2 Thess 2:12 teaches eternal security

[LightLoveHope]

A fake belief

Someone can claim they have faith, that everything Jesus promised is for them, and be totally lost.
Magic is always about distracting the observer from the real issue.
In this case the real issue is repentance, turning ones heart, behaviour and desires away from this world to the Kingdom and its love and righteousness.

I have met many fake believers who hide their heart with the phrase, the heart is desperately wicked.
Now this is true of everyone who has not been cleansed and purified by Jesus, through repentance and faith in the cross, walking in obedience to His word. And it is never I have arrived, because each day is a day of sacrifice and praise, of committing the things of the Kingdom into His hands and following after.

 

[LightLoveHope]

It really is interesting. And FreeGrace has mentioned some of the exact principles the book lays out.


Here is an interesting quote from the book:

Emotionalism is a condition of natural and perpetual distraction, which prevents a person from appreciating any other idea than the one which actually occupies their mind. It is characterized by those who are excessively emotional, whose emotions are readily modified by trifling influences, i.e., whose god is their emotions. Objective mental activity is drastically lowered in emotionalism. Emotional stress disorganizes the mental synthesis, modifies the psychological tension, and induces mental conditions in which dissociation and the isolated development of the lower grade tendencies (operations of the sin nature) are very apt to ensue. The essence of an attack of depression is that the emotions for the time have lost enduring relation to current experience, and whatever their origin and integrity, they have achieved a sort of autonomy from objective thinking, i.e. emotional revolt of the soul.

Not sure you understand the subject you are trying to quote.
Emotions are part of life, to be recognised and dealt with appropriately.
This is different from those who follow only how they feel, as if feelings always speak truth, or those who ignore feelings as if they are alien to them.

If you knew me you would realise I am very relaxed and in control, and choose what and how I follow and react to things. I desire to bring everything to submission to Christ, knowing in Him I have life. But this is using praise and worship as a means to bring ones focus back to the heavenlies when the world breaks in with its worries and stresses. It is this reality which seems lacking in the discussion or even acknowledging one has an emotional life at all.

 

[Gr8Grace]

Not sure you understand the subject you are trying to quote.

Oh, I understand it. And I didn't try to quote it, I did quote it.

And Here is an example of Objectivity and then subjectivity(Emotionalism)

1.Objectivity. John 10:28 the Lord Jesus Christ says believers will never perish.

2.Subjectivity(Emotionalism)

If one claims no matter how bad my conscience or behaviour, no matter how many people I murder or abuse I am safe in Christ, you are certifiably insane and are not part of the body.

Not only is this emotionalism, but it uses a "horrible scenario" to divert others from objectivity(John 10:28) into subjectivity.

And the Irony of it all Peter...........You have murdered another brother in your "horrible scenario" by sending him to the lake of fire forever for their behavior.

 

[LightLoveHope]

And the Irony of it all Peter...........You have murdered another brother in your "horrible scenario" by sending him to the lake of fire forever for their behavior.

This is where I have to laugh. In your belief I cannot send anyone anywhere.
And to be honest, I am not sending anyone anywhere, I am just testifying to the word of God.
People will be judged for what they say and do.

 

[LightLoveHope]

By the way if someone is not my brother, because they neither know love or follow Jesus, I am called to warn all sinners to repent and humble themselves before the King as James says

Come near to God and he will come near to you. Wash your hands, you sinners, and purify your hearts, you double-minded.
Grieve, mourn and wail. Change your laughter to mourning and your joy to gloom.
Humble yourselves before the Lord, and he will lift you up.
Brothers, do not slander one another. Anyone who speaks against his brother or judges him speaks against the law and judges it. When you judge the law, you are not keeping it, but sitting in judgment on it.
James 4:8-11

We are to purify our hearts in the blood of Christ. Unless you do this you are lost.

 

[Gr8Grace]

Objectivity~~ Acts 16:31....."Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you shall be saved..."

emotionalism/subjectivity:

We are to purify our hearts in the blood of Christ. Unless you do this you are lost.

 

[LightLoveHope]

Objectivity~~ Acts 16:31....."Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you shall be saved..."

emotionalism/subjectivity:

Hi Grace,

I understand those who do not want to repent or feel sorrow for sin, or grieve over the affects they have on others, because it hurts, and it is taking responsibility for our behaviour, and forcing ourselves to see the truth, we can do evil and good, Jesus has given us the power to be free or stay in bondage.

It appears you do not believe Jesus or the cross delivers this. I cannot convert you, that is Gods work, but I do pray for you, that the light might dawn, and the freedom of the cross and love to heal our deepest hurts may become real in your life, so to feel and express who you are is not fearful or dangerous, but an overflow of who Christ is in your heart.

When Jesus says the light has come, He was speaking to everyone, the hyper intelligent and the simplest of all. By dwelling in the light and committing everything we do to Him, it soon becomes clear what is His will, and what is our will. So that is all I suggest, learn from Him, commit all your ways to Him and He will make your paths straight. Amen and praise the Lord.

 

[FreeGrace2]

You claim you listen alone to Jesus's words, yet you are not listening to all of them.

No, that's what you are doing.

Fake security is no security at all.

How dare you claim eternal security is fake.

Jesus said recipients of eternal life shall never perish. So you are the one who isn't listening to all of Jesus' words.

And, btw, He NEVER said that recipients MAY perish.

 

[FreeGrace2]

If Christ is ones security, you have to follow and obey or it is for nothing.

You just can't resist adding one's own works to it, huh. All believers are commanded to follow and obey. But not to keep their salvation.

 

[FreeGrace2]

A fake belief

Someone can claim they have faith, that everything Jesus promised is for them, and be totally lost.

I'm not interested in what one "claims". My only point is about those who have believed in Jesus Christ for salvation. They shall never perish because Jesus gives them eternal life.

Why don't you believe what Jesus says?

 

[LightLoveHope]

"If your brother sins against you, go and show him his fault, just between the two of you. If he listens to you, you have won your brother over.
But if he will not listen, take one or two others along, so that 'every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.'
If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, treat him as you would a pagan or a tax collector.
matthew 18:14-17

My brothers, if one of you should wander from the truth and someone should bring him back,
remember this: Whoever turns a sinner from the error of his way will save him from death and cover over a multitude of sins.
James 5:19-20

We are called to live blamelessly and confront sin. Some claim confronting sin is condemning the sinner rather than in reality it is holding out a hand to save him from the consequences of sin, and offering him the healing we find in Jesus.

Another lie so easily put about by some, is the idea that walking in obedience is earning salvation. The lie is there is another way, where being in Christ is walking in sin, which is false teaching. These false teachers want to claim obedience is just an option, one can live how you like, because Jesus does not care and there is no penalty or issue involved. It is like going on a ferry and balancing in the railings for the fun of it. You will never drop in and drown, except that is exactly what will happen. Only a fool would talk like this, and those who have no understanding of sin and death, or desire to walk in love and righteousness. But then if you have never really come to faith, what would you expect?

 

[LightLoveHope]

I'm not interested in what one "claims". My only point is about those who have believed in Jesus Christ for salvation. They shall never perish because Jesus gives them eternal life.

Why don't you believe what Jesus says?

Free, you do not read very well. Those who are called from eternity will never perish.
But only Jesus knows who they are. Many weeds are sown, and much fake belief and understanding exist. Only those who stand to the end will be saved, because only they are truly the called and chosen.

The lie behind the position you put forward is there is value in knowing Jesus but walking in sin. Rather than this being very dangerous and one will lose ones faith, destructive to oneself and all who know you, it is just a minor issue.

The second lie is those who point out this lie are of satan. And these evil people deserve to be exposed and driven out from the church. If you want a well put together satanic story line, this is it. Condemn the righteous by people who appear to be believers themselves though they deny their hearts and resolving sin.

I have seen and know of people who have been close to believers who trusted Christ would heal them of a fatal illness, and they still died. They were convinced Jesus loved them and brought them the victory, but they were 100% wrong. But even those around them could not bring themselves to accept they had been wrong, and continued in the idea they still had the victory.

So I reject your position and its implications, and know my security and love in Christ Jesus.
I see and understand so much in Jesus now, and I am grateful to Him. It is down to each of us to listen and learn through the Holy Spirit as we walk, for He is our teacher.

It is no wonder to me that so many are defeated and feel confused, because the simplicity of a clean heart is the one thing they resist going to God to receive.

He has blinded their eyes and deadened their hearts, so they can neither see with their eyes, nor understand with their hearts, nor turn--and I would heal them.
John 12:40

 

[Gr8Grace]

Jesus has given us the power to be free or stay in bondage.

Of course He has.

It appears you do not believe Jesus or the cross delivers this.

I believe The Lord Jesus Christ. Point to me, from His word, something I don't believe.

It is glaringly obvious that you don't know the mechanic's and principles of fellowship......to be free.

I cannot convert you, that is Gods work, but I do pray for you, that the light might dawn,

Peter, Here is how we live in the light.

Do not quench the Spirit.
Do not grieve the Spirit.
Be filled with the Spirit.
Walk in the Spirit.

Figure out these principles and How to apply them.......And we will follow His commands,live holy(the supernatural Christian way of life), abide in Him, Walk in His ways, follow Him, hear him.

If we do it your way, It's just a work of futility. Our flesh will not be redeemed. And no matter how hard we work at cleaning it up........It is a work in futility.

Ponder this, seriously.:

Morality, cleaning up ones life, striving to be nice, striving to not sin so much.....will never produce spirituality and TRUE DIVINE FRUIT.

But living Spiritually will always produce morality, a cleaner life, less sin, and TRUE DIVINE FRUIT.

 

[JLB777]

All of this repetitious silliness gets you nowhere.

Why is discussing the plain straightforward words of Jesus, silliness to you.

• If anyone does not abide in Me,

Everyone else understands what Jesus so plainly said.

• gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned.

If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. John 15:6

Abide simply means remain.

Continue to remain connected.


You seem to be the only one who doesn’t understand what Jesus so plainly taught.


Here is how we abide, remain, continue to be connected to Him who is our life; our eternal life.


Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.
1 John 3:24

• he who keeps His commandments abides in Him

Hopefully you see how we are to abide in Him.


JLB

 

[Gr8Grace]

• If anyone does not abide in Me,

  They will not accept what the Lord Jesus Christ plainly declared in John 10:28........ He GIVES them eternal life and will NEVER perish.

Everyone else understands what Jesus so plainly said.

Really? FreeGrace is about the only believer I have ran into that understands what The Lord Jesus Christ and John meant about "abiding." Everyone else seems to go with your carnal understanding of ' abide in me.' And striving in the flesh to be approved.

If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. John 15:6

And this is what is going to happen to believers who use this verse to toss other believers into the Lake of Fire.......When The Lord Jesus Christ say's believers HAVE eternal life and will NEVER perish.

We are not abiding in Him If we believe other believers can perish. They will be LEAST in the kingdom.

Abide simply means remain.

If abide only means remain to you, then you have never lived the Christian way of life.

You have been stuck on the milk so long, you have made it SOUR.

You seem to be the only one who doesn’t understand what Jesus so plainly taught.

Sad/tragic that he seems to be the only one who understands how to abide and have fellowship with Him.

Seems the vast majority have your carnal view of working for God to establish your own righteousness.

Here is how we abide, remain, continue to be connected to Him who is our life; our eternal life.


Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.
1 John 3:24

And you have not a clue on how to keep His commandment's.

And it would be nice for a change for you to answer a question.

How exactly, specifically do YOU follow His commandments? Because I have NEVER seen a post from you to indicate that you are following them.

 

[LightLoveHope]

Peter, Here is how we live in the light.

Do not quench the Spirit.
Do not grieve the Spirit.
Be filled with the Spirit.
Walk in the Spirit.

This is all about a superspiritual view of faith. It is a kind of gnostic view where the heavenly comes to earth, the eternal embodied in the flesh, though the flesh continues to sin, the spirit is pure and perfect.

This is just a way of excusing sin. We know that walking in the light is about an open heart, being cleansed within through repentance and faith. What you are expressing is not the way or the cross or repentance or following Jesus.

Walking in the spirit is putting on the things of heaven and putting to death the passions of this world.
This is exactly what Paul says and all the apostles. It is empowered by love and the Holy Spirit.

For if you live according to the sinful nature, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live, because those who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God.
Romans 8:13-14

Therefore, as God's chosen people, holy and dearly loved, clothe yourselves with compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness and patience. Bear with each other and forgive whatever grievances you may have against one another. Forgive as the Lord forgave you. And over all these virtues put on love, which binds them all together in perfect unity.
Colossians 3:12-14

If people resist this reality and do not embrace what repentance is they are not part of Christ.
There is a spirit of compromise with sin, a desire to not face the truth of selfishness and self interest, of greed and self indulgence. This is not the way of Jesus but leads to death, spiritually and physically.
I know of testimonies of believers who were caught in adultery, alcoholism and simply died because of their life style. Faith for them was just a covering to make them feel good.

It is ironic that those who resist resolving their hearts and sin within, actually have faith to feel good and resolved, while denying emotions and reassurance matter. Even more so, when to not have this reassurance is deemed as unbelief and unchristian. Reassurance is an emotion, and it is there to avoid anxiety about the future and in their eyes, to stop "working for salvation."

But they are actually victims of their desire for reassurance above getting right with God. And the fruit of their error, is to literally deny repentance and sorrow for sin is part of the Kingdom of heaven. So deluded are they, being a light of Gods work in the heart of man, is just a pipe dream, because it is just Jesus is a great guy, and we are lost without His grace, though He is incapable of making us love and be cleansed and walk literally in purity. It is a short step from here to never be saved at all.

 

[LightLoveHope]

Living in Darkness

Those who do not cleanse their hearts through the cross live in darkness. All they do, whether sinful or otherwise is deemed ok, and in their eyes, Jesus accepts them as they are.
The evil these people bring is condemnation towards people who walk in the light, and a hatred of resolving sin. This hatred is shown by avoiding repentance, avoiding sorrow or sadness for their behaviour, and rather than being a witness, they live like the world.

We are called to live in the light, be the light of Jesus to the world, and not be polluted by its ways.

Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world
James 1:27

Those who oppose the light are enemies of the light because their deeds are evil.

This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but men loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that his deeds will be exposed. But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what he has done has been done through God
John 3:19-21

I now know why these people of darkness hate what I bring, because they are of the darkness and not the light, and they know in their hearts they are condemned and wish to live in darkness. It is not a question of argument but emotion and guilt, which they cannot run away from unless they humble themselves and seek God for cleansing and forgiveness. They claim they are clean while staying dirty, that they are forgiven while continuing willingly in their sin. The apostles met people such as these

These men are springs without water and mists driven by a storm. Blackest darkness is reserved for them. For they mouth empty, boastful words and, by appealing to the lustful desires of sinful human nature, they entice people who are just escaping from those who live in error. They promise them freedom, while they themselves are slaves of depravity--for a man is a slave to whatever has mastered him.
2 Peter 2:17-19

 

[LightLoveHope]

Do we have fellowship with those who live in darkness?

No.

This is the message we have heard from him and declare to you: God is light; in him there is no darkness at all. If we claim to have fellowship with him yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not live by the truth. But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from all sin.
1 John 1:5-7

A sister once said sharing about the light and walking in the light was condemning and evil, the work of the enemy. What she had confused was God shines the light on our hearts to bring us to repentance and obtain cleansing, to get ourselves healed and made whole, to be washed clean, to have love set us free within, to be alive, to go from death to life, to become like Jesus. As sinners our first encounter with Jesus is to see we are unworthy, lost and helpless. But He offers a hand of friendship, cleansing and transformation through repentance, obedience and faith.

So if you feel condemned, repent of your sin, go to God for resolution and you will find peace and love and the joy of the Holy Spirit filling your life. This is the message of the cross, we do not need to stay in condemnation, but to walk in His glorious light. The glorious thing about repentance, is you are literally cleansed, guilt is removed, and forgiveness touches your soul. It is like laying down a massive boulder, to leave the past life behind and to be free. Amen and Praise the Lord, thank you Jesus.

 

[LightLoveHope]

Reassurance of salvation

We are not emotional, emotions are not to be trusted, they should be ignored and only facts responded to. To know you are saved because of the promise of Jesus, is everything and to have doubt of this promise is a lie of satan.

The lie here is the people are not emotional when actually this is all about needing reassurance, and reassurance within the struggles of life and their "defeat" is what they are desperate for, because facing life without faith is for them just depression. They are so emotional, they get very upset, angry, burn with venom against those who dare to suggest they are sinners, or in sin, or not worthy of Jesus.

It is all therefore double speak, because actually facing these realities would mean getting right with God and resolving their sin which they believe can not be done. But they have not truly seen Jesus or the cross, love or know how being in Christ is to die to self, to give up, to surrender, to lay before Him helpless and in need, and feel Him forgive and rebuild from scratch.

We have Jesus's reassurance because we know the cross and we know His love through His death and resurrection.

One believer told me I just was repeating doctrines, brain washed into the words. It was because the words for him meant nothing, which is why he did not know the Lord. What people do not see is this.
Jesus came to my door, I welcomed Him in and we embraced. We eat and talked together as friends and soon we will meet face to face. It is this alive and real, the things of heaven and of earth, so close and yet for many so far away. But how many embrace anyone, or do people know their heart.

We are the people of God, Jesus's ambassadors on earth, transformed, redeemed Children of the Most High. Amen.

 

[JLB777]

Really? FreeGrace is about the only believer I have ran into that understands what The Lord Jesus Christ and John meant about "abiding." Everyone else seems to go with your carnal understanding of ' abide in me.' And striving in the flesh to be approved.

A branch connected to a vine is used to illustrate our relationship to Christ.

Abide simply means remain connected in relationship.


Abide in Him is to remain in Him.


Just as a branch receives its life from the vine, and can not live apart from it, so it is with us, we have no eternal life apart from Christ.


Here is how the scripture teaches us we are to abide in Him.


Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us. 1 John 3:24

• Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him.

JLB