The question cessationists must answer.

[Francis Drake]

Our full possession of what God has for us is in Heaven, and is not the promised glorified physical body superior by far to any physical healing done here for us?

Great post, when you can't answer, throw more waffle and fudge in.

I repeat below the same 3 points, see if you can answer without diverting away from them.

All of which has nothing to do with the demonic claim that dying is healing.
I challenge you to show me anywhere in scripture that says dying is any form of healing.

John10v10“The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy; I came that they may have life, and have it abundantly.

According to Jesus, the antithesis of death is abundant life. But according to your sick theology, someone dying is the same as abundant life.

 

[W2L]

Guess im not getting an answer to that question.

 

[NBB]

Its the word anointing.
It is true absolutly ... Jesus said the spirit of the lord has (past tense) anointed me... To things he listed.
He then went and did those things.
It was not about a feeling .
The anointing is not a feeling or anything like that.
The word anointing does not mean what youve been taught it means.
I was tricked by the teaching you cant do anything unless you FEEL some special anointing.
Its a lie. A false doctrine.
It holds people in churches on sunday waiting for some one to come and give them some special word and impart some mystical power. Its an imprisoning lie.
It is bound in Unbelief.
God showed me ..you already have been appointed his witness when you recieved the holy Spirit.
Now rise up go out and obey the lord Jesus.
Thats called the obedience of faith. Faith is not a passive thing you have.
Faith is the action you take because you believe in JESUS.
When the lord showed me this..and showed me we were all sitting on sundays being unfruitful branches he also reminded me what happens to unfruitful branches.
So many will attend church and seminar and conference and flutter thier leaves in feelings and experiences and still be CUT off as unfruitful branches.
Fruit ..multiplies the tree. Preaching singing coffeemaking ushering office working worship leading..these are service ..but they are not fruit.
Fruit is to become More of the vine your grafted into ..do not be a hearer of the word and not a Doer

You know that do you?
Yikes

Of course is bad to sit and do nothing waiting for something like the anointing if God didn't tell you, maybe you get nothing and then what?...

I would not call it a feeling either.

I really don't know much about it, but i knew 2 preachers that preach about it and they are legit for me, one casted a demon out of me and told me details of my life nobody knew, only God would knew those details, another one while 'ministering' i felt like an strange electricity in my arm, and immediately he said, 'someone is feeling electricity in their bodies', how he would know? and we should be careful to say this is rubbish and false or worse from the devil.

Just my experience...

 

[Alithis]

An Apostle HAD to either walk with Jesus, know Him personally while he was here, or else have Him appear to them after resurrected, as happened to both James and Paul!
And that person you described has no way to know if that was Jesus or not...

Sounds lije a nice list of requirements made up by some ladies over coffee.
Let God decide whom he sends for each generation.
Let God be judge of WOF people.
But You... You go obey the lord JESUS.

 

[Francis Drake]

Only Apostles are gifted to have infallible theologies!

Oh dear oh dear, and you are the one who keeps boasting that you only follow the bible. Well according to statement above, that bible of yours is now no longer infallible.

If only apostles are gifted to write infallible theologies, you'd best tear Mark's and Luke's gospels out, along with the Book of Acts.
Perhaps you didn't notice, but neither Mark, nor Luke are listed as apostles.

Maybe you'd like to back pedal your statement a little.

I might also point out that despite claiming to follow your infallible scriptures, your explanations of them is an awful long way from infallible.

 

[Francis Drake]

My "attack" was on your claim to exorcise demons out of Christians, as there are NO recorded instances in the Bible that ever happened, and your experiences means little in this area!

The scriptures make no claim either way, so that's just an empty worthless statement.

But given that Jesus commanded us to cast demons out as a part of the great commission, you must either be casting them out of non believers, or being rebellious and lazy.

Which is it?

 

[Francis Drake]

You really thin staying here, even if God chooses to heal us, would be superior to being with the Lord ?

That's a real fool irrelevant question, but as you obviously think death is somehow advancing the kingdom, I was just a wondering, ...maybe...……………were you part of the Rev Jim Jones crowd by any chance?
They were into that sort of thing.

 

[Alithis]

The scriptures make no claim either way, so that's just an empty worthless statement.

But given that Jesus commanded us to cast demons out as a part of the great commission, you must either be casting them out of non believers, or being rebellious and lazy.

Which is it?

This is so. Devils are not cast out of christians or non Christians.
They are cast out of human bodies

 

[W2L]

Sounds lije a nice list of requirements made up by some ladies over coffee.
Let God decide whom he sends for each generation.
Let God be judge of WOF people.
But You... You go obey the lord JESUS.

No, you stop issuing orders. You dont want to judge if WOF is sound doctrine? Thats your business but you are not an authority over anyone so get yourself in check please.

 

[RDKirk]

Spiritual communication, fuzzy feelings, thoughts popping into your mind, speaking to your interior,.... call it what you want, it is all unbiblical. There is only one way that God spoke to prophets in scripture and that was by speaking.

What do you mean "by speaking?"

 

[W2L]

That's a real fool irrelevant question, but as you obviously think death is somehow advancing the kingdom, I was just a wondering, ...maybe...……………were you part of the Rev Jim Jones crowd by any chance?
They were into that sort of thing.

Actually i find great comfort in the fact that we are being born again. That is my healing.

 

[Francis Drake]

When a Christian dies, that is the time ordained bY God, not by satan, correct?

You are wrong, as Satan frequently ordains death.
The Lord obviously knows before creation when anyone will die, but that fact does not infer that God ordains he dies that day, or by what method.
The enemy comes to kill steal and destroy. That puts the choice of murder in the hands of the enemy.

We live in a fallen world, and death is a curse, a robbery, a bereavement.
In contrast, long life is a blessing to any man.

Your false theology blames God for ordaining millions of babies to be murdered in the womb!

 

[Francis Drake]

So you have revelation? What need do you have for an apostle, teacher, or prophet then?

Are you serious? You express such distain towards the wonderful gifts the Lord would bestow on you..

But yes, I have had many revelations over the years, as indeed we are supposed to. But that does not mean I understand everything, nor have I ever claimed as much! I still need the fellowship of my brothers and sisters who also move in their gifts, which I greatly value.

What do you suppose Paul means when he prays.-
Ephesians1v17that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give to you a spirit of wisdom and of revelation in the knowledge of Him. 18I pray that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened,
Asking for the "spirit of wisdom and revelation" is a fool thing to do if you reject the very concept of receiving a revelation!

Again, what do you suppose this means?
James1v5But if any of you lacks wisdom, let him ask of God, who gives to all generously and without reproach, and it will be given to him.
That's the request, but, there is a condition attached.-
6But he must ask in faith without any doubting, for the one who doubts is like the surf of the sea, driven and tossed by the wind. 7For that man ought not to expect that he will receive anything from the Lord, 8being a double-minded man, unstable in all his ways.
Cessationists don't merely doubt, they angrily attack and denounce anyone who claims to be given such wisdom and revelation.
Cessationists boast about living the Christian life devoid of any such gift.

 

[Billy Evmur]

He did NOT mean that we can raise the dead, forgive sins, grant eternal life as he did, but that we can a greater number in that we can as the Body of Christ here reach out to many more people than he could be localized in a human body!

Oh you speak about the body of Christ, praise the Lord, Paul only in Corinthians speaks about the body of Christ.

Now you are the body of Christ and individually members of it. And God has appointed in the church first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then workers of miracles, then healers, helpers, administrators, speakers in various kinds of tongues. Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? do all work miracles? do all possess gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?

But earnestly desire the higher gifts. And I will show you a still more excellent way.

 

[Billy Evmur]

And if we are not healed, is it because we don't have enough faith?

There are 1,000 times more messengers of unbelief in the church than those preaching faith.

And it's a bit rich to go spouting unbelief and then complaining that you do not see the miraculous.

 

[W2L]

Are you serious? You express such distain towards the wonderful gifts the Lord would bestow on you..

But yes, I have had many revelations over the years, as indeed we are supposed to. But that does not mean I understand everything, nor have I ever claimed as much! I still need the fellowship of my brothers and sisters who also move in their gifts, which I greatly value.

What do you suppose Paul means when he prays.-
Ephesians1v17that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give to you a spirit of wisdom and of revelation in the knowledge of Him. 18I pray that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened,
Asking for the "spirit of wisdom and revelation" is a fool thing to do if you reject the very concept of receiving a revelation!

Again, what do you suppose this means?
James1v5But if any of you lacks wisdom, let him ask of God, who gives to all generously and without reproach, and it will be given to him.
That's the request, but, there is a condition attached.-
6But he must ask in faith without any doubting, for the one who doubts is like the surf of the sea, driven and tossed by the wind. 7For that man ought not to expect that he will receive anything from the Lord, 8being a double-minded man, unstable in all his ways.
Cessationists don't merely doubt, they angrily attack and denounce anyone who claims to be given such wisdom and revelation.
Cessationists boast about living the Christian life devoid of any such gift.

No. I just asked a simple question.

 

[swordsman1]

No he was not using it loosly as you try to claim, he said , to them, (the Thessalonians whom he and Timotheous and Silvanus were writing to)

"neither of you, nor yet of others, when we [Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus,] might have been burdensome, as the apostles of Christ.”

and which verses are you referring to about Paul with Silus or Timotheous? He may have been with one or both of them at certain moments. But clearly he speaks of all three of them in different situations or either one with him at times.

"...Many expositors, however, from this and the next verse, infer that Timothy at least joined Paul at Athens, but was sent back by him to Thessalonica, to inquire into the condition of his converts in that city. Such is the opinion of Olshausen, Neander, De Wette, Lunemann, Hofmann, Koch, and Schott; and, among English expositors, of Macknight, Paley, Eadie, Jowett, Ellicott, and Wordsworth. There is no contradiction between this view and the narrative of the Acts. Luke merely omits to mention Timothy's short visit to Athens and departure from it,..."(Pulpit commentary)

the "we in 3:1 could literally mean we or Paul speaking of their ministry in different times either together or in part. So still the words "as the apostles of Christ refers to Paul Silvanus and Timotheus. Clearly from his words.

I simply believe paul and scripture. I don't try to explain it away or ascribe to it a textual error etc.

And yet a few verses earlier Paul said "we had already suffered and been mistreated in Philippi". But Timothy was not in Philippi.

And a few verses later the "we" in 1 Thes 3:1 certainly cannot include Timothy because in the very next verse it says Timothy was sent away from Athens back to Thessolonica. And Silas almost certainly departed as well, because Paul left Athens alone in Acts 18:1 and was later rejoined by both Timothy and Silas in Acts 18:5. So the "we" in 1 Thes 3:1 must have been Paul alone, as the "alone" in that verse would indicate.

So either Paul was using the word 'we' loosely in this epistle, or you are calling Paul a liar. Thus there is no reason to suppose the "we" in 1 Thes 2:6 must be all three of them.

Additionally, if Timothy was an apostle Paul would not have said in a couple of his other epistles, "Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus...and Timothy our brother”. It would have been "Paul and Timothy, apostles of Christ Jesus". There was never any indication elsewhere that Timothy was an apostle. He was always regarded as Paul's underling.

So I'm afraid you are very much mistaken.

 

[swordsman1]

You only have 1900 years of church history on your side because the institutional system was created and run by people like you, who tortured and murdered anyone who didn't believe the same as you.

That's a lie. Where is your evidence that cessationists persecuted continuists out of existence?

The 'sign gifts' ceased because God withdrew them after they had fulfilled their purpose. What the pentecostal/charismatic movement has touted in the last 100 years are counterfeits. None of today's tongues, prophecy, apostles, etc match the biblical descriptions of those gifts. People have been duped.

Calvin, a favourite amongst cessationists, murdered his theological opponent. Does that also prove Calvinism?

More lies. The 'murder' that arminians like to falsely accuse Calvin of was his minor role in the trial of a heretic. The heretic was found guilty and in those days the legal punishment for heresy was death.

Was God also a murderer for ordaining that false prophets be put to death in the Old Testament? If we were living in the same theocracy today the charismatic movement would be very quickly extinguished!

Not only are you lying, but I see you are employing the 'guilt by association' fallacy to try and tar cessationists with the same brush. You must be getting desperate if you have to resort to such underhand tactics in order to try and win the debate.

 

[swordsman1]

Oh dear oh dear, and you are the one who keeps boasting that you only follow the bible. Well according to statement above, that bible of yours is now no longer infallible.

If only apostles are gifted to write infallible theologies, you'd best tear Mark's and Luke's gospels out, along with the Book of Acts.
Perhaps you didn't notice, but neither Mark, nor Luke are listed as apostles.

Maybe you'd like to back pedal your statement a little.

I might also point out that despite claiming to follow your infallible scriptures, your explanations of them is an awful long way from infallible.

You have made a rather glaring error..... Mark and Luke didn't decree theological doctrine. They wrote narratives on the lives of Jesus and the Apostles.

 

[swordsman1]

But given that Jesus commanded us to cast demons out as a part of the great commission, you must either be casting them out of non believers, or being rebellious and lazy.

Where did Jesus "command us" to cast out demons in the great commision? Another gaff I'm afraid.