If Water Baptism Saves, Then Explain What Happened To Me!

[Alithis]

There will be no arguing on this thread. In this thread, we will exercise maturity, respect and honor. The objective of this thread is to learn, including myself, proven by the fact that I have lain before you some of my most grievous of sins. I do this so that we might learn. Let us be respectful to one another as examples for New Christians.

I was baptized at twelve years old. Literally, just minutes after my baptism, after being welcomed by my church into the “body of Christ”, I promptly walked 1.5 blocks down the road and stole a bag of rubber bands from 7-11. My hair was still wet from my water baptism, and I continued to steal as before baptism.

After baptism, my mother wanted me to do something specific, the task I don’t remember (probably wanting me to go to church.) This discussion was in the garage, so I picked up an ax and began swinging it as I walked towards my mother, telling her that she’d better back off because I wasn’t going to stop swinging or moving forward.

Much later in life and suffering from Alcoholism and Cannabis abuse, I attempted to kidnap an adult that robbed me of $70. The plan was to kidnap him from the streets at gunpoint, knifepoint, razorblade point, tying him up in the car, drive him to the top of Snoqualmie Pass (at night), rob HIM, take everything he had including his clothing and kick him out of our car buck naked, in the mountains about twenty miles from home in the freezing cold temperatures.

I was totally addicted to porn both before and after my marriage. While at the end of my married, I frequented strip clubs, spending an inordinate amount of money that could have been used to get myself some help!

After divorce, I slept with as many as three different women in one week, nearly degrading four women that week.

My alcoholism became so terrible that I could consume the equivalent of 36 cans of Budweiser in a single day. I begged God repeatedly, with tears streaming down my face, that He would heal me, fix me, take this alcoholism away. He refused as I suffered for over two decades with alcohol abuse.

I was so unbelievably difficult that my former wife divorced me, even though I asked three times if there was anything I could do or say to save the marriage. I was so terrible; my former wife didn’t even respond to my pleas.

I didn’t realize it, but I have lived a total life of manipulation. Just about everything about me was so fake and false, and I didn’t even realize it. I was the epitome of a “Wolf in in sheep’s clothing.” But you see, I was BAPTIZED! And we all know that anyone that is baptized is going to heaven, right? So, I wasn’t eternally concerned about my behavior. When ever I read about eternal life, I assumed that I was saved and that reading about Wolves had nothing to do with me. I felt that my baptism protected me from the label of “Wolf” even though I was so much worse than most other “Wolves”.

I believed that once saved, always saved, meaning that all of the sins that I was committing above, I still felt that I was safe and secure in the arms of Jesus. For I, too, also associated water baptism with being saved, meaning that my salvation was always directly linked to getting dunked and wet when I was young.

When I was baptized, the ONLY sin that I mentioned above that I was guilty of, was stealing, swearing etc. So what happened to me? The bible teaches that we will not go on sinning. The Bible talks about turning from sin and sinning no more. It talks about becoming Holy and Righteous. The bible talks about a transformation and learning how to view life in a whole new way (Romans 12:2). When we change and become the best we can be, then we know that we are children of God. Our changed lives prove who we are and where we are eternally headed.

So how is it possible, that after water baptism, which saves, how is it that I could become a complete and total monster, negatively effecting thousands of people throughout my life post baptism?

Water Baptism as a saving factor for salvation has turned Christianity into a total mockery! It causes us to believe that we have been saved all throughout our lives, rendering us to say utterly stupid things such as, “Well, just pray about it”, and, “Confidence is from the Lord”, all the while we live in ways like I describe above because we KNOW NOTHING ABOUT OBEDIENCE. Terrible! These are two very terrible and destructive doctrines to be used as replacements for actually changing and obeying! Those two phrases above guarantee one thing….”DNC” which means “Do Nothing Christians”.

We Christians are the laziest, most hypocritical beasts on the planet, and I suggest that we wake up, get ahold of our rational and reasonable selves and start obeying, snapping out of our slumber. We need to STOP being WOLVES! When Jesus, Stephen and the Apostle Paul all said this same thing, “Forgive them Father, for they know not what they do”, that conceptual prayer applies to each of us in this forum. If you are living the way I describe above, then you ARE the Wolf and you most certainly need to wake up from your slumber, for Christ, Stephen and Paul are describing precisely you. I know it's harsh, but I had to wake up and face these facts about myself.

Or, do you think that you were once like me, feeling that I was "lucky" and “special” to know the "truth" which allowed me to sin freely, and that you don’t have to obey and change? I humbly beg anyone who is reading, to check their hearts. It could be the different between eternal life and death. We must obey, we just must....

There will be no arguing on this thread. In this thread, we will exercise maturity, respect and honor. The objective of this thread is to learn, including myself, proven by the fact that I have lain before you some of my most grievous of sins. I do this so that we might learn. Let us be respectful to one another as examples for New Christians.

I was baptized at twelve years old. Literally, just minutes after my baptism, after being welcomed by my church into the “body of Christ”, I promptly walked 1.5 blocks down the road and stole a bag of rubber bands from 7-11. My hair was still wet from my water baptism, and I continued to steal as before baptism.

After baptism, my mother wanted me to do something specific, the task I don’t remember (probably wanting me to go to church.) This discussion was in the garage, so I picked up an ax and began swinging it as I walked towards my mother, telling her that she’d better back off because I wasn’t going to stop swinging or moving forward.

Much later in life and suffering from Alcoholism and Cannabis abuse, I attempted to kidnap an adult that robbed me of $70. The plan was to kidnap him from the streets at gunpoint, knifepoint, razorblade point, tying him up in the car, drive him to the top of Snoqualmie Pass (at night), rob HIM, take everything he had including his clothing and kick him out of our car buck naked, in the mountains about twenty miles from home in the freezing cold temperatures.

I was totally addicted to porn both before and after my marriage. While at the end of my married, I frequented strip clubs, spending an inordinate amount of money that could have been used to get myself some help!

After divorce, I slept with as many as three different women in one week, nearly degrading four women that week.

My alcoholism became so terrible that I could consume the equivalent of 36 cans of Budweiser in a single day. I begged God repeatedly, with tears streaming down my face, that He would heal me, fix me, take this alcoholism away. He refused as I suffered for over two decades with alcohol abuse.

I was so unbelievably difficult that my former wife divorced me, even though I asked three times if there was anything I could do or say to save the marriage. I was so terrible; my former wife didn’t even respond to my pleas.

I didn’t realize it, but I have lived a total life of manipulation. Just about everything about me was so fake and false, and I didn’t even realize it. I was the epitome of a “Wolf in in sheep’s clothing.” But you see, I was BAPTIZED! And we all know that anyone that is baptized is going to heaven, right? So, I wasn’t eternally concerned about my behavior. When ever I read about eternal life, I assumed that I was saved and that reading about Wolves had nothing to do with me. I felt that my baptism protected me from the label of “Wolf” even though I was so much worse than most other “Wolves”.

I believed that once saved, always saved, meaning that all of the sins that I was committing above, I still felt that I was safe and secure in the arms of Jesus. For I, too, also associated water baptism with being saved, meaning that my salvation was always directly linked to getting dunked and wet when I was young.

When I was baptized, the ONLY sin that I mentioned above that I was guilty of, was stealing, swearing etc. So what happened to me? The bible teaches that we will not go on sinning. The Bible talks about turning from sin and sinning no more. It talks about becoming Holy and Righteous. The bible talks about a transformation and learning how to view life in a whole new way (Romans 12:2). When we change and become the best we can be, then we know that we are children of God. Our changed lives prove who we are and where we are eternally headed.

So how is it possible, that after water baptism, which saves, how is it that I could become a complete and total monster, negatively effecting thousands of people throughout my life post baptism?

Water Baptism as a saving factor for salvation has turned Christianity into a total mockery! It causes us to believe that we have been saved all throughout our lives, rendering us to say utterly stupid things such as, “Well, just pray about it”, and, “Confidence is from the Lord”, all the while we live in ways like I describe above because we KNOW NOTHING ABOUT OBEDIENCE. Terrible! These are two very terrible and destructive doctrines to be used as replacements for actually changing and obeying! Those two phrases above guarantee one thing….”DNC” which means “Do Nothing Christians”.

We Christians are the laziest, most hypocritical beasts on the planet, and I suggest that we wake up, get ahold of our rational and reasonable selves and start obeying, snapping out of our slumber. We need to STOP being WOLVES! When Jesus, Stephen and the Apostle Paul all said this same thing, “Forgive them Father, for they know not what they do”, that conceptual prayer applies to each of us in this forum. If you are living the way I describe above, then you ARE the Wolf and you most certainly need to wake up from your slumber, for Christ, Stephen and Paul are describing precisely you. I know it's harsh, but I had to wake up and face these facts about myself.

Or, do you think that you were once like me, feeling that I was "lucky" and “special” to know the "truth" which allowed me to sin freely, and that you don’t have to obey and change? I humbly beg anyone who is reading, to check their hearts. It could be the different between eternal life and death. We must obey, we just must....

you make some claims which sadly oppose scripture .
such as "water baptism which now saves you ".. is written . just misunderstood .
your life is not dissimilar to my own .
but one point you have left out is the most basic of points ..

being dunked in water or sprinkled or any other form is NOT water baptism . its just being dunked in water .

i too was baptised .. so whats going on?
its very simple .. the command is -to REPENT and be baptised .. not get baptised to repent .
the false teaching of baptism being only symbolic means people fully get wet having faith that it does and means nothing .. and nothing is what they get .

without repentance thee is no such thing as baptism -your testimony displays this . mine did too
the interesting thing is that once i did .. some 30 years later come to sincere repentance (meaning i forsook and turned away from doing works of sin because i believed (finally ) what JEsus said .
THEN ..after that repentance via a very vivid dream my wife and I both were led to water baptism ..this was followed by a vision showing me my old self dead in the waters while i was now a new creation living in Christ ....

baptism saves a person only AFTER repentance not before
if noah had not repented from his own ways he would not have obeyed god and got on the ark (or built it ) but once he believed god and so obeyed god .. the boat saved him from the judgment of God ,, since the flood account speaks of baptism ... it saves us .. because we have repented .

you , as myself , did not repent in order to be baptised .. we just got dunked in water without meaning and without power that comes through faith.. baptism is far far more then nearly all churched peoples have been led to believe .

but your overall point that people who have been WET ..without repentance, is extremely valid and people need to do exactly as you say in regard to repentance .

baptism saves us through repentance -it does not control our behaviour .. that up to us . God certainly sets a person free .. he does not make us robots .
i am free from sin
that does not mean i do not have the ability to sin
it means i do not ever have to knowingly willingly do so.

he set all Elisa free from the power of Egypt ... that they did not enter the full benefit (promise) of that freedom was because they chose to disbelieve and went back to the sin of Egypt in thier own hearts .. Egypt could not make them .. its power was destroyed in the red sea of water baptism/......

i could go on, probably should , but posts too long are read by few

 

[Alithis]

I've yet to hear of house church. I'll look into it. The other option is to just get a group going on our own.

a link to a trailer which is of interest and highly recommend -i only ink to the trailer because you can chose to watch the whole thing if the trailer interests you .

-oh i should add this is in reference to house church - because i attend no Sunday or Saturday building clubs and belong to no denomination . but we fully believe in Jesus and serve him full time on the Gospel doing the great commission

 

[Thess]

you make some claims which sadly oppose scripture .
such as "water baptism which now saves you ".. is written . just misunderstood .
your life is not dissimilar to my own .
but one point you have left out is the most basic of points ..

being dunked in water or sprinkled or any other form is NOT water baptism . its just being dunked in water .

i too was baptised .. so whats going on?
its very simple .. the command is -to REPENT and be baptised .. not get baptised to repent .
the false teaching of baptism being only symbolic means people fully get wet having faith that it does and means nothing .. and nothing is what they get .

without repentance thee is no such thing as baptism -your testimony displays this . mine did too
the interesting thing is that once i did .. some 30 years later come to sincere repentance (meaning i forsook and turned away from doing works of sin because i believed (finally ) what JEsus said .
THEN ..after that repentance via a very vivid dream my wife and I both were led to water baptism ..this was followed by a vision showing me my old self dead in the waters while i was now a new creation living in Christ ....

baptism saves a person only AFTER repentance not before
if noah had not repented from his own ways he would not have obeyed god and got on the ark (or built it ) but once he believed god and so obeyed god .. the boat saved him from the judgment of God ,, since the flood account speaks of baptism ... it saves us .. because we have repented .

you , as myself , did not repent in order to be baptised .. we just got dunked in water without meaning and without power that comes through faith.. baptism is far far more then nearly all churched peoples have been led to believe .

but your overall point that people who have been WET ..without repentance, is extremely valid and people need to do exactly as you say in regard to repentance .

baptism saves us through repentance -it does not control our behaviour .. that up to us . God certainly sets a person free .. he does not make us robots .
i am free from sin
that does not mean i do not have the ability to sin
it means i do not ever have to knowingly willingly do so.

he set all Elisa free from the power of Egypt ... that they did not enter the full benefit (promise) of that freedom was because they chose to disbelieve and went back to the sin of Egypt in thier own hearts .. Egypt could not make them .. its power was destroyed in the red sea of water baptism/......

i could go on, probably should , but posts too long are read by few

This is cool. You're the first to actually teach this doctrine in this thread. You wrote that baptism actually saves us, but only after repentance. Ok, I hear you. So if this is true, let's test it. Here is my test: if your teaching is true, can a person be saved in the middle of the desert where there is no water to be found?

 

[Thess]

a link to a trailer which is of interest and highly recommend -i only ink to the trailer because you can chose to watch the whole thing if the trailer interests you .

-oh i should add this is in reference to house church - because i attend no Sunday or Saturday building clubs and belong to no denomination . but we fully believe in Jesus and serve him full time on the Gospel doing the great commission

Thank you for sharing that. I appreciate it much.

 

[Oldmantook]

I've yet to hear of house church. I'll look into it. The other option is to just get a group going on our own.

yes, get your own group and meet in houses = house church. no paid staff, no office expenses, no church mortgage and utilities - just simple church being led by the Holy Spirit instead of the order of service as dictated by the morning worship bulletin.

 

[Oldmantook]

This is cool. You're the first to actually teach this doctrine in this thread. You wrote that baptism actually saves us, but only after repentance. Ok, I hear you. So if this is true, let's test it. Here is my test: if your teaching is true, can a person be saved in the middle of the desert where there is no water to be found?

Or, a person genuinely repents as is saved on his/her death bed. There is no time or facilities to get dunked in water. Is that person still saved despite not being able to get baptized?

 

[Thess]

Or, a person genuinely repents as is saved on his/her death bed. There is no time or facilities to get dunked in water. Is that person still saved despite not being able to get baptized?

I hear what you're saying. So if a person is not on their death bed, but a person is led to possess effectual belief, they have made their full submission, they are absolutely ready to obey, they already feel confident and they want to share the Good News exactly as they have been taught....but man, I'm going to hell lest I get struck my a meteor. There is no water; I came up short.

Nah. My God doesn't play games like that. My God is so Power that He has created the entire universe. His Power is so intense, He has no need for word games or phrase games. He is clear and easy to understand.

AFTER the Holy Spirit fell on the Gentiles at Cornelius's house, Peter asked if any of the Jews had any objection if the Gentiles received a water baptism. That's a strange thing to request, since it's an absolute requirement, and no lives are in jeopardy for some special one-off rule. AFTER Philip led the Eunuch to Christ, it wasn't Philip that said, "Look. Here is water for the required, life-saving baptism that you need. Please, stop the chariot! Here's extra money for the delay. This baptism must be done now." No, that isn't what happened at all. The Eunuch suggested that he get baptized and not Philip, and actually, the Eunuch put it to Philip in question form.

If these passages don't compel you, then there's nothing left for me to say. I have time for reasonable discussion, so please, let's not discard scripture. I hate it when we do that, here. We toss around God's Word as if He doesn't notice. He does. Yikes.

 

[salt-n-light]

There will be no arguing on this thread. In this thread, we will exercise maturity, respect and honor. The objective of this thread is to learn, including myself, proven by the fact that I have lain before you some of my most grievous of sins. I do this so that we might learn. Let us be respectful to one another as examples for New Christians.

I was baptized at twelve years old. Literally, just minutes after my baptism, after being welcomed by my church into the “body of Christ”, I promptly walked 1.5 blocks down the road and stole a bag of rubber bands from 7-11. My hair was still wet from my water baptism, and I continued to steal as before baptism.

After baptism, my mother wanted me to do something specific, the task I don’t remember (probably wanting me to go to church.) This discussion was in the garage, so I picked up an ax and began swinging it as I walked towards my mother, telling her that she’d better back off because I wasn’t going to stop swinging or moving forward.

Much later in life and suffering from Alcoholism and Cannabis abuse, I attempted to kidnap an adult that robbed me of $70. The plan was to kidnap him from the streets at gunpoint, knifepoint, razorblade point, tying him up in the car, drive him to the top of Snoqualmie Pass (at night), rob HIM, take everything he had including his clothing and kick him out of our car buck naked, in the mountains about twenty miles from home in the freezing cold temperatures.

I was totally addicted to porn both before and after my marriage. While at the end of my married, I frequented strip clubs, spending an inordinate amount of money that could have been used to get myself some help!

After divorce, I slept with as many as three different women in one week, nearly degrading four women that week.

My alcoholism became so terrible that I could consume the equivalent of 36 cans of Budweiser in a single day. I begged God repeatedly, with tears streaming down my face, that He would heal me, fix me, take this alcoholism away. He refused as I suffered for over two decades with alcohol abuse.

I was so unbelievably difficult that my former wife divorced me, even though I asked three times if there was anything I could do or say to save the marriage. I was so terrible; my former wife didn’t even respond to my pleas.

I didn’t realize it, but I have lived a total life of manipulation. Just about everything about me was so fake and false, and I didn’t even realize it. I was the epitome of a “Wolf in in sheep’s clothing.” But you see, I was BAPTIZED! And we all know that anyone that is baptized is going to heaven, right? So, I wasn’t eternally concerned about my behavior. When ever I read about eternal life, I assumed that I was saved and that reading about Wolves had nothing to do with me. I felt that my baptism protected me from the label of “Wolf” even though I was so much worse than most other “Wolves”.

I believed that once saved, always saved, meaning that all of the sins that I was committing above, I still felt that I was safe and secure in the arms of Jesus. For I, too, also associated water baptism with being saved, meaning that my salvation was always directly linked to getting dunked and wet when I was young.

When I was baptized, the ONLY sin that I mentioned above that I was guilty of, was stealing, swearing etc. So what happened to me? The bible teaches that we will not go on sinning. The Bible talks about turning from sin and sinning no more. It talks about becoming Holy and Righteous. The bible talks about a transformation and learning how to view life in a whole new way (Romans 12:2). When we change and become the best we can be, then we know that we are children of God. Our changed lives prove who we are and where we are eternally headed.

So how is it possible, that after water baptism, which saves, how is it that I could become a complete and total monster, negatively effecting thousands of people throughout my life post baptism?

Water Baptism as a saving factor for salvation has turned Christianity into a total mockery! It causes us to believe that we have been saved all throughout our lives, rendering us to say utterly stupid things such as, “Well, just pray about it”, and, “Confidence is from the Lord”, all the while we live in ways like I describe above because we KNOW NOTHING ABOUT OBEDIENCE. Terrible! These are two very terrible and destructive doctrines to be used as replacements for actually changing and obeying! Those two phrases above guarantee one thing….”DNC” which means “Do Nothing Christians”.

We Christians are the laziest, most hypocritical beasts on the planet, and I suggest that we wake up, get ahold of our rational and reasonable selves and start obeying, snapping out of our slumber. We need to STOP being WOLVES! When Jesus, Stephen and the Apostle Paul all said this same thing, “Forgive them Father, for they know not what they do”, that conceptual prayer applies to each of us in this forum. If you are living the way I describe above, then you ARE the Wolf and you most certainly need to wake up from your slumber, for Christ, Stephen and Paul are describing precisely you. I know it's harsh, but I had to wake up and face these facts about myself.

Or, do you think that you were once like me, feeling that I was "lucky" and “special” to know the "truth" which allowed me to sin freely, and that you don’t have to obey and change? I humbly beg anyone who is reading, to check their hearts. It could be the different between eternal life and death. We must obey, we just must....

How is it possible to ask other christians to be respectful, but then disrespect the same people in the same post? Can't wrap my mind around that.

But who taught you that water baptism saves? Usually, there are classes before taking baptism that would help you understand the steps that you were taking and its significance, and it requires you to first already be saved. At least for my church. Maybe that didn't happen for you, but its unfair to paint such a broad stroke from only your experience.

 

[MartyF]

You weren’t Baptized, you were dunked. Water Polo is not Baptism.

 

[Oldmantook]

I hear what you're saying. So if a person is not on their death bed, but a person is led to possess effectual belief, they have made their full submission, they are absolutely ready to obey, they already feel confident and they want to share the Good News exactly as they have been taught....but man, I'm going to hell lest I get struck my a meteor. There is no water; I came up short.

Nah. My God doesn't play games like that. My God is so Power that He has created the entire universe. His Power is so intense, He has no need for word games or phrase games. He is clear and easy to understand.

AFTER the Holy Spirit fell on the Gentiles at Cornelius's house, Peter asked if any of the Jews had any objection if the Gentiles received a water baptism. That's a strange thing to request, since it's an absolute requirement, and no lives are in jeopardy for some special one-off rule. AFTER Philip led the Eunuch to Christ, it wasn't Philip that said, "Look. Here is water for the required, life-saving baptism that you need. Please, stop the chariot! Here's extra money for the delay. This baptism must be done now." No, that isn't what happened at all. The Eunuch suggested that he get baptized and not Philip, and actually, the Eunuch put it to Philip in question form.

If these passages don't compel you, then there's nothing left for me to say. I have time for reasonable discussion, so please, let's not discard scripture. I hate it when we do that, here. We toss around God's Word as if He doesn't notice. He does. Yikes.

Water baptism in and of itself does not save. That is why someone who is genuinely saved upon his death bed is saved without the opportunity to get dunked.
HOWEVER, suppose that same person does not immediately die but unexpectedly recovers. He now has the opportunity to get water baptized but for whatever reason, consistently refuses to do so despite knowing that is commanded of him. He knows Jesus as his savior but is disobedient to being baptized. In other words he believes (Jn 3:16) but disobeys (contrary to Heb 5:9). So although he may have been born again, his disobedience in this simple command of baptism disqualifies him from eternal life.

 

[DamianWarS]

There will be no arguing on this thread. In this thread, we will exercise maturity, respect and honor. The objective of this thread is to learn, including myself, proven by the fact that I have lain before you some of my most grievous of sins. I do this so that we might learn. Let us be respectful to one another as examples for New Christians.

I was baptized at twelve years old. Literally, just minutes after my baptism, after being welcomed by my church into the “body of Christ”, I promptly walked 1.5 blocks down the road and stole a bag of rubber bands from 7-11. My hair was still wet from my water baptism, and I continued to steal as before baptism.

After baptism, my mother wanted me to do something specific, the task I don’t remember (probably wanting me to go to church.) This discussion was in the garage, so I picked up an ax and began swinging it as I walked towards my mother, telling her that she’d better back off because I wasn’t going to stop swinging or moving forward.

Much later in life and suffering from Alcoholism and Cannabis abuse, I attempted to kidnap an adult that robbed me of $70. The plan was to kidnap him from the streets at gunpoint, knifepoint, razorblade point, tying him up in the car, drive him to the top of Snoqualmie Pass (at night), rob HIM, take everything he had including his clothing and kick him out of our car buck naked, in the mountains about twenty miles from home in the freezing cold temperatures.

I was totally addicted to porn both before and after my marriage. While at the end of my married, I frequented strip clubs, spending an inordinate amount of money that could have been used to get myself some help!

After divorce, I slept with as many as three different women in one week, nearly degrading four women that week.

My alcoholism became so terrible that I could consume the equivalent of 36 cans of Budweiser in a single day. I begged God repeatedly, with tears streaming down my face, that He would heal me, fix me, take this alcoholism away. He refused as I suffered for over two decades with alcohol abuse.

I was so unbelievably difficult that my former wife divorced me, even though I asked three times if there was anything I could do or say to save the marriage. I was so terrible; my former wife didn’t even respond to my pleas.

I didn’t realize it, but I have lived a total life of manipulation. Just about everything about me was so fake and false, and I didn’t even realize it. I was the epitome of a “Wolf in in sheep’s clothing.” But you see, I was BAPTIZED! And we all know that anyone that is baptized is going to heaven, right? So, I wasn’t eternally concerned about my behavior. When ever I read about eternal life, I assumed that I was saved and that reading about Wolves had nothing to do with me. I felt that my baptism protected me from the label of “Wolf” even though I was so much worse than most other “Wolves”.

I believed that once saved, always saved, meaning that all of the sins that I was committing above, I still felt that I was safe and secure in the arms of Jesus. For I, too, also associated water baptism with being saved, meaning that my salvation was always directly linked to getting dunked and wet when I was young.

When I was baptized, the ONLY sin that I mentioned above that I was guilty of, was stealing, swearing etc. So what happened to me? The bible teaches that we will not go on sinning. The Bible talks about turning from sin and sinning no more. It talks about becoming Holy and Righteous. The bible talks about a transformation and learning how to view life in a whole new way (Romans 12:2). When we change and become the best we can be, then we know that we are children of God. Our changed lives prove who we are and where we are eternally headed.

So how is it possible, that after water baptism, which saves, how is it that I could become a complete and total monster, negatively effecting thousands of people throughout my life post baptism?

Water Baptism as a saving factor for salvation has turned Christianity into a total mockery! It causes us to believe that we have been saved all throughout our lives, rendering us to say utterly stupid things such as, “Well, just pray about it”, and, “Confidence is from the Lord”, all the while we live in ways like I describe above because we KNOW NOTHING ABOUT OBEDIENCE. Terrible! These are two very terrible and destructive doctrines to be used as replacements for actually changing and obeying! Those two phrases above guarantee one thing….”DNC” which means “Do Nothing Christians”.

We Christians are the laziest, most hypocritical beasts on the planet, and I suggest that we wake up, get ahold of our rational and reasonable selves and start obeying, snapping out of our slumber. We need to STOP being WOLVES! When Jesus, Stephen and the Apostle Paul all said this same thing, “Forgive them Father, for they know not what they do”, that conceptual prayer applies to each of us in this forum. If you are living the way I describe above, then you ARE the Wolf and you most certainly need to wake up from your slumber, for Christ, Stephen and Paul are describing precisely you. I know it's harsh, but I had to wake up and face these facts about myself.

Or, do you think that you were once like me, feeling that I was "lucky" and “special” to know the "truth" which allowed me to sin freely, and that you don’t have to obey and change? I humbly beg anyone who is reading, to check their hearts. It could be the different between eternal life and death. We must obey, we just must....

Baptism saves as much as a wedding ceremony marrys. It also demands our part just like a marriage demands our part as well.

 

[Thess]

How is it possible to ask other christians to be respectful, but then disrespect the same people in the same post? Can't wrap my mind around that.

But who taught you that water baptism saves? Usually, there are classes before taking baptism that would help you understand the steps that you were taking and its significance, and it requires you to first already be saved. At least for my church. Maybe that didn't happen for you, but its unfair to paint such a broad stroke from only your experience.

Thank you for sharing, but if you could give some details about whom I have disrespected as well as details about the broad paintbrush that I use. It would make things clear if you could show me whom I have sinned against and what the sin was/is.

As for who taught me that water baptism saves, this concept comes up throughout this forum, and finally with someone in this thread who is teaching the doctrine. So I'm unsure of why this is such a mystery to you.

 

[Thess]

Water baptism in and of itself does not save. That is why someone who is genuinely saved upon his death bed is saved without the opportunity to get dunked.
HOWEVER, suppose that same person does not immediately die but unexpectedly recovers. He now has the opportunity to get water baptized but for whatever reason, consistently refuses to do so despite knowing that is commanded of him. He knows Jesus as his savior but is disobedient to being baptized. In other words he believes (Jn 3:16) but disobeys (contrary to Heb 5:9). So although he may have been born again, his disobedience in this simple command of baptism disqualifies him from eternal life.

I hear what you're saying, but I don't find any teaching that states that water baptism is a requirement for eternal life. Mark 1:8 talks about the new baptism, which is not of water (John the Baptist way), but a new baptism where we are immersed into Christ, The Holy Spirit, God. This baptism could be done in the Holocaust camps, in the desert or in any prison where there is no dunking tank. Being immersed into the Spirit can be done any time, any where. God is reasonable and has made salvation as such. Mark 1:8 defines the new "baptism".

 

[Thess]

Baptism saves as much as a wedding ceremony marrys. It also demands our part just like a marriage demands our part as well.

Just to be clear, if a person doesn't get wet, they cannot go to heaven?

 

[salt-n-light]

Thank you for sharing, but if you could give some details about whom I have disrespected as well as details about the broad paintbrush that I use. It would make things clear if you could show me whom I have sinned against and what the sin was/is.

As for who taught me that water baptism saves, this concept comes up throughout this forum, and finally with someone in this thread who is teaching the doctrine. So I'm unsure of why this is such a mystery to you.

"We Christians are the laziest, most hypocritical beasts on the planet, and I suggest that we wake up, get ahold of our rational and reasonable selves and start obeying, snapping out of our slumber."

How it went from asking Christians to be respectful because of new Christians to calling Christians the "laziest, most hypocritical beasts on the planet", I don't understand how you got to such strong language. More so how you got to that conclusion from being dunked in water.

I was asking how you got that concept from the time you were actually water baptized. Who encouraged you to go? Were you taught at that time what it meant? I was also baptised young, and although I still fell away at some point, its hard for me to contribute it to a water baptism because at that time, I knew what it signifies. How I valued it I can't put blame on anyone else but myself. I ask because I wanted to know more about the background of that story.

I agree that it is a concept that often floats around, but again I can't assume that its something that is commonly taught, it's more uncommon on my end, so I don't think its fair to put a broad stroke that all Christians promote water baptism for salvation, much less proceed to call Christians lazy hypocritical beasts". I'm sorry if they did teach that, but the bigger issue sounds like you weren't intended in following Jesus in your early years anyway. But now you are, praise God for that.

 

[Thess]

Or, a person genuinely repents as is saved on his/her death bed. There is no time or facilities to get dunked in water. Is that person still saved despite not being able to get baptized?

Absolutely. Mart 1-8 makes a clear distinction of old water baptism and the new baptism, which is being immersed into the Hold Spirit. We receive the Holy Spirit when we are "baptized" into the Spirit, or, immersed into the Spirit.

Consider the Gospel of John. This is an interesting book to think about because it does not focus on baptism, but belief. This writing is specifically written to show HOW to have a right relationship with God, and water baptism comes up short. Search for baptism in all it's forms in John and the word miserably fails to demonstrate that water saves. Search for the word "Believe" and it appears something like 18 times (I believe).

I water baptism saves, then we might as well go back to the old Law of Moses to ensure that we're covered. Baptism is an act, and acts of worship cannot save.

 

[Thess]

"We Christians are the laziest, most hypocritical beasts on the planet, and I suggest that we wake up, get ahold of our rational and reasonable selves and start obeying, snapping out of our slumber."

How it went from asking Christians be respectful to calling Christians the "laziest, most hypocritical beasts on the planet", i dont understand how you got to such strong language. More so how you got to that conclusion from being dunked in water.

I was asking how you got that concept from the time you were actually water baptised. Who encouraged you to go? Were you taught at that time what it meant? I agree that it is a concept that often floats around, but again I can't assume that its something that is commonly taught, it's more uncommon on my end, so I don't think its fair to put a broad stroke that all Christians promote water baptism for salvation. I'm sorry if they did teach that, but the bigger issue sounds like you weren't intented in following Jesus in your early years anyways. But now you are, praise God for that.

No, I'm not being rude when I wrote what I wrote. Those that are being rude and cruel are the ones that I am describing. If you knew my story of molestations, being beaten with garden hoses, having marijuana grown in my closet as a little boy by my father, having pastors, elders, preachers wives and preachers kids and even missionaries in my family, yet they do not possess love. These people, these exact people watch my parents pay the piano player at my church, who turned out to be gay and "wanted me", and no one did anything to help my lazy parents or myself. As of today, my entire "Christian" sets of family have completely abandoned me. All former friends have abandoned me for my faith, rejecting that I was found by God just being dying. I have no one, not one person in my life. More than this, I've yet to ever meet a single Christian that modeled the kind of person that we are to be as written in scripture. I'm not seeing things they way you are and I'm not sure why. Again, explain my sins that I have committed, here, and I'll make full amends and more.

The concept is "hidden". Christians life by a "secret gospel". Think about that for a few minutes. I don't think that my message reached your heart/ability to understand.

I do not believe that 100% all "Christians" or churches are disqualified, but it sure appears that way to me. Or, have you not read everything that I've written, here? If you had, these questions and charges that you have of me would be answered.

 

[DamianWarS]

Just to be clear, if a person doesn't get wet, they cannot go to heaven?

as much as a person who doesn't go through a wedding ceremony cannot be married

 

[Thess]

as much as a person who doesn't go through a wedding ceremony cannot be married

Then Philip should have demanded that the Eunuch be baptized when Philip saw the water. But that didn't happen; that's not how the story goes. The Eunuch asked if it would be reasonable to get baptized right then. That doesn't make sense. Then we have the same general picture with Cornelius and Peter, for after the Holy Spirit fell upon the Gentiles, Peter asked the Jews if they objected to water baptism. Again, that is an odd request if water is the final key. Peter wouldn't have asked, he would have demanded....and this AFTER the Holy Spirit was already given, evident by the text.

That's what the text says and it confirms Mark 1:8. All of scripture regarding water baptism has to pass through Mark 1:8.

 

[salt-n-light]

No, I'm not being rude when I wrote what I wrote. Those that are being rude and cruel are the ones that I am describing. If you knew my story of molestations, being beaten with garden hoses, having marijuana grown in my closet as a little boy by my father, having pastors, elders, preachers wives and preachers kids and even missionaries in my family, yet they do not possess love. These people, these exact people watch my parents pay the piano player at my church, who turned out to be gay and "wanted me", and no one did anything to help my lazy parents or myself. As of today, my entire "Christian" sets of family have completely abandoned me. All former friends have abandoned me for my faith, rejecting that I was found by God just being dying. I have no one, not one person in my life. More than this, I've yet to ever meet a single Christian that modeled the kind of person that we are to be as written in scripture. I'm not seeing things they way you are and I'm not sure why. Again, explain my sins that I have committed, here, and I'll make full amends and more.

The concept is "hidden". Christians life by a "secret gospel". Think about that for a few minutes. I don't think that my message reached your heart/ability to understand.

I do not believe that 100% all "Christians" or churches are disqualified, but it sure appears that way to me. Or, have you not read everything that I've written, here? If you had, these questions and charges that you have of me would be answered.

First off sorry that you went through all that, and if you need a venting ear I am here, free to DM me. It makes more sense now that it didn't just come from you being baptized, but a whole slew of injustices done in your life. For that I'll be praying for your peace.

I could only address as much as you tell us and the topic, which was the water baptism equating to salvation. But one thing that would be helpful in the dialogue, is to first not make it hostile for conversation. It makes it feel like I'm already the enemy in the thread.

But in terms of the questions i ask about how you learned about water baptism and who taught you at that age, im still not getting any answers. So in that case,I don't think I would be of much more value to this conversation at this point.