here.”
Ezekiel has just arrived at the temple of the Lord, and is instructed to dig through the wall.

So I entered and looked, and behold, every form of creeping things and beasts and detestable things, with all the idols of the house of Israel, were carved on the wall all around.
At the very same time the presence of the Lord was resident on the temple, these idols are also resident within the temple of the Lord.
We know this to be true because the next chapter or two of Ezekiel details the stage by stage removal of the presence of the Lord from the temple.

The description of idol worship continues-
Standing in front of them were seventy elders of the house of Israel, with Jaazaniah the son of Shaphan standing among them, each man with his censer in his hand and the fragrance of the cloud of incense rising. Then He said to me, “Son of man, do you see what the elders of the house of Israel are committing in the dark, each man in the room of his carved images? For they say, ‘The LORD does not see us; the LORD has forsaken the land.’” And He said to me, “Yet you will see still greater abominations which they are committing.”

Just as the demons were hidden within the temple of the Lord back then, demons can be hidden in the New Testament temples of our bodies today.

It is both very foolish and extremely unscriptural to claim that Christians cannot have demons within them. It leaves the body of Christ completely vulnerable and powerless to resist demonic influence in individuals or in the church.​

 

[Francis Drake]

They have NO power over a christian filled with the Holy Spirit, and walking in obedience to the scriptures!

That's a long way from your original claim that no Christian can be demonised.

Lets look at what Paul says here about prostitution.-
1Cor6v15Do you not know that your bodies are members of Christ? Having taken then the members of the Christ, shall I make them members of a prostitute? Never may it be! 16Or do you not know that the one being joined to the prostitute is one body?
For it says, “The two will become into one flesh.” 17But the one being joined to the Lord is one spirit.

By joining with a prostitute, their two bodies/temples, became one. By his agreement through fornication, the demons in her temple of prostitution, could walk freely into his temple.

18Flee sexual immorality. Every sin, whatever if a man might do, is outside the body, but the one sinning sexually sins against the own body. 19Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit in you, whom you have from God? And you are not your own, 20for you were bought with a price. Therefore glorify God in your body.
You will note that Paul is addressing the believers, making it clear that believers can get demonised by such activity.
Likewise Christians can get demonised through inappropriate contentography, as the demons enter through hungry and wide open eyes.

My primary point being to shoot down the silly nonsense that Christians cannot become demonised.
Hopefully, the number of Christian men who get demonised through using prostitutes is very small. However the mere fact that we can get demonised from some things should warn Christians that there are countless other ways they can have demons within their temple, including those that remain from before they became Christians.

 

[Francis Drake]

No. same message as always, , that no true Christian can ever be possessed by one, but can be oppressed by one!

Scripture does not use the word possessed, neither do I.
At the end of the day, scripture shows that people can and do have indwelling demons, and makes no differentiation between believer and unbeliever. And you have never proved otherwise.

 

[YeshuaFan]

You are not being reasonable at all, how can you say that?

Because the scriptures alone are the infallible revelation from to us on what is sound doctrines and practices!

 

[YeshuaFan]

That's a long way from your original claim that no Christian can be demonised.

Lets look at what Paul says here about prostitution.-
1Cor6v15Do you not know that your bodies are members of Christ? Having taken then the members of the Christ, shall I make them members of a prostitute? Never may it be! 16Or do you not know that the one being joined to the prostitute is one body?
For it says, “The two will become into one flesh.” 17But the one being joined to the Lord is one spirit.

By joining with a prostitute, their two bodies/temples, became one. By his agreement through fornication, the demons in her temple of prostitution, could walk freely into his temple.

18Flee sexual immorality. Every sin, whatever if a man might do, is outside the body, but the one sinning sexually sins against the own body. 19Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit in you, whom you have from God? And you are not your own, 20for you were bought with a price. Therefore glorify God in your body.
You will note that Paul is addressing the believers, making it clear that believers can get demonised by such activity.
Likewise Christians can get demonised through inappropriate contentography, as the demons enter through hungry and wide open eyes.

My primary point being to shoot down the silly nonsense that Christians cannot become demonised.
Hopefully, the number of Christian men who get demonised through using prostitutes is very small. However the mere fact that we can get demonised from some things should warn Christians that there are countless other ways they can have demons within their temple, including those that remain from before they became Christians.

You are moving the goalposts here. as my claim as always been that while Christians can be oppressed by demons and Satan, cannot be possessed by them!

 

[NBB]

Because the scriptures alone are the infallible revelation from to us on what is sound doctrines and practices!

And if a spiritual problem arises, and is not in the bible, what you will say? you would look for wisdom or revelation from God, or just give up because is not in the bible?

 

[YeshuaFan]

I am sure we both agree that our bodies are the temple of the Lord, and the New Testament Temple parallels the OT temple, with the scriptures regularly drawing that comparison.

If you recall during periods of apostasy in the OT, they filled the temple with idols (demons). You should also know that this happened whilst the presence of the Lord was still in residence!
I am pointing this out to disprove the false theology behind the claim that demons cannot dwell in the same location that the spirit of the Lord also resides.
It also disproves the claim that Christians cannot have demons within them.
It also disproves the claim that once a person becomes a Christian, there is no need for deliverance because all the demons just have to flee.

And also to be clear, idols, whether wood or stone, have demons residing within them.
1Cor10v19What do I mean then? That a thing sacrificed to idols is anything, or that an idol is anything? v20No, but I say that the things which the Gentiles sacrifice, they sacrifice to demons and not to God; and I do not want you to become sharers in demons.

So lets look at how demons/idols shared the temple of the Lord in Jerusalem, just as they also share residence in a Christian's own body/temple.
2Kings21v7Manasseh even took the carved Asherah pole he had made and set it up in the temple, of which the LORD had said to David and his son Solomon, “In this temple and in Jerusalem, which I have chosen out of all the tribes of Israel I will establish My Name forever.
Here we see that when Manasseh installed his Asherah pole, he was also introducing demons to within the temple.

And on the occasion the Lord lifted him by the spirit from Babylon and took him on a tour of the Temple in Jerusalem, Ezekiel also reveals extensive demon worship within the temple
Ezekiel 8v Then He brought me to the entrance of the court, and when I looked, behold, a hole in the wall. He said to me, “Son of man, now dig through the wall.” So I dug through the wall, and behold, an entrance. And He said to me, “Go in and see the wicked abominations that they are committing here.”
Ezekiel has just arrived at the temple of the Lord, and is instructed to dig through the wall.

So I entered and looked, and behold, every form of creeping things and beasts and detestable things, with all the idols of the house of Israel, were carved on the wall all around.
At the very same time the presence of the Lord was resident on the temple, these idols are also resident within the temple of the Lord.
We know this to be true because the next chapter or two of Ezekiel details the stage by stage removal of the presence of the Lord from the temple.

The description of idol worship continues-
Standing in front of them were seventy elders of the house of Israel, with Jaazaniah the son of Shaphan standing among them, each man with his censer in his hand and the fragrance of the cloud of incense rising. Then He said to me, “Son of man, do you see what the elders of the house of Israel are committing in the dark, each man in the room of his carved images? For they say, ‘The LORD does not see us; the LORD has forsaken the land.’” And He said to me, “Yet you will see still greater abominations which they are committing.”

Just as the demons were hidden within the temple of the Lord back then, demons can be hidden in the New Testament temples of our bodies today.

It is both very foolish and extremely unscriptural to claim that Christians cannot have demons within them. It leaves the body of Christ completely vulnerable and powerless to resist demonic influence in individuals or in the church.​

No, rather your teaching leaves people confused, frightened, worried, and not really sure if they are saved or not, or that Jesus is not really the Lord over all situations experienced, both the good and the bad!

 

[YeshuaFan]

And if a spiritual problem arises, and is not in the bible, what you will say? you would look for wisdom or revelation from God, or just give up because is not in the bible?

There is no spiritual problem not either directly or indirectly addressed in the Bible!

 

[YeshuaFan]

Scripture does not use the word possessed, neither do I.
At the end of the day, scripture shows that people can and do have indwelling demons, and makes no differentiation between believer and unbeliever. And you have never proved otherwise.

One verse that shows a Christian possessed by demons then?

 

[NBB]

There is no spiritual problem not either directly or indirectly addressed in the Bible!

If you would be a pastor, and some christian manifest demons in them like it happens, you would just say lalalala christian can't have demons...??

 

[Francis Drake]

You are moving the goalposts here. as my claim as always been that while Christians can be oppressed by demons and Satan, cannot be possessed by them!

Well stop using the confusing word "possessed" then, seeing that its not scriptural.
I avoid using that word because it leads directly to the fake arguments that you keep making.

At the end of the day, scripture shows that both believers and non believers can have demons within them, and Jesus commanded his servants to cast them out.

 

[Francis Drake]

No, rather your teaching leaves people confused, frightened, worried, and not really sure if they are saved or not, or that Jesus is not really the Lord over all situations experienced, both the good and the bad!

Goodness me, what an infantile bunch of Christians you seem to be raising up if they are confused frightened worried and not sure they are saved when someone mentions demons.
If you are teaching them, you should be ashamed. I have seen young children doing deliverance without a second thought, and you whimper in fear. Lol

Sounds more like you're just faking the reaction to impress us.

But I see still you don't address all the scriptural proof I present.

 

[Francis Drake]

One verse that shows a Christian possessed by demons then?

Scripture makes it abundantly clear that demons dwell within people.
Scripture makes no differentiation between demonisation of believers or unbelievers except that believers also have the ability to cast them out.
Therefore, seeing you are the one who has been in denial of the deliverance ministry, it is down to you to prove from scripture that a believer cannot have an indwelling demon, and despite pretending to do so, you have completely failed to do so.

 

[Billy Evmur]

So the faith warrors, as God calls them, in Hebrews 11 that were sawn in half, killed, persecuted,lived in caves, were being hounded and live in dire situations had your overcoming living, as you describe it as being?

Hey what about Enoch?, Noah, Abraham, Sarah, Isaac and Jacob, Joseph, Moses, Gideon, Barak and Samson, Daniel, shadrach Meshak and Abednego. All of these were prosperous folk and were persecuted.

Godly prosperity and persecution go together.

God's people when they prosper really threaten Satan's kingdom. If the devil has sold you the poverty gospel he has limited your outreach.

Poverty doctrine is medieval Catholicism...the people were encourage stay poor and holy while Rome engrandised herself.

Wake up, poverty is a curse and a killer. If you don't believe it go to India.

 

[Billy Evmur]

You mock the grace of God in her life, as the Lord uses her to show to others who are facing bad situations like hers that God is faithful even when in the midst of trials and tribulations being experienced! God jas chosen to permit her to stay in that state for His glory....

I do not mock her at all...and remind me never to ask you to pray for me, heavens knows what would befall me for God's glory.

There is no case in the gospel where Jesus said go and be sick for God's glory, He is God, He did not come to do His own will but the will of the Father...He healed them ALL. That's how I know it is God's will.

It's no good bringing up this case or that case.

However wonderful Joni is I must look to Jesus.

We do not see ALL healed at present, 150 years ago you would have seen few people healed, in the 14th century church consisted of Mass. We are moving on, God is moving on...don't get left behind.

 

[Billy Evmur]

We are still here living under the Curse, effected by the fall of Adam, and there shall be no more sickness/disease, and all shall indeed have full prosperity with the Second Coning happens, and Jesus sets up His kingdom here upon the earth! God cares FAR more that we grow in maturity than our ease comfort and pleasures!

I can either believe you or I can believe the bible which states that Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law.

It may be so that we do not enter into the fullness of redemption, people are still sinning in things over which they ought to have victory...but our eyes are not to be upon what we see but upon the word of God.

In the 14th century all the church we had was Mass...was that God's will?

It is probably so that the church will not attain to the fullness of the stature of Christ this side of the rapture...but the truth is there in the bible for those that seek it.

"The just shall live by faith" was in the bible for 1500 years before Luther discovered it.

 

[W2L]

Hey what about Enoch?, Noah, Abraham, Sarah, Isaac and Jacob, Joseph, Moses, Gideon, Barak and Samson, Daniel, shadrach Meshak and Abednego. All of these were prosperous folk and were persecuted.

Godly prosperity and persecution go together.

God's people when they prosper really threaten Satan's kingdom. If the devil has sold you the poverty gospel he has limited your outreach.

Poverty doctrine is medieval Catholicism...the people were encourage stay poor and holy while Rome engrandised herself.

Wake up, poverty is a curse and a killer. If you don't believe it go to India.

The apostles are our examples to follow. They didnt earn millions selling their doctrine then call it Gods prosperity! Please friend, i think you need to wake up.

 

[Jonathan OShea]

If God still calls apostles and prophets, then why are the churches divided? Can a church that is divided over doctrine actually be called by God? Arent their teachers wrong, and therefore not gifted at all?

Actually that is why they are divided. Because they have given themselves over to a false church government and every man does that which is right in his own eyes instead of their being judges as Isaiah 1 speaks about.

 

[Billy Evmur]

The apostles are our examples to follow. They didnt earn millions selling their doctrine then call it Gods prosperity! Please friend, i think you need to wake up.

I wouldn't buy the gospel mate...I was saved through the witness of a gospel magazine....somebody paid for it, you can't broadcast the gospel on telly for nothing can you?

Even Christian Forums take donations.

Who cares what you think, if I see souls being saved I will gladly take part in that, and God will bless me.

He always has....