Is a loveless marriage really a marriage?

[corinth77777]

EDIT: ** My goodness, people! Read the post before answering!**

There have been a few threads regarding marriage and divorce recently that really got me worked up with the theme of “one and done or you’re going to hell.”

So this got me thinking about a few married couples in loveless/sexless marriages that I know. The older you get, you may know some also.

Two couples that I know sleep in separate bedrooms and take separate vacations. They are nothing but roommates with kids. Another couple has been separated for about 5 years but won’t divorce because “it’s a sin”.

At what point do you believe that a marriage, while still legally valid, is no longer meeting Gods idea of marriage?

I believe that staying in an emotionally or physically abusive marriage or in one devoid of love and respect solely because “God hates divorce” is pure legalism. I think that God hates divorce because of what it does to his people. Aren’t loveless marriages contrary to his desire as well?

**I am not including anyone in a marriage that is physically or psychologically unable to have sex, only those who choose not to be intimate.

Well every man aught to be convinced in his own heart should be our final answer..

If a person chooses to stay....cannot God save Him also through the believer??

So no one can truly tell what God is saying to this individual that suffers hardship.

So I would never tell anyone to divorce for let no man put asunder....right?

However, look at the condition in which Moses allowed....Because the heart was hard. With a HARD HEART the effect is mistreatment.
With that said, legalism in my mind is when one is more concerned about appearance than the transformation of the human spirit.

If the Goal is the human heart...so that the outside would be clean also then I believe it is possible for one that remains in an abusive marriage strictly for appearance only to be legalism.
So depending on circumstances consult God if one decides to separate.

 

[derpytia]

EDIT: ** My goodness, people! Read the post before answering!**

There have been a few threads regarding marriage and divorce recently that really got me worked up with the theme of “one and done or you’re going to hell.”

So this got me thinking about a few married couples in loveless/sexless marriages that I know. The older you get, you may know some also.

Two couples that I know sleep in separate bedrooms and take separate vacations. They are nothing but roommates with kids. Another couple has been separated for about 5 years but won’t divorce because “it’s a sin”.

At what point do you believe that a marriage, while still legally valid, is no longer meeting Gods idea of marriage?

I believe that staying in an emotionally or physically abusive marriage or in one devoid of love and respect solely because “God hates divorce” is pure legalism. I think that God hates divorce because of what it does to his people. Aren’t loveless marriages contrary to his desire as well?

**I am not including anyone in a marriage that is physically or psychologically unable to have sex, only those who choose not to be intimate.

Yes, it is a marriage.

An incredibly TERRIBLE and SAD marriage and I feel for married couples who have marriages like this. But it's still a marriage nonetheless.

As far as I'm concerned, sex or no sex, if you take vows before God to be the wife or husband of someone, you are married. I know a married couple where the wife is physically unable to have sex because of various health problems and disability. They have never had sex and yet they are faithful and loving to each other as husband and wife and have taken vows before God. Their marriage is still valid in the eyes of God.

But as I understand it, life on this earth has endless problems so it would make sense that no marriage is completely and totally perfect.

 

[lastofall]

[for me anyway] it is a matter of our foes shall be they of our own household which the Lord Jesus Christ tells us plainly, and seeing that whatsoever proceeds out of His mouth is Truth, therefore shall even this be so.
therefore is an household one shall put their trust into the hands of righteousness, while another shall put their trust in sin; and this is the dividing asunder while at the same time is the law of Christ, that we must bear another's burden if it be so that we shall truly follow Christ, otherwise we are no different than the unbelieving world, who by nature all the day long excuse themselves for their unwillingness to sacrifice for the sake of righteousness.
But if we are willing to trust the Lord, then may we know that we are on the side of right.

 

[Johnny4ChristJesus]

EDIT: ** My goodness, people! Read the post before answering!**

There have been a few threads regarding marriage and divorce recently that really got me worked up with the theme of “one and done or you’re going to hell.”

So this got me thinking about a few married couples in loveless/sexless marriages that I know. The older you get, you may know some also.

Two couples that I know sleep in separate bedrooms and take separate vacations. They are nothing but roommates with kids. Another couple has been separated for about 5 years but won’t divorce because “it’s a sin”.

At what point do you believe that a marriage, while still legally valid, is no longer meeting Gods idea of marriage?

I believe that staying in an emotionally or physically abusive marriage or in one devoid of love and respect solely because “God hates divorce” is pure legalism. I think that God hates divorce because of what it does to his people. Aren’t loveless marriages contrary to his desire as well?

**I am not including anyone in a marriage that is physically or psychologically unable to have sex, only those who choose not to be intimate.

I don't think having a sexless marriage means you don't have a loving marriage. Companionship--the idea of being best friends who keep no secrets from each other--is a far greater quality of marriage than sex for healthy marriages, especially as you get older.

The things you mentioned could be symptoms of a loveless marriage or they could be symptoms of other things you don't know.

I agree that if people have gotten to the point that it is a loveless relationship, it really isn't meeting the expectation of a marriage anymore and they may not be legally divorced, but I'm not sure how they can say they love God or love their neighbor as themselves, when they can't even love the human they chose to get married to (considering 1 John 4:20 and the Great Commandments). Exceptions: where the other person thinks they have found a better option (adultery) or the unbeliever--who doesn't value Scripture or God anyway, chooses to leave. But, two genuine Christians should never reach that point. Something isn't right with at least one of their walks (with God) if it becomes a loveless marriage. But, you may not know who is the responsible party. It isn't always the most vocal that is the innocent party.

I also agree with the person who said you made a commitment and you need to honor it. If you can decide that you don't feel loved and exit out of the marriage, it is too easy to make no effort to stay in the marriage. Jesus removed all options, except adultery and Paul added "when the unbeliever chooses to leave the marriage."

 

[Monna]

At what point do you believe that a marriage, while still legally valid, is no longer meeting Gods idea of marriage?

And what, exactly, is "God's idea of marriage?"
We all come at this question from the perspective of our own cultural interpretation.
Hence, perhaps comment #3

You know little about Samaritan culture.

We also have quite culturally different understandings of the English word "love."

According to the OT law, if a woman became a widow, it was her husband's responsibility to marry her, without any caveat (that I am aware of) that he was not already married. When the brother married her, it was in fact an act of love (i.e. the taking care of a person in a socio-economically vulnerable situation). Refusing to have children with her (and raise children in her first husband's name) was considered wrong! This was the sin of Onan.

Love is an action much more than a feeling. You can love your enemy without liking him/her. But if you persist in doing acts of kindness/love for him, you will find that you will like him more and more, and the feeling has a good chance of becoming mutual. I know of marriages in which the Bride and Groom met essentially at their wedding, and which have become beautiful examples of mutual loving commitment.

The relationship of marriage in the NT is most closely likened to the relationship between Christ and the Church. It has nothing to do with sex. It is a matter of commitment and focus of living for one another. Christ lived, died and now lives for the Church (he has and continues to give his life for her) and, we as part of the church are expected to live our lives for him, our Head and Bridegroom. There is a far deeper intimacy than a physical, sexual, one in spiritual unity. What is interesting here, is that since believers are all part of His body, we are supposed to be sharing the same level of spiritual unity with one another as exists between Jesus, the Son, and His Father. And we don't have to be "married" to one another to have this unity - it is the unity of a well-functioning organism.

It has nothing to do with sex. But the scriptures use the physical union of sex as a metaphor for the complete unity that there should be (two shall be one). That doesn't mean that ending physical union in a (State sanctioned) marriage is the end of love - respect, commitment, care, kindness, etc.. It does mean, on the other hand, that if you have sexual relationships outside of marriage, you make meaningless the singular commitment to, and respect for your mate - that is a failure at the level of values, relationship, your core, your spirit. Hence the prophets' constant comparison of Israel chasing after foreign gods as spiritual adultery.

One further point: in most western countries, it is the STATE, not the church that stands behind the legality of marriage, it is the STATE, not the church, that licenses individuals to officiate at marriages. (Listen to the minster/pastor/priest's words... "By the power vested in me by the State, I pronounce you man and wife." They are not authorised otherwise to marry people. The STATE does not recognise the religious institution's right to marry people in their own capacity.) Recently, some States (I don't mean states in the USA) have ceased to view adultery as a crime. What does that do over the longer term to the cultural norm regarding sex and marriage in those countries?

 

[Danthemailman]

 

[BibleloverBill]

The idea that marriage is about love is modern and Western. Jesus (who spoke against divorce in general), discussed marriage in a culture where it was an economic arrangement, with women treated basically as property.

But later, most of those couples did love their chosen spouses. The wisdom and intuition of most of those parents was better than the USA caused dating ways for matching couples.

 

[BibleloverBill]

But most marriages were not urged by the Holy Spirit, they were not "made in Heaven". They were made by selfishness for daily sex or/and higher status or popularity.

 

[NeedyFollower]

EDIT: ** My goodness, people! Read the post before answering!**

There have been a few threads regarding marriage and divorce recently that really got me worked up with the theme of “one and done or you’re going to hell.”

So this got me thinking about a few married couples in loveless/sexless marriages that I know. The older you get, you may know some also.

Two couples that I know sleep in separate bedrooms and take separate vacations. They are nothing but roommates with kids. Another couple has been separated for about 5 years but won’t divorce because “it’s a sin”.

At what point do you believe that a marriage, while still legally valid, is no longer meeting Gods idea of marriage?

I believe that staying in an emotionally or physically abusive marriage or in one devoid of love and respect solely because “God hates divorce” is pure legalism. I think that God hates divorce because of what it does to his people. Aren’t loveless marriages contrary to his desire as well?

**I am not including anyone in a marriage that is physically or psychologically unable to have sex, only those who choose not to be intimate.

I hope this answers your question ..it informed me . All things were created by Him and for Him . I was in a loveless marriage but my spouse never gave up on me . Why ? Love is patient . I cheated on my spouse so they had the right to divorce me but did not . Why ? Love is longsuffering and does not return evil for evil but overcomes evil with good . Love is kind . Husbands ..love your wives as Christ loved the church and gave himself for her . Christ loved the church when we did not love him being dead in trespasses and sin . My spouse is Christ Jesus . I am betrothed . He will neither leave me nor forsake me . Marriage is from God and about God . The couples you described may be in a legalistic marriage ...many were in Paul's day . ( Have the older women TEACH the younger women to love their husbands and to love their children . ) Why would he say this if it were not doable and expected .
When Jesus allowed divorce for fornication ( not adultery ..for the Mosaic law for adultery was stoning ) he was talking about the betrothal period prior to consummation .
I believe couples in loveless marriages need to make their common ground the love of God through Jesus Christ ...then they will always have that love in common and it is eternal . Many couples think marriage is about them ..It is about the Glory of God as is all things ...It is a form of humanism that has crept into the church to the shame of His body .

 

[Reborn1977]

Another couple has been separated for about 5 years but won’t divorce because “it’s a sin”.

At what point do you believe that a marriage, while still legally valid, is no longer meeting Gods idea of marriage?

Married 34 years and grateful...most days...lol...lol.


No seriously, there is legal divorce and then there is spiritual divorce.


What you describe above are two people who might be legally bound but who have clearly abandoned their marriage covenant. Couples who have long-term marriage, 20+ years, may go through periods where the sex is little, there might be separate sleeping arrangement for a season due to some purpose, there will be difficulties and heartache, they may want to give up at times, but as long as they stay committed to the idea of repairing and continuing in their marriage they are still in the spiritual marriage covenant, which in my view matters most to God.


If a couple lives separate lives either in the same house or in different houses and they refuse to function together as married they have already broken the spiritual covenant of marriage, which is HIGHLY important to God, the legal covenant of marriage is only a formality at that point. You cannot trick God He sees the heart, a person or couple who has given up on their marriage and are living apart might be technically married but in God's eyes they are sinning, as they have abandoned the covenant of marriage they made before Him.


Please note...A couple might live apart for a season in the case of physical abuse, adultery, or some other extreme situation - this is not the type of situation my comments are designed to address.

 

[ColoRaydo]

Married 34 years and grateful...most days...lol...lol.


No seriously, there is legal divorce and then there is spiritual divorce.

You cannot trick God He sees the heart, a person or couple who has given up on their marriage and are living apart might be technically married but in God's eyes they are sinning, as they have abandoned the covenant of marriage they made before Him.

Excellent

 

[Blade]

Man PLUS woman. This is something very dear to the Fathers heart. Loveless..how does the Father talk about Israel? He never left.. she did. Then when she was selling her self and a line of men.. He stood in line.. bought her back..

I know this pain... in over 30y with one woman.. and come this Nov 24th .. since 1984. And if you had asked or looked at us over the years.. it was far worse then what you talk about here. All my life I look at everything like. what if it was me.. what would I do.. haha I was SO HAPPY when I read that in the word.. its how I have always tried to walk in.

I cant speak for anyone.. And looking on the out side in... to know all this pain we have done to each other and so much to our Father.. yet... to look where we are KNOW... oh.. even now... crying.. to fall on our face and thank HIM for getting us here. It was wow SO MUCH worth the work... the wait. The reward.. is worth it.

See.. love never sees self.. you look at the other....not how you feel what you want. Thats not love...and some of you KNOW..that road.. for me is one of if not the hardest road to walk. Self is ALL I want to see.. but wow He really helps.. that love.. selfless .. comes from Him. When you truly need it.. He will be there...wrong word but.. I HATE talking about this.. I am human.. the enemy knows how to make that pain.. as if it was yesterday..

So.. its not over... pray for.. see the light..even if its just a match.. for that tiny match. That tiny light.. still drives away darkness. There is NOTHING our Father cant do.. we are the example of it

 

[Blade]

Married 34 years and grateful...most days...lol...lol.


Bless you both.,., in JESUS name

 

[Mountainmanbob]

I'm not all that concerned where we sleep in the house as long as I get my guaranteed visitation rights.

Bible says not to hold that thing back for too long could drive me crazy.

M-Bob

 

[Sam91]

Of course it is still a marraige. They made the vows and became one flesh.

Ideally, they ought to love one another. Forgive and get rid of the hardness of heart.

The lack of sex really isn't an issue. It is the world that forces sex to be a constant topic. Emotions, age, stress all limit peoples desires. These desires can be an idol and a distraction from serving Him, so it isn't necessarily a bad thing if people are lacking in a that department.

What did you mean by loveless? If you mean the lack of brain chemicals from the early days... well that doesn't equate to love. People love their parents but don't get emotional responses constantly at being around them.

People who divorce for these reasons face having the same peoblem in the future but with a new partner.

People would be better buckling down and making good companions of their spouse. Working for the same team rather than having egos and tiffs over who is least wrong in a situation, acting towards each other the way that the Lord commanded. For who could have emnity towards someone who treated them right and put their interests above their own?

 

[Josephus]

At what point do you believe that a marriage, while still legally valid, is no longer meeting Gods idea of marriage?

The moment when one sins towards their spouse, or towards G-d, is when a marriage is no longer meeting G-d's idea of marriage. Marriage is a constant test. Hence why if you remove the letters of G-d's name (i,h) from the Hebrew word for husband (ais), and from the Hebrew word for woman (aish), you get fire (as). Only when G-d is accepted by both, is the fire transformed into the peaceful home of husband and wife.

Aren’t loveless marriages contrary to his desire as well?

When love is defined by action, and not emotion, yes. Love is always an action, a verb. This is why love is a choice. And to love another without expectation of love in return, is the ultimate form of love, and the kind of love a husband and wife should have for each other.

One's spouse is a reflection of their relationship with G-d. We see this when G-d came to Abraham and ask him why Sarah laughed. Unless there was some part of responsibility on Abraham's part for his wife's reason for laughing at the promise G-d made to give them a son, then there was no reason for G-d to ask Abraham this question, but rather should have asked Sarah. But this teaches us that one's spouse is a reflection of one's relationship with G-d, for after all, marriage (husband and wife) is the image of G-d (male and female) of which we were made in and thus the ultimate reflection of ourselves, is through our spouse. If only divorcing couples would realize the amazing G-d given device of personal improvement they are giving up when they divorce their G-d given mirror.

 

[Verv]

At what point do you believe that a marriage, while still legally valid, is no longer meeting Gods idea of marriage?

I believe that staying in an emotionally or physically abusive marriage or in one devoid of love and respect solely because “God hates divorce” is pure legalism. I think that God hates divorce because of what it does to his people. Aren’t loveless marriages contrary to his desire as well?

There are four valid reasons for divorce, as I have been taught, which are (1) adultery, (2) abandonment, (3) physical violence, (4) severe break from reality which makes joint raising of children impossible together that also does not fall into the category of mental disease -- this includes apostasy from the true faith.

To divorce for any other reason is wrong.

A spouse which is not interested in continuation of a sexual relationship should acutally continue providing said relationship to their spouse out of duty and should be counseled to do so.

A spouse who has simply fallen out of love or has dropped out emotionally does not actually have a valid reason for a divorce, and if the home does become an emotional war zone, the two should perhaps physically separate from one another but, still, divorce is not appropriate, especially if there are children, because the vows that we take before God are eternal. And yes, this does mean that osmeone who is in a loveless marriage that does not any longer perform like a marriage may be called to be a celibate person for decades on end.

That isn't a pleasant reality, of course, but neither is being a recovering alcoholic or a recovering drug addict, and this is a possibility that we face when we enter into marriage.

The sacrifices that we make to maintain the sanctity of marriage pay huge dividends in our society even if it produces some amount of personal suffering; it's just a cross that we have to bear.

 

[RDKirk]

One further point: in most western countries, it is the STATE, not the church that stands behind the legality of marriage, it is the STATE, not the church, that licenses individuals to officiate at marriages. (Listen to the minster/pastor/priest's words... "By the power vested in me by the State, I pronounce you man and wife." They are not authorised otherwise to marry people. The STATE does not recognise the religious institution's right to marry people in their own capacity.) Recently, some States (I don't mean states in the USA) have ceased to view adultery as a crime. What does that do over the longer term to the cultural norm regarding sex and marriage in those countries?

While I agree with the gist of your post, I'd have to point out that as a matter of practicality, no state in the US would question the bona fides of someone claiming to be a cleric and who could present a record of operating as a cleric (such as being recognized by a small congregation as the pastor of their house church) signing the marriage license. Practically speaking, any religion has a constitutional right that would be contravened if a state interfered with such a marriage.

 

[Neostarwcc]

EDIT: ** My goodness, people! Read the post before answering!**

There have been a few threads regarding marriage and divorce recently that really got me worked up with the theme of “one and done or you’re going to hell.”

So this got me thinking about a few married couples in loveless/sexless marriages that I know. The older you get, you may know some also.

Two couples that I know sleep in separate bedrooms and take separate vacations. They are nothing but roommates with kids. Another couple has been separated for about 5 years but won’t divorce because “it’s a sin”.

At what point do you believe that a marriage, while still legally valid, is no longer meeting Gods idea of marriage?

I believe that staying in an emotionally or physically abusive marriage or in one devoid of love and respect solely because “God hates divorce” is pure legalism. I think that God hates divorce because of what it does to his people. Aren’t loveless marriages contrary to his desire as well?

**I am not including anyone in a marriage that is physically or psychologically unable to have sex, only those who choose not to be intimate.

While I'm not in a loveless marriage. I do believe in the sanctity of marriage. When I got married I made the vow to stay married until death do I part. So even if I was stuck in a loveless and sexless marriage I would remain married for that reason. I mean I know that divorce is detestable to God but I also would stay in the marriage because I loved that person at one point. After all I married her so I had to have been in love with her at one point. So those feelings could possibly come back and I wouldn't want to divorce someone and then one day realize crap I loved her and then its too late because she married someone else. In my opinion there's only one reason to seek divorce and that's adultery. But I do believe that if I ever got cheated on or cheated that I would forgive/should be forgiven. To a point of course. But yeah when you make the commitment to marry someone its for life unless you're constantly cheating on each other and then its like why did you even get married in the first place?

 

[BibleloverBill]

Again, most marriages in the USA were not Holy Spirit urged marriages. In other words, they were not marriages put together by God, but were put together because of selfish eros sexual (not agapè LOVE Holy Spirit urged) desires because of lack of knowledge about what are the requirements of a God-pleasing marriage. Most pastors and justices of the peace do not teach the latter. The famous New Testament verse says "Therefore what God has joined together, let not man separate." (Mark 10:9) In most other countries where they mostly practiced marriages being put together by parents, they still take marriage much more serious than in the USA. Even my 4 children, because of their hatred for divorce, decided to live with their spouses-to-be before getting married. I still think that is sin. And I agree with Verv's four valid reasons for divorce.