Was King David Saved While He Committed His Sins of Adultery and Murder?

[Neogaia777]

Of course God is not limited to time and space, yet God is omnipresent throughout his creation. God for instance knows the end from the beginning, he doesn't have to wait for the passage of time to know how all this ends because he controls it.

Not so much as "controls it", and/or manipulates it so much, but (because) it is all going the way he programmed or planned it or purposed it all to be, basically... Knowing all of every single little detail of that plan or program, from the very beginning... And He knows it's purpose as well...

He may make and appearance in the future though, maybe...

God Bless!

 

[mark kennedy]

Not so much as "controls it", and/or manipulates it so much, but (because) it is all going the way he programmed or planned it or purposed it all to be, basically... Knowing all of every single little detail of that plan or program, from the very beginning... And He knows it's purpose as well...

He may make and appearance in the future though, maybe...

God Bless!

I kind of like this Psalm quoted in Hebrews:

“In the beginning, Lord, you laid the foundations of the earth,
and the heavens are the work of your hands.
They will perish, but you remain;
they will all wear out like a garment.
You will roll them up like a robe;
like a garment they will be changed.
But you remain the same,
and your years will never end.” (Hebrews 1:10-12, Psalm 102:25-27)
​

They shall wear old like a garment, that pretty much shows the contrast. This created universe in all it's spectacular grandeur will pass away, I think scientists call that entropy . At any rate, God has been in control from the beginning and he does make a rather dramatic appearance at the end of the age. At some point the temporal will give way to the eternal, the passing things of this life will be largely a forgotten memory. The day will come when we see him as he is, when there is no need for the sun because God will be our light. There is also mention of a new heavens and a new earth, I'm not entirely sure what that will be like but we do know, the one who makes the promise if faithful.

Grace and peace,
Mark

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Please share verses that show God being Omnipresent, Omnipotent, and Omniscient is a contridiction in scripture.

Again, nowhere am I in disagreement with God being Omnipresent, Omnipotent, and Omniscient.

Note: Omnipresent is not the same thing as Omni-temporal. While God can most certainly be Omni-temporal, I do not believe He chooses to exercise this particular power for various reasons.

Anyways, what does this have to do with the question of this thread?

 

[Neogaia777]

I kind of like this Psalm quoted in Hebrews:

“In the beginning, Lord, you laid the foundations of the earth,
and the heavens are the work of your hands.
They will perish, but you remain;
they will all wear out like a garment.
You will roll them up like a robe;
like a garment they will be changed.
But you remain the same,
and your years will never end.” (Hebrews 1:10-12, Psalm 102:25-27)
​

They shall wear old like a garment, that pretty much shows the contrast. This created universe in all it's spectacular grandeur will pass away, I think scientists call that entropy . At any rate, God has been in control from the beginning and he does make a rather dramatic appearance at the end of the age. At some point the temporal will give way to the eternal, the passing things of this life will be largely a forgotten memory. The day will come when we see him as he is, when there is no need for the sun because God will be our light. There is also mention of a new heavens and a new earth, I'm not entirely sure what that will be like but we do know, the one who makes the promise if faithful.

Grace and peace,
Mark

Very well said...

God Bless!

 

[Bible Highlighter]

No it's not.

How can God be eternal with no beginning and no end if God exists within time?

It is true that GOD has always existed. GOD had no beginning. Time is merely the sequence of events that is counted or measured. Time is something we came up with to measure what takes place. GOD existed forever in this direction from the present.

Eternity's Past. <------------------- Present Moment in time.

And GOD will continue on in the present into Eternity's Future.
But God is not existing in Eternity's Future.

While I believe God is capable of making time so as to exist in a future (or multiple futures or timelines) that we have not lived out yet personally, it just does not make a whole lot of sense unless you believe we are reliving things over again in some way with God.

If God created all things including the universe and time, why would God have an issue with time.

Jesus birth, death and ressurection, since He was human existed at a specific point in time. His death was about 33AD.

Since Jesus is God, how can you say God cannot exist within time, yet be eternal and exist outside of time.

Again, you are not making sense. Jesus came into the flesh of a man. God was manifested in the flesh. Man is clearly effected by time. Even God is effected by time when He is communicating with his people. Time is something that is measured. Like 9 O'clock. 12 O'clock, etc. God appeared at specific points in time within our creation. So this means God was a part of our time.

But again, what does this have to do with the topic of this thread?

 

[Bible Highlighter]

You do not understand OSAS.

OSAS does indeed say that sin can separate God and man, in fellowship, which is why repentance is necessary.

I knew this about OSAS way back since I studied it 7 years ago. This is not new for me. I am 100% aware that OSAS teaches that sin is only a loss of fellowship and yet it is not a loss of salvation. But the Bible teaches that...

Believers cannot be out of fellowship with the Lord and be saved.

#1. 1 John 5:12 says He that has the Son has life and He that does not have the Son does not have life. Life is associated with eternal life or salvation.

#2. John 17:3 says eternal life is in knowing the one true God, Jesus Christ. Knowing implies a fellowship. So if you don't know Jesus, then you don't have life (Salvation).

#3. Romans 8:9 says if he a man does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to him.

#4. Psalms 73:27 says God will destroy all those who abandon Him (or go a whoring from Him).

#5. John 15:6 says if a man does not abide in Him, he is cast forth and burned.

#6. 1 John 1:7 says if we walk in the Light as He is in the Light, the blood of Jesus Christ cleanses us from all sin. Being cleansed of sin is salvation; If you were to contrast this with 1 John 2:4, it says that person who says they know the Lord and does keep His commandments is a liar and the truth is not in them. Revelation 21:8 says all liars will have their part in the Lake of Fire.

#7. Romans 11:21-22 says if you do not continue in his goodness you will be cut off. For if God spared not the natural branches (i.e. the Jews), take heed that he can do the same to you (i.e. Gentile believers). The analogy here is that you are branch and Christ is the tree. We need to continue in Christ's righteousness or goodness, not our own righteousness or goodness, or we will be cut off because of unbelief.

#8. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates? (2 Corinthians 13:5).

We do not believe that sin can affect salvation because it is not our justification it is Christ's justification that is in our place.

Hebrews 10:26 says if we willfully sin after we receive the knowledge of the truth, there remains no more sacrifice for sin.

1 John 1:7 essentially says we have to walk in the light in order for the blood of Jesus Christ to cleanse us from all sin.

Hebrews 5:9 essentially says that Jesus is the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him.

If you can show Christ sinned or that His life was not perfect then that would affect Christ's perfect justification or being our Advocate to the Father.

Where did I ever state that? I didn't. So you are proposing something that I never said and nor do I believe.

I wish you understood OSAS because correcting your misunderstanding is tiring.

God's grace teaches us to deny ungodliness and that we should live righteously and godly in this present world (Titus 2:11-12). God's grace is not a license for immorality (Jude 1:4). Hence, why King David was not saved in his sins of adultery and murder. David needed to confess of his sins to be forgiven. This is what we read about in Psalms 51. David cries out for forgiveness with God and desires for his salvation back.

 

[Neogaia777]

It is true that GOD has always existed. GOD had no beginning. Time is merely the sequence of events that is counted or measured. Time is something we came up with to measure what takes place. GOD existed forever in this direction from the present.

Eternity's Past. <------------------- Present Moment in time.

And GOD will continue on in the present into Eternity's Future.
But God is not existing in Eternity's Future.

While I believe God is capable of making time so as to exist in a future (or multiple futures or timelines) that we have not lived out yet personally, it just does not make a whole lot of sense unless you believe we are reliving things over again in some way with God.



Again, you are not making sense. Jesus came into the flesh of a man. God was manifested in the flesh. Man is clearly effected by time. Even God is effected by time when He is communicating with his people. Time is something that is measured. Like 9 O'clock. 12 O'clock, etc. God appeared at specific points in time within our creation. So this means God was a part of our time.

But again, what does this have to do with the topic of this thread?

Yes, it reminds me of something(s) I've seen to the effect that, or is saying that the only time is now, the present, and they really made me think... And how only our perceptions of things (of time, space, distance, ect, reality, substance, ect), were all really flowing out from there ect, that our perceptions was what was dictating them (all) from the "now" (the present always)... And the only thing that was of any real substance, or is or was ever really real, was only our perceptions of these things (afore mentioned)

Anyway, know that is kind of out there, and not to derail the thread...

God Bless!

 

[mark kennedy]

I knew this about OSAS way back since I studied it 7 years ago. This is not new for me. I am 100% aware that OSAS teaches that sin is only a loss of fellowship and yet it is not a loss of salvation. But the Bible teaches that...

Believers cannot be out of fellowship with the Lord and be saved.

#1. 1 John 5:12 says He that has the Son has life and He that does not have the Son does not have life. Life is associated with eternal life or salvation.

#2. John 17:3 says eternal life is in knowing the one true God, Jesus Christ. Knowing implies a fellowship. So if you don't know Jesus, then you don't have life (Salvation).

#3. Romans 8:9 says if he a man does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to him.

#4. Psalms 73:27 says God will destroy all those who abandon Him (or go a whoring from Him).

#5. John 15:6 says if a man does not abide in Him, he is cast forth and burned.

#6. 1 John 1:7 says if we walk in the Light as He is in the Light, the blood of Jesus Christ cleanses us from all sin. Being cleansed of sin is salvation; If you were to contrast this with 1 John 2:4, it says that person who says they know the Lord and does keep His commandments is a liar and the truth is not in them. Revelation 21:8 says all liars will have their part in the Lake of Fire.

#7. Romans 11:21-22 says if you do not continue in his goodness you will be cut off. For if God spared not the natural branches (i.e. the Jews), take heed that he can do the same to you (i.e. Gentile believers). The analogy here is that you are branch and Christ is the tree. We need to continue in Christ's righteousness or goodness, not our own righteousness or goodness, or we will be cut off because of unbelief.

#8. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates? (2 Corinthians 13:5).



Hebrews 10:26 says if we willfully sin after we receive the knowledge of the truth, there remains no more sacrifice for sin.

1 John 1:7 essentially says we have to walk in the light in order for the blood of Jesus Christ to cleanse us from all sin.

Hebrews 5:9 essentially says that Jesus is the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him.



Where did I ever state that? I didn't. So you are proposing something that I never said and nor do I believe.



God's grace teaches us to deny ungodliness and that we should live righteously and godly in this present world (Titus 2:11-12). God's grace is not a license for immorality (Jude 1:4). Hence, why King David was not saved in his sins of adultery and murder. David needed to confess of his sins to be forgiven. This is what we read about in Psalms 51. David cries out for forgiveness with God and desires for his salvation back.

Nothing in those passages is talking about a believer who stumbles the way David did. To depart from God is apostasy and those who crept in awares, addressed in Jude were not believers. You have an odd view of sin that you never explain. You can't sin and be saved, which is simply something the New Testament doesn't teach. Paul does tell us we are going to be a slave to sin or a slave to righteousness, if your trying to do both your double minded and unstable in all your ways. David let temptation get the best of him and it was a long way back. There is not one iota of biblical support he lost salvation, only that God revealed his sin and got him back.

You don't have a doctrine of sin or works and I'm completely puzzled what formula for salvation your working from. So if I lose salvation when I sin then at what pont did I become a sinner in need of grace in the first place? David said he was cocieved in sin (Psalm 51:5). So tell me Jason, where do you stand on original sin because David seemed to think he had been a sinner from the womb. Paul makes it clear original sin gies back to Adam in Romans 5. What is your take on this?

 

[ToBeLoved]

Again, nowhere am I in disagreement with God being Omnipresent, Omnipotent, and Omniscient.

Note: Omnipresent is not the same thing as Omni-temporal. While God can most certainly be Omni-temporal, I do not believe He chooses to exercise this particular power for various reasons.

Anyways, what does this have to do with the question of this thread?

You were posting about it in post #902.

That is the post I replied to.

So you were commenting on it as the OP

 

[ToBeLoved]

Again, you are not making sense. Jesus came into the flesh of a man. God was manifested in the flesh. Man is clearly effected by time. Even God is effected by time when He is communicating with his people. Time is something that is measured. Like 9 O'clock. 12 O'clock, etc. God appeared at specific points in time within our creation. So this means God was a part of our time.

Just because Hod communicates with human being within a construct of time, doesn’t mean God Himself is within any mode of time Himself.

When God appeared to Moses as a burning bush. Yet we don’t think God is a burning bush, do we?

God appeared to the Israelites
As light. To light their way while they traveled at night in the desert. Yet we don’t think God is light.

Same thing on a high level. Limiting God is not good

 

[mark kennedy]

Yes, it reminds me of something(s) I've seen to the effect that, or is saying that the only time is now, the present, and they really made me think... And how only our perceptions of things (of time, space, distance, ect, reality, substance, ect), were all really flowing out from there ect, that our perceptions was what was dictating them (all) from the "now" (the present always)... And the only thing that was of any real substance, or is or was ever really real, was only our perceptions of these things (afore mentioned)

Anyway, know that is kind of out there, and not to derail the thread...

God Bless!

I thought it was relavant because it speaks to the nature of God. I honestly don't know what it means for God to exist in or outside of time. I certaily have no clue what multiple timelines are. I thought we were talking about sin and salvation, this started to sound like string theory for a minute, I'm glad that's over.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Yes, it reminds me of something(s) I've seen to the effect that, or is saying that the only time is now, the present, and they really made me think... And how only our perceptions of things (of time, space, distance, ect, reality, substance, ect), were all really flowing out from there ect, that our perceptions was what was dictating them (all) from the "now" (the present always)... And the only thing that was of any real substance, or is or was ever really real, was only our perceptions of these things (afore mentioned)

Anyway, know that is kind of out there, and not to derail the thread...

God Bless!

You may be interested in checking out these two threads here I just created.

Besides the limits of God's moral character, God has no boundaries.

God and Time: Does God exist in all points in time?

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Just because Hod communicates with human being within a construct of time, doesn’t mean God Himself is within any mode of time Himself.

When God appeared to Moses as a burning bush. Yet we don’t think God is a burning bush, do we?

God appeared to the Israelites
As light. To light their way while they traveled at night in the desert. Yet we don’t think God is light.

Same thing on a high level. Limiting God is not good

See Post #932.

 

[Neogaia777]

I thought it was relavant because it speaks to the nature of God. I honestly don't know what it means for God to exist in or outside of time. I certaily have no clue what multiple timelines are. I thought we were talking about sin and salvation, this started to sound like string theory for a minute, I'm glad that's over.

I don't know "everything" either...

God Bless!

 

[Bible Highlighter]

You were posting about it in post #902.

That is the post I replied to.

So you were commenting on it as the OP

I disagree. My Post #1 is the OP.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Nothing in those passages is talking about a believer who stumbles the way David did. To depart from God is apostasy and those who crept in awares, addressed in Jude were not believers. You have an odd view of sin that you never explain. You can't sin and be saved, which is simply something the New Testament doesn't teach. Paul does tell us we are going to be a slave to sin or a slave to righteousness, if your trying to do both your double minded and unstable in all your ways. David let temptation get the best of him and it was a long way back. There is not one iota of biblical support he lost salvation, only that God revealed his sin and got him back.

You don't have a doctrine of sin or works and I'm completely puzzled what formula for salvation your working from. So if I lose salvation when I sin then at what pont did I become a sinner in need of grace in the first place? David said he was cocieved in sin (Psalm 51:5). So tell me Jason, where do you stand on original sin because David seemed to think he had been a sinner from the womb. Paul makes it clear original sin gies back to Adam in Romans 5. What is your take on this?

King David was not saved while he committed his sins of adultery and murder.

#1. Numbers 35:16-18 says it only takes on act of murder to be a murderer; And Leviticus 20:10 says it only takes on act of adultery to be an adulterer.

#2. Jesus Himself regarded just looking at woman once as an act of adultery (Matthew 5:28).

#3. John says, "No murderer has eternal life abiding in them." (1 John 3:15).

#4. Proverbs 6:32 says "Whosoever commits adultery with a woman lacks understanding: he that does it destroys his own soul."

#5. Jesus Himself says that just looking at a woman in lust (Which is adultery) is potential for a person to be cast bodily in hell fire (See Matthew 5:28-30).

#6. David needed to confess of his sin in order to be forgiven (See Psalms 51).

#7. 1 John 1:9 says if we confess our sins he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

#8. Revelation 21:8 says, "But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone: which is the second death." Murderers and whoremongers will be cast into the lake of fire. All liars will be cast into the lake of fire. ALL liars, and not just some. NO murderer has eternal life abiding in them (1 John 3:15).

 

[ToBeLoved]

I disagree. My Post #1 is the OP.

OP could mean 2 things.

OP = Original post
OP = Original poster

I used OP in the second sense. You are the original poster of this thread.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

OP could mean 2 things.

OP = Original post
OP = Original poster

I used OP in the second sense. You are the original poster of this thread.

See post #932.

 

[ToBeLoved]

See post #932.

I know your circular reasoning already. No need for me to hear it again in two more threads.

I followed your last two threads. While interesting, I'm not sure anything really additional was put forth. I'm trying to limit the threads I'm participating in with Thanksgiving coming. I find if threads frustrate me less participation is more, so to speak.

 

[ToBeLoved]

King David was not saved while he committed his sins of adultery and murder.

#1. Numbers 35:16-18 says it only takes on act of murder to be a murderer; And Leviticus 20:10 says it only takes on act of adultery to be an adulterer.

#2. Jesus Himself regarded just looking at woman once as an act of adultery (Matthew 5:28).

#3. John says, "No murderer has eternal life abiding in them." (1 John 3:15).

#4. Proverbs 6:32 says "Whosoever commits adultery with a woman lacks understanding: he that does it destroys his own soul."

#5. Jesus Himself says that just looking at a woman in lust (Which is adultery) is potential for a person to be cast bodily in hell fire (See Matthew 5:28-30).

#6. David needed to confess of his sin in order to be forgiven (See Psalms 51).

#7. 1 John 1:9 says if we confess our sins he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

#8. Revelation 21:8 says, "But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone: which is the second death." Murderers and whoremongers will be cast into the lake of fire. All liars will be cast into the lake of fire. ALL liars, and not just some. NO murderer has eternal life abiding in them (1 John 3:15).

why are you posting all these New Testament, New Covenant verses.

King David was under the Old Covenant. Also, with the blood sacrifices of the Levitical / Aaronic priesthoods they had atonement for sin.

So I'm not seeing your point anymore, as a matter of fact, I think you are further confusing the OP with the verses you are choosing (NT)