Once saved always saved

[Oldmantook]

The elect believe eternal life is in Christ. Nonbelievers do not believe this. Eternal life in Christ = eternal security. The lie of the serpent is that one must work and merit his salvation by his self righteous deeds to stay saved or maintain his security

You ignore Heb 5:9 which plainly states that OBEDIENCE is required for eternal life. The serpent did not say one must work. WHERE DOES THE VERSE STATE THAT?? The serpent stated you shall not surely die = once saved always saved. If you choose to believe the lie as did Eve, you are certainly free to do so!

 

[Hillsage]

Dan Corner and teachers like him that reject OSAS are failing to rightly divide. They take scripture that was not written directly to us and try to apply it to us to put us under law.

Before I watch an hour long video please tell me this. Does he rightly divide the salvations of the spirit soul and body in his application of scripture?

 

[Hillsage]

You ignore Heb 5:9 which plainly states that OBEDIENCE is required for eternal life. The serpent did not say one must work. WHERE DOES THE VERSE STATE THAT?? The serpent stated you shall not surely die = once saved always saved. If you choose to believe the lie as did Eve, you are certainly free to do so!

I don't ignore it. I do use more consistent translations though.

HEB 5:9 and having been made perfect, he did become to all those obeying him a cause of salvation age-during,

So, like I said before, if you "work out your salvation with fear and trembling" until you are PERFECT as Jesus became perfect in His 'suffering in the flesh to cease from sin' then you too will achieve His immortal resurrection power to the end of this age as I said earlier. The same resurrection power that Paul sought for but apparently never achieved the sought for 'perfection' of that "high calling in Christ Jesus". A calling which Paul was called to 'preach it', but only for those who would eventually be enlightened and called to 'reach it'. Works for my POV.

 

[DavidPT]

If Jesus meant what He said when He said in Matthew that "he who endures to the end will be saved", then apparently he who does not endure to the end, will not be saved.

Exactly. Obviously there has to be an opposite to these things. I don't know why some are unable to grasp that?

Revelation 3:5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.


What would be the oposite of this? Would it not be this? He that overcometh not, the same shall not be clothed in white raiment; and I will blot out his name out of the book of life, and I will not confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

 

[Benjamin Gibbs]

All those who are saved by the blood of Jesus will be saved to the uttermost. He stoned for all your sins, past, present and future. Those who are “saved” most certainly will never be lost. The struggle that remains is confirming your confidence in the faith. Are YOU saved? Does your life show good fruit? You can only have confidence of salvation if you are continuing to believe and confess Jesus Christ as Lord and Saviour.

 

[EJ M]

Oh my.... I sure never knew that he murdered 50 souls.

Dr Paul Penley writes; (Link)
John Calvin justified killing his theological opponents with the Bible
In 5 years as magistrate of the Geneva “church-city-state,” Calvin oversaw 58 death sentences and the exile of 76 people. He wasn't the sole decision-maker in those cases, but personal correspondence and city council records betray his extraordinary influence. When Jacques Gruet, a theologian with differing views, placed a letter in Calvin’s pulpit calling him a hypocrite, he was arrested, tortured for a month and beheaded on July 26, 1547. Gruet's own theological book was later found and burned along with his house while his wife was thrown out into the street to watch.

Michael Servetus, a Spaniard, physician, scientist and Bible scholar, suffered a worse fate. He was Calvin's longtime friend who resisted the authority of the Roman Catholic Church. However, he angered Calvin by returning a copy of Calvin's Institutes with critical comments in the margins. The next time Servetus attended Calvin's Sunday preaching service on a visit, Calvin had him arrested and charged with heresy. The 38 official charges included rejection of the Trinity and infant baptism. Servetus pleaded to be beheaded instead of the more brutal method of burning at the stake, but Calvin and the city council refused the quicker death method.
On October 27, 1553, Calvin’s men used green wood for the fire so Servetus would be slowly baked alive from the feet upward. For 30 minutes he screamed for mercy and prayed to Jesus as the fire worked its way up his body to burn the theology book Calvin had strapped to his chest as a symbol of his heresy. How could such torture be condoned? In November 1552 the Geneva Council declared Calvin's Institutes of the Christian Religion to be a "holy doctrine which no man might speak against." Disagreeing with Calvin’s view of God was a violation warranting the death penalty according to the way John Calvin interpreted Leviticus 24:16.

 

[GingerBeer]

Is once saved always saved biblical?

No.

 

[Thess]

All those who are saved by the blood of Jesus will be saved to the uttermost. He stoned for all your sins, past, present and future. Those who are “saved” most certainly will never be lost. The struggle that remains is confirming your confidence in the faith. Are YOU saved? Does your life show good fruit? You can only have confidence of salvation if you are continuing to believe and confess Jesus Christ as Lord and Saviour.

Outstanding post!!! If we don't obey, our false sense of confidence will allow us to live tremendous lives of sin, all the while claiming, "I am safe and secure in the arms of Jesus". Yeah, I used to feel that way too, when I was spending tons of money in strip clubs. Let us no longer be deceived as I was deceived!

 

[Basil the Great]

No.

I think it is fair to say that both sides on this issue can quote Scripture to support their position. However, what happens when we look at the Early Church and how they viewed the subject? Dare we ask this dangerous question, my fine feathered friends? (one of my very rare attempts at humor)

 

[Hillsage]

The elect believe eternal life is in Christ. Nonbelievers do not believe this. Eternal life in Christ = eternal security. The lie of the serpent is that one must work and merit his salvation by his self righteous deeds to stay saved or maintain his security

OSAS is not about doing 'self righteousness deeds' it is about 'Christ's IMPUTED righteousness'. And the OSAS IMPUTED righteousness is where rightly divided scripture is applied to the spirit being saved and "US IN CHRIST". Whereas the progressive salvation of our soul's fight against sin is dependent upon "CHRIST IN US".

2CO 13:5 Test yourselves to see if you are in the faith; examine yourselves! Or do you not recognize this about yourselves, that Jesus Christ is IN YOU - unless indeed you fail the test?

Now, study yourselves to learn the difference in scriptures 'correctly translated' and find out the difference between "YOU IN Christ" and being "OF the faith" versus being "Christ IN YOU" and being "IN the faith". It's late and I'm done here.

But if you do study, then you too may understand the 'half truth' understanding that's being presented by everyone else here. All being based upon The little foxes of "IN" and "OF" which are "are ruining the vineyards" of sweet sound teaching and dividing the church with the 'ever learning and never' changing winds of 'Armenian versus Calvin doctrine'. Doctrines which have never agreed and never will, but have always divided and always will.

2 Timothy 3:7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

 

[Oldmantook]

I don't ignore it. I do use more consistent translations though.

HEB 5:9 and having been made perfect, he did become to all those obeying him a cause of salvation age-during,

So, like I said before, if you "work out your salvation with fear and trembling" until you are PERFECT as Jesus became perfect in His 'suffering in the flesh to cease from sin' then you too will achieve His immortal resurrection power to the end of this age as I said earlier. The same resurrection power that Paul sought for but apparently never achieved the sought for 'perfection' of that "high calling in Christ Jesus". A calling which Paul was called to 'preach it', but only for those who would eventually be enlightened and called to 'reach it'. Works for my POV.

So you agree that obedience is required for eternal life? Yes or no?
Or, are you claiming that obedience is required for "perfection?"
Are you sinless/perfect? yes or no?
What are we required to "reach?"
What do you define as that "high calling?"
Your response has generated a few questions that require clarification.

 

[Thess]

what happens when we look at the Early Church and how they viewed the subject? Dare we ask this dangerous question

Every day of the week! If we're not modeling the early church, we're likely a disqualified "church". I have yet to ever step foot into a legitimate church and I'm 51. We've got a problem, folks.

 

[redleghunter]

What is believed to be the roots of this false doctrine is Calvin's attempt to salve his conscience.
After using old testament scripture to murder "heretics" and his, (Calvin's) conscience troubling him exceedingly, he came up with unconditional eternal security.
And the other 4 points of Calvinism as well.
It is probable that if a Calvinist believes all 5 points or any of them, but doesn't practice,
they need not worry.
But there have been some Calvinists who have lived horrible lives, including Calvin himself who defy the description of the saved who would still claim to be Christians according to Calvin's "unconditional eternal security"
Like so many other modern Christians, the scriptures are wrested to their own destruction.
Please come soon Lord Jesus.

Did Calvin come up with the 5 points?

 

[redleghunter]

Dan Corner is wrong but rather amusing in his ignorance of the spectrum of theologies dealing with the doctrine of Eternal Security. Almost every statement he makes is wrong. I've got to remind myself to write a web page critiquing his stuff and add it to my Berean Chrisitian Bible Study Resource site. Actually have a whole section under my Theology menu linked to a number of articles I've written on the subject of Eternal Security.

Went to your eternal security page. Think you nail it here:

“Thus the heretic's position concerning such verses is no more than a strawman argument in that there doesn't actually exist anyone born of God who continues to live a lifestyle of sin.

But there are those who use the reverse logic saying that they knew so and so who was "genuinely" saved, but then continued to live a lifestyle of sin and on that basis they derive their doctrine. In contrast I encourage people to derive their doctrine from the Bible and scrutinize their experience in light of what the Bible teaches.

For example in this case concerning an alleged believer continuing to live in sin, I would call into question whether they are genuine believers. In fact John goes even further saying that such people were never saved to begin with. For he says, "They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us." 1John 2:19”

 

[Radagast]

Dr Paul Penley writes; (Link)
John Calvin justified killing his theological opponents with the Bible
In 5 years as magistrate of the Geneva “church-city-state,” Calvin oversaw 58 death sentences and the exile of 76 people

A tissue of lies. Calvin didn't kill anybody, nor was he a magistrate.

Jacques Gruet, a theologian with differing views

He wasn't a "theologian," he was someone who thought that all of Scripture was false, that the Apostles were "knaves and blockheads," and that the Blessed Virgin Mary was a prostitute. I guess you can call those "differing views."

But it was the city authorities who executed him.

Servetus pleaded to be beheaded instead of the more brutal method of burning at the stake, but Calvin and the city council refused the quicker death method.

Another utter falsehood.

In fact, after a sentence of death had been passed, it was Calvin who requested that it be done by beheading, not burning. Calvin's request was refused by the Genevan government.

 

[GingerBeer]

I think it is fair to say that both sides on this issue can quote Scripture to support their position. However, what happens when we look at the Early Church and how they viewed the subject? Dare we ask this dangerous question, my fine feathered friends? (one of my very rare attempts at humor)

Nope

 

[Righttruth]

So do you think their is conditional eternal security? Like if we remain in Chirst, we are guranteed eternal life. Do you think this doctrine leads to hell?

Human convenient assumptions are not permanent salvation tags

 

[redleghunter]

A tissue of lies. Calvin didn't kill anybody, nor was he a magistrate.



He wasn't a "theologian," he was someone who thought that all of Scripture was false, that the Apostles were "knaves and blockheads," and that the Blessed Virgin Mary was a prostitute. I guess you can call those "differing views."

But it was the city authorities who executed him.



Another utter falsehood.

In fact, after a sentence of death had been passed, it was Calvin who requested that it be done by beheading, not burning. Calvin's request was refused by the Genevan government.

I’m not amazed these falsehoods continue with the advent of the internet.

But how many times must this be corrected?

 

[redleghunter]

So do you think their is conditional eternal security? Like if we remain in Chirst, we are guranteed eternal life. Do you think this doctrine leads to hell?

If eternal life is conditional then it’s not eternal.

Jesus said His sheep would never perish.

 

[Barney2.0]

People can lose salvation, the biggest example of this is Judas, a baptized Christian who ended up selling Jesus to his own death.