Was King David Saved While He Committed His Sins of Adultery and Murder?

[DeeR.]

So what you are saying is that knowledge of the Greek is not of help in better understanding of Scripture. I find your notion to be preposterous. After all, the translators needed to understand the original language did they not? It is also helpful if we understand some of it also, not that we need to become experts ourselves but that we can understand/discern the Word better for ourselves.

Isn't it interesting that you both draw your own conclusion and answer it in the same sentence, then follow up with a derogatory remark.... why? Be at peace. Be graceful humble and seek unity in Love is what we are admonished to do.... not be resentful or angry especially on a public forum.

4My message and my preaching were not with wise and persuasive words, but with a demonstration of the Spirit's power,
5so that your faith might not rest on human wisdom, but on God's power.

 

[Oldmantook]

How do you say correct then totally come against what he said. Speaking from both sides of the mouth is a contradiction and confusion in belief. Judas was ordained for such. And not for salvation. This is what you plainly refuse to believe. John 6:39 does not include Judas

Why don't you first pay attention to and wrestle with Jn 17:6-12 and explain to me what it doesn't say what I wrote it says? You only give me your opinion which is not worth a whole lot without scriptural backing. I suggest you do so if you want to back your opinion. As for Jn 6:39, why don't you read the next verse? The Greek word for believe in v.40 is a present tense participle more accurately translated as "believing." Only those who keep believing will have eternal life and never be lost. If one stops believing, eternal life is no longer had.

 

[Oldmantook]

It does when on a public forum. If I speak in a language that when others read/hear they are not edified, but only you and me, then I should have private conversations; In the same way that people speaking french on this public forum just takes up space and only benefits one or two.

One is edified when the truth is revealed. You are picky about words used but refrain from giving scriptural backing to your belief which I find to be unconvincing and unproductive so given your history of replies to me, it's just best to say we agree to disagree.

 

[DeeR.]

Unsure if I understand. OSAS are masters of word games. V.21 states they are "now reconciled." Doesn't 'now' by definition mean 'presently'? So yes, we are now/presently reconciled if we continue in the faith. In other words, we remain reconciled as long we continue in the faith. How can one remain/continue in the faith if he did not have faith to begin with? That's the question OSAS prefer to ignore.

Could you please stop being derogatory toward Christians of a specific belief. No group is a master at word games. Individuals of all sides of these issues play word games. Just because someone does not agree with your interpretation doesn't justify you saying they are all masters at word games. It is insulting toward them and not in a good spirit.

 

[Oldmantook]

Could you please stop being derogatory toward Christians of a specific belief. No group is a master at word games. Individuals of all sides of these issues play word games. Just because someone does not agree with your interpretation doesn't justify you saying they are all masters at word games. It is insulting toward them and not in a good spirit.

Could you please stop dictating what I should or not do? Is that not a reasonable request? If you wish to debate then use Scripture to back your opinion instead of just voicing your opinion.

 

[DeeR.]

One is edified when the truth is revealed. You are picky about words used but refrain from giving scriptural backing to your belief which I find to be unconvincing and unproductive so given your history of replies to me, it's just best to say we agree to disagree.

It is said that the Spirit convicts of all truths and that the heart tests words... Jesus often said it is written without needing to always site a verse or chapter. You are use to debating people rather than seek peace and unity, so although I can site scriptures very easily I feel it unnecessary in these cases because you are using a public forum to be argumentative and derogatory rather than Loving and helpful. I respond to your comments not because I want to debate with you but because this is public and I care about those who read what you write.

 

[MDC]

Why don't you first pay attention to and wrestle with Jn 17:6-12 and explain to me what it doesn't say what I wrote it says? You only give me your opinion which is not worth a whole lot without scriptural backing. I suggest you do so if you want to back your opinion. As for Jn 6:39, why don't you read the next verse? The Greek word for believe in v.40 is a present tense participle more accurately translated as "believing." Only those who keep believing will have eternal life and never be lost. If one stops believing, eternal life is no longer had.

You contradict what Christ said in vs 39 as I put forth on the previous post to justify your opinion of a man centered works message that denies the gospel of Christ. This message of meriting to keep salvation by self righteous works is anti gospel and anti Christ. Christ was praying for His sheep only. Not the reprobate. Judas was ordained for such, a vessel of wrath fitted for destruction. He was not among Gods sheep

 

[DeeR.]

Could you please stop dictating what I should or not do? Is that not a reasonable request? If you wish to debate then use Scripture to back your opinion instead of just voicing your opinion.

I have not dictated anything but simply asked you to stop using a public forum to be derogatory and singling groups of Christians out for you target. Be at peace my friend.

 

[Oldmantook]

It is said that the Spirit convicts of all truths and that the heart tests words... Jesus often said it is written without needing to always site a verse or chapter. You are use to debating people rather than seek peace and unity, so although I can site scriptures very easily I feel it unnecessary in these cases because you are using a public forum to be argumentative and derogatory rather than Loving and helpful. I respond to your comments not because I want to debate with you but because this is public and I care about those who read what you write.

We debate and base our opinions upon Scripture. Since you steadfastly refuse to use Scripture, I have no further interest in discussing anything with you so this is my last reply.

 

[DeeR.]

We debate and base our opinions upon Scripture. Since you steadfastly refuse to use Scripture, I have no further interest in discussing anything with you so this is my last reply.

Everything I have said to you is in line with the Spirit of Christ and His teachings so why are you so angry and insistent on citing verses and chapters since they did not exist until later times? Would you also tell Jesus to be more specific as to where some scripture is or would you seek unity based on truth instead of technical knowledge. How would you speak to unbelievers who do not know the scriptures? With many quotes? Jesus did not always talk to people in quotes but spoke plainly. If you can not have a conversation without quotes I would suggest only speaking to the scholars, not only a public forum.

 

[DeeR.]

So what you are saying is that knowledge of the Greek is not of help in better understanding of Scripture. I find your notion to be preposterous. After all, the translators needed to understand the original language did they not? It is also helpful if we understand some of it also, not that we need to become experts ourselves but that we can understand/discern the Word better for ourselves.

If one never understands or learns Greek in his or her life are they at a disadvantage? Does God not reveal His word to the poor and uneducated in the same way He does to the learned?

 

[DeeR.]

Let me elaborate. We are talking about two kinds of people here. One kind is people who are not true believers. In other words perhaps they are just seekers or whatever but they have not yet believed; are not converted and not regenerated by the Holy Spirit like many in the church today who attend church but are not actually saved. So we both agree with what 1 Jn 2:19 states: "They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us. But they went out, that it might become plain that they all are not of us. This verse states that those who left were not of us; i.e, not believers. However it is important to note that this kind of people (unbelievers) cannot apostatize because they never belonged to the faith in the first place. The Greek word for apostasy is parapiptō. It is significant to note that this word is not employed in 1 Jn 2:19. As far as I know, this word is only used in Heb 6:6. So Heb 6:6 refers to believers who apostatize. 1 Jn 2:19 on the other hand just refers to those who were not believers but simply left and no longer remained the church. This verse simply states that they "went out from us." It does not state that they apostatized as it is impossible for unbelievers to apostatize.
We have people who drop out of the church who were never believers. We also have people who drop out of the church and commit apostasy who were actual believers. The former group cannot be said to apostatize because they were never part of the faith. The latter group are said to apostatize because they were indeed at one time, part of the faith.

Oye Vey I am glad I do not need a degree to receive the Spirits revelation and harmony of scripture.

 

[ToBeLoved]

If one never understands or learns Greek in his or her life are they at a disadvantage? Does God not reveal His word to the poor and uneducated in the same way He does to the learned?

To be fair though, there are many Bible Study resources online that make using the original Greek fairly easy.

You may want to go to a site like Biblehub.com, look up any verse, and the choose Interlinear Greek from the menu while having the chosen verse on the screen. It will then take you to the Greek translation parsed word for word, tell you what
Form of speech each word is ( like preposition or verb) and provide access instantly to other tools.

It is a tool to try to study better, not that most of us know Greek.

At least that is how I use it as a study tool.

Like I use maps to visualize Paul’s different missionary journeys. It’s an aide not the end all to be all, so to speak

 

[DeeR.]

To be fair though, there are many Bible Study resources online that make using the original Greek fairly easy.

You may want to go to a site like Biblehub.com, look up any verse, and the choose Interlinear Greek from the menu while having the chosen verse on the screen. It will then take you to the Greek translation parsed word for word, tell you what
Form of speech each word is ( like preposition or verb) and provide access instantly to other tools. I would cringe to think anyone speaks to those not familiar with scripture in such ways.

It is a tool to try to study better, not that most of us know Greek.

At least that is how I use it as a study tool.

Like I use maps to visualize Paul’s different missionary journeys. It’s an aide not the end all to be all, so to speak

I do appreciate it my friend, glad you wrote it so whoever needs to can find it.. I do have a lot of time in, in Greek/Hebrew studies. I never spoke against it as he implied and was rude about. It is one thing to use it to aid learning, quite another to bombard others with and expect. This is a forum not a college class. When we talk to others it should not be scholarly or with eloquent debates but beneficial to all who hear/read.

 

[DeeR.]

Duplicate message

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Everything I have said to you is in line with the Spirit of Christ and His teachings so why are you so angry and insistent on citing verses and chapters since they did not exist until later times? Would you also tell Jesus to be more specific as to where some scripture is or would you seek unity based on truth instead of technical knowledge. How would you speak to unbelievers who do not know the scriptures? With many quotes? Jesus did not always talk to people in quotes but spoke plainly. If you can not have a conversation without quotes I would suggest only speaking to the scholars, not only a public forum.

Faith comes by hearing, and hearing the Word of God (Romans 10:17). If you are suggesting we build faith outside the Bible, that would be in conflict with God’s Word.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

If one never understands or learns Greek in his or her life are they at a disadvantage? Does God not reveal His word to the poor and uneducated in the same way He does to the learned?

I actually agree with you on this point.

 

[DeeR.]

Faith comes by hearing, and hearing the Word of God (Romans 10:17). If you are suggesting we build faith outside the Bible, that would be in conflict with God’s Word.

Well both yes and no my friend. I was not suggesting that, but since you are mentioning it... Our faith comes from many sources not merely the scriptures. The scriptures are 1 source of our faith. The Word of God is Living not merely written in pages but is written in the hearts of mankind. We have the Scriptures "the Old Testament writings" we have Christian teachings from many Christians throughout the ages, We have testimonies, We have the witness of the Spirit and conviction, we have the assembly of the saints, we have new testament writings, and we have nature itself etc..... The Word being referred to is the Living Word/ God Himself in the Spirit within the Believers and in all of existence. All are in harmony and all are to be used together.
I am also reminded of the witness and testimony of the saints that missioned into Nepal and found believers who never had a missionary come to them or a single scripture but when they communicated, the believers in Nepal spoke of visions and revelations given to them consistent with Jesus' messages. So here we also have gifts of the Spirit, again all in harmony. These are all consistent with scriptures and teachings from Jesus.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Saying this is not your first Rodeo is completely unnecessary as is pointing out your years of experience as a basis for why you feel your are correct. If we are to boast about qualifications that are worldly I could boast that I have literally spent 11 years on this specific topic, have more time studying the scriptures and biblical sources than Doctorate graduates have missioned and lived among hundreds of people for years and spoken to & read & debated with more people than I can count. I have also been on both sides of the issue.... but what should be said about this is that none of that matters at all or holds any weight because the simplest new born in Jesus can receive the truth and have wisdom given by the Spirit the same way as one walking with God for 120 years. All things to my credit and experience are a loss compared to just knowing Him and allowing His wisdom to prevail.
I am not your enemy and neither is the teaching being spoken. I do not want to be right or win and I certainly do not want to offend you or harm you. I would much rather that we take the stance that we be prayerful and no matter how long we have believed a matter or how much we have debated it we can always be open to know we do not know as we should in any matter. It is human nature to believe something and always see & find evidence to support whatever side of the issue we are on. The goal of Jesus though is for us to all be united in 1 mind in truth. So before we seek to defend the truth and a doctrine we should ask ourselves, 'is unity my desire?' I have many times been humbled in tears before God knowing He desired unity among the church pleading with God to humble me more and teach me more that if in any way I could see clearer He would help me to be a vessel more for unity in His truth'.
Of course Jesus was right in whatever He said, that does not justify our interpretations though. Quoting Jesus and saying He was right is not a support to our reasoning of what He said. You say I know I know I know a lot my friend but I do not know as I ought to on any subject like that. I do not know as much as you.
Whether they are men or women (people) for or against an issue, the issue is that they are loved by God first & foremost and we are ambassadors (not originators) of Peace Unity Grace and Love above all else.
I have already answered the question about David.
Lets not argue. Can we rather see we both care about our Father and His will and stop thinking we are on a crusade to defend the truth at all costs. God is the defender and also wants us to trust Him to make all things clear without constant disputes and divisions. We have enemies to fight in the spiritual realm and have spent too much time attacking one another.

You said:

“Try to hear what people are actually saying and be less quick to label everybody and their beliefs and you may find you are just reading into what others are saying beyond what is being said.”​

And I am telling you that what you think people are saying is not true based on my experience in discussing this topic for 7 years.

I have also specifically studied the Scriptures on the false belief of Eternal Security or Belief Alone for 7 years. It is not to boast, but it is to merely show you that I know this topic fairly well and the different kinds of people and variations of these beliefs.

Oh, and no. A person does not automatically know everything in the Bible overnight. That is simply not true. It takes years of study with God and not at a church or school where they force feed you what they want you to hear.

Christians will backslide and need to repent, they will desire wrong things and be led astray at times.”

Are you speaking from your personal belief or from the Bible? If it is from the Bible, we need verses. Oh and if what you say is true, what do you make of the 144,000 who were without fault before the throne of God in Revelation 14:3-5?

 

[DeeR.]

I actually agree with you on this point.

I am glad we can agree on something Our goal is to love the truth and believers and seek unity within our hearts and love so He may reveal Jesus in us fully.