Is a loveless marriage really a marriage?

[Dynamaniac]

Your definition of love is very important in this situation. Love, as dictated by the world (ruled by Satan) is full of emotion, happiness, romance, etc. This is a lie dictated by Satan, fooling unbelievers into the belief that love is something that we are supposed to feel. Love is not an emotion. Love is an action.

Jesus did not die for us because he was emotionally tied to our lives. He died for us because he loved us and wanted us to be with him for eternity. Because of our unbelief, we were separated from him. HE loved us enough to allow our unbelief and our sin kill him so that in his death, He died for forgiveness of ALL sin -- the sin of the entire world. All we have to do now is believe in him and we are saved. But whether we believe in him or not, he still loves us, and He still died for us.

Believers are his bride, and as such he has entered into a covenant with us that no matter what we do, we are his. Nothing can separate us from the love of God, not even us. This is why works can never save us or keep us saved. Marriage is a picture of this covenant. We enter into this covenant with each other (man and woman and God) and agree that no matter what, we will stay married until death we are separated. This covenant has nothing to do with sex or emotional love (although joining together as one flesh is how we seal this covenant). This covenant is our commitment and our promise to love -- the action -- each other no matter what.

The act of marriage in the Bible did not consist of vows for the purposes of legalism. It was a ceremony, far different from what we do today (no need for government involvement, etc.; except that the priesthood was considered the law in their culture) so that the community knew that these two were married, keeping others from committing the sin of lusting after another's spouse, thus being condemned by God for adultery, and countless other sins dictated by the law (ten commandments).

We are not called to judge the relationship between any man and his wife because we simply do not agree with their portrayal of what they believe marriage to be. It is not our place to judge their covenant. Judgment belongs to God and God alone. God never promises us happiness (an emotion), He only promises hope in Him, joy (not an emotion, a belief) in Him, and peace in Him.

 

[ColoRaydo]

This covenant has nothing to do with sex or emotional love (although joining together as one flesh is how we seal this covenant). This covenant is our commitment and our promise to love -- the action -- each other no matter what.

Would you (or anyone who reads this) marry someone with whom you had no emotional or sexual attraction? Would you enter into this “covenant” as an action and decision rather than emotional love?

 

[Andrew77]

EDIT: ** My goodness, people! Read the post before answering!**

There have been a few threads regarding marriage and divorce recently that really got me worked up with the theme of “one and done or you’re going to hell.”

So this got me thinking about a few married couples in loveless/sexless marriages that I know. The older you get, you may know some also.

Two couples that I know sleep in separate bedrooms and take separate vacations. They are nothing but roommates with kids. Another couple has been separated for about 5 years but won’t divorce because “it’s a sin”.

At what point do you believe that a marriage, while still legally valid, is no longer meeting Gods idea of marriage?

I believe that staying in an emotionally or physically abusive marriage or in one devoid of love and respect solely because “God hates divorce” is pure legalism. I think that God hates divorce because of what it does to his people. Aren’t loveless marriages contrary to his desire as well?

**I am not including anyone in a marriage that is physically or psychologically unable to have sex, only those who choose not to be intimate.

No, that... no.

Love, has nothing to do with marriage. Marriage is a commitment. It's a binding agreement. The agreement is, we stay together for life. I don't go to be with someone else. You don't go to be with someone else. This is it.

For literally thousands of years of human history, love was never required for marriage. You got married to someone, and then fell in love with them.

Think about this......

In any other context, would this even be a consideration?

If I sign a contract to buy a car, on payments.... if I just decide to not pay, does that magically make the contract void?

So if I decide to not have sex with my wife, does that magically void my marriage, and I can divorce now?

So no... just no. There is none of this "no longer meeting Gods idea of marriage" stuff.

G-d's idea of marriage, is as it has always been... you stay together until you die.

Yes there are exceptions, a few. But generally speaking, if you are separated from your husband, or if you are no longer having sex, then you should spend whatever time you have trying to rectify the marriage.

Generally speaking, if I man is not having sex, there is a simple reason. If a woman refuses, there is a reason for that too, but it is a bit more complicated (as usual with anything involving females).

(I'm playing guys. Loosen up).

But as long as you are married, you married, and need to work towards repairing your marriage. There is no "if your marriage is like this, then G-d is ok with you divorcing".

No. There is no 'ok' to divorce. There is unavoidable divorce sometimes. But there is no "ok" divorce.

 

[ColoRaydo]

For literally thousands of years of human history, love was never required for marriage. You got married to someone, and then fell in love with them.

Serious (not condescending nor sarcastic) question: Are you married to someone who you didn’t love, but fell in love with later? If so, why did you get married? If love has nothing to do with it, why would anyone today get married?

I am assuming you are in the Western Hemisphere. No woman (or man) here needs to get married for protection or family honor, or empire building or whatever besides love. 2,000 years ago, sure, but not now.

Forget the sex argument. Are you truly saying that you would stay married to someone who has done those things I have mentioned (the theft, the car accident). What about a spouse committing crimes? What about draining the bank accounts and signing the house over to a third party individual as a quit claim deed (in other words, giving the house away) without you knowing? What about being personally sued for $1 Million and not showing up in court all without telling your spouse? All these things have happened to people that I know. Saying “We need to work on our marriage” is hardly sufficient.

Saying that “marriage is forever” is easy when these things haven’t happened to us.

By the way, I am happily married. Thankfully, not to any of the individuals I have mentioned. I did, however, marry for love.

 

[Andrew77]

Serious (not condescending nor sarcastic) question: Are you married to someone who you didn’t love, but fell in love with later? If so, why did you get married? If love has nothing to do with it, why would anyone today get married?

I am assuming you are in the Western Hemisphere. No woman (or man) here needs to get married for protection or family honor, or empire building or whatever besides love. 2,000 years ago, sure, but not now.

Forget the sex argument. Are you truly saying that you would stay married to someone who has done those things I have mentioned (the theft, the car accident). What about a spouse committing crimes? What about draining the bank accounts and signing the house over to a third party individual as a quit claim deed (in other words, giving the house away) without you knowing? What about being personally sued for $1 Million and not showing up in court all without telling your spouse? All these things have happened to people that I know. Saying “We need to work on our marriage” is hardly sufficient.

Saying that “marriage is forever” is easy when these things haven’t happened to us.

By the way, I am happily married. Thankfully, not to any of the individuals I have mentioned. I did, however, marry for love.

So the quick answer is no.

The longer answer, that isn't really what I meant. I guess I was not clear enough.

The context given, wasn't should you love someone in marriage. Well yes. And obviously, if you can't stand the other person, then no, I would not marry them. In context of modern western culture, yes, you should actually love the other person before you get married to them.

However, the context I was replying to, was you have a couple that got married, and now they supposedly don't feel the love. Does that invalidate marriage?

No, it does not. Marriage, the act, has nothing to do with love. Your promise and commitment in marriage, has nothing to do with love. It is a commitment. You made a promise to G-d in Heaven, that you would do thus and so. That promise of doing thus and so, doesn't involve how you feel.

That's my point.

Marriages based on feelings alone, rarely work. Your feelings come and go. Most of the older couples I meet, all freely admit some nights, and some mornings, they "feel" like strangling the person laying beside them.

The reason their marriage doesn't implode, is because they made a commitment.

When you look at Hollywood, where people marry 5 times a year, and divorce just as quickly, it's because they marry and divorce based on if they feel 'in love'. When they don't, then they leave. Move on to the next person they feel 'in love' with.

Now understand, I get it that human existence is a dirty messy place, where things do not go the way G-d intended. If it is impossible to avoid divorce, then we move on.... as best we can in our screwed up ways.

I will say this... I am a firm believer that any man, or woman, that keeps their vows, will be rewarded for it by G-d himself. I just flat out believe that. I think people that choose their vow before G-d, over their comfort in this life, end up rewarded for it.

And that isn't to say it won't suck real bad when you are walking through it, but Christians in the past were fed to lions, and we can't stand dealing with one spouse... I don't know that people can't handle a bit more than they claim.

Just to wrap this up, let me mention some of the things you talked about.

So, first.... just to be brutally honest, a ton of the time when I hear these crazy stories, there is a huge back story that led up to the spouse doing something crazy. I'm not questioning that you are lying, or that you were lied to. I am just saying that in my experience, people give me their side of the story, which magically doesn't include the 300 things that they did to intentionally drive the other person crazy, and then they skip straight to the "they did X crazy thing to me!".

Just saying.

Beyond that, I am all in favor of dealing very strongly with a badly behaving spouse. Kick them out of the house. Take the kids, and move in with your parents. Block them from the bank account. Lock them out of everything you have to.

I always get tired of people saying "I shouldn't have to do that to deal with my spouse!".... really? You think G-d was saying "I shouldn't have to sacrifice my son, to save these wayward rebellious humans!"

Jesus up on the cross "Ya know... I really shouldn't have to have nails through my hands and feet, for these crazy human beings.

So, you deal with your spouse. You kick them out of the house, you take away their check book, you remove them from the deed to the house, you take them off the title to the car. You do whatever you have to do.

If they are actually stealing stuff, or breaking the law, you call police and have them tossed in jail. Then go visit them every day, and tell them Timmy is doing well in school, and says he misses you.

You do what you have to do, to discipline your spouse. Just in case anyone else is reading this, I don't mean your husband left his underwear on the floor. I mean real serious problems. Theft, gambling the house away, stuff like that.

 

[ColoRaydo]

So the quick answer is no.

I could have highlighted your entire answer, but it just takes up too much space.

That was an excellent answer. I disagree with nothing in it. I appreciate thoughtful and informative answers rather than simply quoting scripture and saying “do that ... or else”. One can’t simply quote scripture to a spouse who is deaf to it and stand back expecting an immediate change of heart.

You are indeed correct, there are details and two sides behind the back stories. Overall, it was (and is) a lot of unaddressed and ignored mental illness on one or both parties. By the way, these aren’t people I have heard of, they are people I know very well.

I hope I could deal with it if I was involved. The straight mental illness, probably, the unabashed meanness, I doubt it.

The entire purpose of my original post was to hear what Christians would truly do, not what they would announce in church to look good.

 

[Paidiske]

There's a strand of the discussion here which is disturbing me because it sounds a bit like people are saying, "If he beats you, you should stay, because you made a vow." I'm really hoping that's not what people actually mean.

 

[Andrew77]

There's a strand of the discussion here which is disturbing me because it sounds a bit like people are saying, "If he beats you, you should stay, because you made a vow." I'm really hoping that's not what people actually mean.

Which post said something like "If he beats you, you should stay, because you made a vow."?

 

[Paidiske]

"I think people that choose their vow before G-d, over their comfort in this life, end up rewarded for it." Is an example of something that, if it were used to make sense of an abuse situation, would seem to be leaning towards a "stay and be abused" approach.

 

[Andrew77]

"I think people that choose their vow before G-d, over their comfort in this life, end up rewarded for it." Is an example of something that, if it were used to make sense of an abuse situation, would seem to be leaning towards a "stay and be abused" approach.

I am fairly sure that the statement was used in the context of this thread... and I don't remember anyone referring to abuse.

Moreover, I am also pretty sure I was absolutely clear that you should deal strongly with your spouse, such as committing a criminal act should result in you calling the police, and the spouse being thrown in jail.

If they are actually stealing stuff, or breaking the law, you call police and have them tossed in jail. Then go visit them every day, and tell them Timmy is doing well in school, and says he misses you.​

Beating someone is illegal. If your spouse is doing something illegal, you handle it appropriately.
I think that was pretty clear.

 

[Paidiske]

Well, I'm glad you didn't mean it that way. But so many abused people are told to stay and suffer that I think it needs to be spelled out.

 

[Andrew77]

Well, I'm glad you didn't mean it that way. But so many abused people are told to stay and suffer that I think it needs to be spelled out.

Never. And G-d forgive me if I find someone abusing their wife, I will put the fear of G-d in them.