Was King David Saved While He Committed His Sins of Adultery and Murder?

[Bible Highlighter]

The Holy Spirit is leading each of us to truth. God teaches us when we are in error and convicts us of our sin unto repentance.

I'm not sure why you think God would agree with something sinful, but then the Holy Spirit is a teacher and sometimes the same lesson needs to be taught more than one time for the person to learn.

No. I am not saying that I believe that God will lead a person into anything sinful or to think sinfully. That is what I believe the OSAS belief (Which I do not agree with) does because it says nothing can separate a person from God (Including their sin).

 

[Bible Highlighter]

That's not what it means that God is Ominpresent, Omnipotent and Omniscient.

Just because you don't understand how God exists outside of time, doesn't mean that it is wrong. It just means you don't understand this aspect of God.

Jesus said their were some things he didn't share with His disciples because they were spiritual and beyond the disciples spiritual understanding.

Maybe God has to get you to a place of spiritual understanding where you can understand God being outside of time.

Nowhere did I ever deny God being Omnipresent, Omnipotent, and Omniscient. Nor was I equating these things in regards to God and time, either. While God certainly does have the power to create time in such a way whereby He could exist in all points in time (past, present, and future - suggesting that there is some kind of past dimension that still exists), that does not mean that this is true. In fact, we know it is not true because it would contradict Scripture. Man's concept of time is based on Science Fiction from time travel movies, and books, etc.

 

[ToBeLoved]

No. I am not saying that I believe that God will lead a person into anything sinful or to think sinfully. That is what I believe the OSAS belief (Which I do not agree with) does because it says nothing can separate a person from God (Including their sin).

Anyone that believes God is perfect and holy does not believe God leads people into sin.

You really do not understand the premise behind OSAS.

God’s attributes of being Perfect and Holy are who He is.

Just because God doesn’t treat salvation like a yo-yo going back and forth is God’s keeping His Covenant.

OSAS supports God’s being Holy, Perfect and Just

 

[ToBeLoved]

Nowhere did I ever deny God being Omnipresent, Omnipotent, and Omniscient. Nor was I equating these things in regards to God and time, either. While God certainly does have the power to create time in such a way whereby He could exist in all points in time (past, present, and future - suggesting that there is some kind of past dimension that still exists), that does not mean that this is true. In fact, we know it is not true because it would contradict Scripture. Man's concept of time is based on Science Fiction from time travel movies, and books, etc.

god doesn’t exist within time.

Earth and human beings exist in time, so we can understand things in a sequence.

God knows all. God doesn’t need time. God creates all things.

How could God say He knew us before creation if God is held to time? or that Christ was the Lamb that was slain before creation if God is held to time? Or that He knew us before we were?

 

[SkyWriting]

Not all sin is the same. There are commands in the Bible that are not attached with severe consequences to our souls if we disobey them.

Romans 6:23
For the wages of sin is death

 

[SkyWriting]

The sin is strong with this one.

People take note...it's responses like this that indicate an unregenetate heart. People who are regenerated don't sweep blatant sin under the "all sin is sin" rug.

Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death

James 2:10
Whoever keeps the whole Law but stumbles at just one point
is guilty of breaking all of it.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Romans 6:23
For the wages of sin is death

1 John 5:16-17.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

god doesn’t exist within time.

Earth and human beings exist in time, so we can understand things in a sequence.

God knows all. God doesn’t need time. God creates all things.

How could God say He knew us before creation if God is held to time? or that Christ was the Lamb that was slain before creation if God is held to time? Or that He knew us before we were?

God is constantly interacting with our physical universe that is constrained by time. So to say God does not exist in time is an oxymoron.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Well I read them and in the first one the links didn't work.

Here are all the same audio files in MP3 format on another website.

Christian Testimonies | Former Eternal Security Proponents

I checked the first one and it worked.

 

[SkyWriting]

1 John 5:16-17.

The sin that leads to death is the one unpardonable sin.
This sin is rejecting the Holy SPirit.
The Reason this one sin leads to certain death is that the
unbeliever builds a wall were they refuse to trust in God's
forgiveness. If you don't have faith in and trust God
then you refuse His forgiveness.

So even this one sin could be forgiven, if only the unbeliever
had faith in God, which they don't.

So by refusing forgiveness, this leads them to Hell.
The one sin that does lead to death.

All other sins do not ensure death, becasue they can be forgiven.
But refusing God's forgiveness blocks salvation.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

The sin that leads to death is the one unpardonable sin.
This sin is rejecting the Holy SPirit.
The Reason this one sin leads to certain death is that the
unbeliever builds a wall were they refuse to trust in God's
forgiveness. If you don't have faith in and trust God
then you refuse His forgiveness.

So even this one sin could be forgiven, if only the unbeliever
had faith in God, which they don't.

So by refusing forgiveness, this leads them to Hell.
The one sin that does lead to death.

All other sins do not ensure death, becasue they can be forgiven.
But refusing God's forgiveness blocks salvation.

Don't you think it is kind of odd how John never mentions this kind of belief anywhere in his epistle? I see John mention the context of the "sin unto death" as willful sin that a person is justifying in some way and that they are not confessing with the genuine intent that they are going to forsake that sin (So as to be forgiven). How so?

Well, the "sin unto death" is the gnostic belief that justified willful sin. The gnostics were trying to seduce the brethren (1 John 2:26). So John was warning the brethren about the gnostic belief that held to the idea that sin was an illusion or sin did not exist for them (1 John 1:8) (1 John 1:10). John tells us to "sin not" (1 John 2:1). So sinning is not way of life for us. But if a believer happened to sin by some chance, they are to acknowledge the existence of sin by confessing it to Jesus (who is our advocate) so as to be forgiven (1 John 1:9) (1 John 2:1). No forgiveness means there is no salvation. Confessed sin (with the intent on forsaking it) is the "sin that is not unto death." Also, if we don't walk in the light, the blood of Jesus will not cleanse us of all sin (1 John 1:7) (Note: Walking (abiding) in the light is loving your brother - see 1 John 2:9-10; And loving your neighbor is the equivalent of keeping the Moral Law - see: Romans 13:8-10). For that person who says they know the Lord and does not keep His commandments is a liar and the truth is not in them (1 John 2:4). Proverbs 28:13 says he that confesses and forsakes sin shall have mercy.

"For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous." (1 John 5:3). Obviously this includes believing in Jesus (1 John 5:5) and being born again (1 John 5:4), which is the entrance and foundation of one's salvation. Immediately after John tells us about the "sin uno death" (1 John 5:16), and the "sin not unto death" in John 5:17, he says this:

18 "We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.
19 And we know that we are of God, and the whole world lieth in wickedness."
(1 John 5:18-19).

1 John 5:18 is repeating 1 John 3:9. It is saying that whosever is in the born again state and abides in Jesus (1 John 3:6), does not sin (willfully) whereby they are seeking to justify sin (1 John 1:8). 1 John 5:18 says, He that is truly born again (or begotten of God) keeps himself by obeying God's commands and the wicked one touches him not. James 4:7 says, "Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you." 1 John 5:19 says we know we are of God (1 John 2:3), and the whole world lies in wickedness. But everyone who does evil hates the light (John 3:20). Men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil (John 3:19).

God is not a respecter of persons: But in every nation he that fears him, and works righteousness, is accepted with him (Acts of the Apostles 10:34-35)

Romans 2:11-12 says, “For there is no respect of persons with God. For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;”.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

The sin that leads to death is the one unpardonable sin.
This sin is rejecting the Holy SPirit.
The Reason this one sin leads to certain death is that the
unbeliever builds a wall were they refuse to trust in God's
forgiveness. If you don't have faith in and trust God
then you refuse His forgiveness.

So even this one sin could be forgiven, if only the unbeliever
had faith in God, which they don't.

So by refusing forgiveness, this leads them to Hell.
The one sin that does lead to death.

All other sins do not ensure death, becasue they can be forgiven.
But refusing God's forgiveness blocks salvation.

The "sin not unto death" and the "sin unto death" also has to make sense in light of the situation that was going on, too.

1 John 5:16 says,
"If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it."

Okay, two things are taking place here.

One, if we see a brother who commits a sin that is not unto death, we are to pray (ask) so as to give this brother (who is committing this sin not unto death) life or victory over this particular sin that does not lead unto death.

1 John 5:14-15
14 "And this is the confidence that we have in him, that, if we ask any thing according to his will, he heareth us:
15 And if we know that he hear us, whatsoever we ask, we know that we have the petitions that we desired of him."

Jesus is our advocate that we can go to in our help in time of need (1 John 2:1).

So if a fellow Christian is struggling with a sin that they are confessing, we can help them to overcome it by praying for them. This is the sin that is not unto death. For if we confess our sins he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins (1 John 1:9). If we walk in the light, he cleanses us from all sin (1 John 1:7).

Second, the "sin unto death" is simply abiding in wickedness like the world. They justify sin. So if we see a brother justifying sin, John is telling the brethren (us) that we are not forbidden in praying for them (But our focus should be praying for the brethren first). For they are concerned with obeying God and they do not lie in wickedness like the rest of the world. You see the "sin not unto death" as merely unbelief. Hebrews 10:26 says if we willfully sin after we receive the knowledge of the truth, there remains no more sacrifice for sin. John says all who do evil hate the light (John 3:20).

In your view, the "sin not unto death" does not make any sense. Why pray for a person to give them life (victory) over their sin if they already have victory and life in Jesus Christ by having a mere belief alone on Jesus? A believer who struggles with a sin and is confessing it is hoping to overcome and gain life in walking uprightly (1 John 1:7). Your belief here does not make any sense in light of what John has said.

 

[Neogaia777]

The sin that leads to death is the one unpardonable sin.
This sin is rejecting the Holy SPirit.
The Reason this one sin leads to certain death is that the
unbeliever builds a wall were they refuse to trust in God's
forgiveness. If you don't have faith in and trust God
then you refuse His forgiveness.

So even this one sin could be forgiven, if only the unbeliever
had faith in God, which they don't.

So by refusing forgiveness, this leads them to Hell.
The one sin that does lead to death.

All other sins do not ensure death, becasue they can be forgiven.
But refusing God's forgiveness blocks salvation.

Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit, every other kind of sin a man can turn away from, but this... and what if that Spirit is YHWH...?

See my posts here, if you dare: Omniscience, YHWH and Jesus Christ, one new God and/or God/Man...? Warning this is not milk...

God Bless!

 

[ToBeLoved]

Nowhere did I ever deny God being Omnipresent, Omnipotent, and Omniscient. Nor was I equating these things in regards to God and time, either. While God certainly does have the power to create time in such a way whereby He could exist in all points in time (past, present, and future - suggesting that there is some kind of past dimension that still exists), that does not mean that this is true. In fact, we know it is not true because it would contradict Scripture. Man's concept of time is based on Science Fiction from time travel movies, and books, etc.

Please share verses that show God being Omnipresent, Omnipotent, and Omniscient is a contridiction in scripture.

 

[ToBeLoved]

God is constantly interacting with our physical universe that is constrained by time. So to say God does not exist in time is an oxymoron.

No it's not.

How can God be eternal with no beginning and no end if God exists within time?

If God created all things including the universe and time, why would God have an issue with time.

Jesus birth, death and ressurection, since He was human existed at a specific point in time. His death was about 33AD.

Since Jesus is God, how can you say God cannot exist within time, yet be eternal and exist outside of time.

 

[ToBeLoved]

No. I am not saying that I believe that God will lead a person into anything sinful or to think sinfully. That is what I believe the OSAS belief (Which I do not agree with) does because it says nothing can separate a person from God (Including their sin).

You do not understand OSAS.

OSAS does indeed say that sin can separate God and man, in fellowship, which is why repentance is necessary.

We do not believe that sin can affect salvation because it is not our justification it is Christ's justification that is in our place.

If you can show Christ sinned or that His life was not perfect then that would affect Christ's perfect justification or being our Advocate to the Father.

I wish you understood OSAS because correcting your misunderstanding is tiring.

 

[mark kennedy]

No it's not.

How can God be eternal with no beginning and no end if God exists within time?

If God created all things including the universe and time, why would God have an issue with time.

Jesus birth, death and ressurection, since He was human existed at a specific point in time. His death was about 33AD.

Since Jesus is God, how can you say God cannot exist within time, yet be eternal and exist outside of time.

Theologians call that the 'aseity of God' or God's utter independence and self existence. God being eternal transcends time and space, that has to do with God being omnipotent. It's not that God doesn't exist within time, but that God is bigger then time and space, being separate and independent of his created universe.

 

[ToBeLoved]

Theologians call that the 'aseity of God' or God's utter independence and self existence. God being eternal transcends time and space, that has to do with God being omnipotent. It's not that God doesn't exist within time, but that God is bigger then time and space, being separate and independent of his created universe.

Yup.

Why would any Christian think God is held within confines of His Own creation. It's beyond me.

 

[mark kennedy]

You do not understand OSAS.

OSAS does indeed say that sin can separate God and man, in fellowship, which is why repentance is necessary.

We do not believe that sin can affect salvation because it is not our justification it is Christ's justification that is in our place.

If you can show Christ sinned or that His life was not perfect then that would affect Christ's perfect justification or being our Advocate to the Father.

I wish you understood OSAS because correcting your misunderstanding is tiring.

There is no formal doctrine of OSAS, the actual term is eternal security. Calvinists are not dismissing the dangers of sin, only emphasizing that they key to repentance and good works in Christ is grace. Eternal security is synonymous with eternal life, what is the alternative, temporary salvation? Jason has this odd sort of a doctrine that when you sin you lose salvation, yet there are none of us who do not sin (1 John 1:8, Romans 3:10). We do get some pretty specific guidance on how to be better self controlled, James suggests controlling the tongue (James 3:2). I just don't think God turns salvation off and on like a water spigot. Your not going to get very many Christians who buy into it, that doctrine is unknown in the New Testament. Your either saved or your not, if you fall away from the faith your lost forever (Hebrews 6:4-6).

It's the only doctrinal issue he really argues and it's indefensible. Yet he persists mainly because he doesn't have to respond with any real expositions, just a long list of verse citations. It's just not a formula for sound doctrine, it gets more into private interpretation. Other then that he is pretty harmless, just don't chase his arguments in circles, you'll just get dizzy.

Grace and peace,
Mark

 

[mark kennedy]

Yup.

Why would any Christian think God is held within confines of His Own creation. It's beyond me.

Of course God is not limited to time and space, yet God is omnipresent throughout his creation. God for instance knows the end from the beginning, he doesn't have to wait for the passage of time to know how all this ends because he controls it.