Warning: anyone who is a habitual sinner is NOT in a saved state

[BCsenior]

Work your salvation out with fear and trembling.

Yes, this is Philippians 2:12.

So, the question is ...
Does this verse really threaten one's salvation,
or
is Paul bluffing, exaggerating, even lying?

 

[FreeGrace2]

Yes, this is Philippians 2:12.

So, the question is ...
Does this verse really threaten one's salvation,
or
is Paul bluffing, exaggerating, even lying?

Neither.

Salvation has 3 aspects to it.

1. past tense salvation: we have been saved from the penalty of sin. This is our justification.
2. present tense salvation: we are being saved from the power of sin. This is our sanctification, or spiritual growth.
3. future tense salvation: we will be saved from the presence of sin. This is our glorification.

So Phil 2:12 refers to our sanctification process, the growing up in regard to our salvation, per 1 Pet 2:2.

 

[BCsenior]

If a person consistently refuses to repent of sin and produce fruit, disregarding the guidance of the Holy Spirit they will be cut off from Christ for not abiding. John 15:1-6

Yes, this is why I'm here ... to warn believers about practicing habitual sin without any repentance!

Sincere repentance will eventually lead to overcoming your sins.
Sincere repentance will eventually lead to being victorious over your sins.

Many verses in the NT condemn the believer
who practices sin without repentance ...
yes, condemn the believer to eternal death.
>>>> Anyone care to see them? <<<<

 

[Danthemailman]

And this requires revelation by the most precious Holy Spirit as He reveals "all things" (John 14). Good Luck.

Why would I need luck when I have an ALL-sufficient Savior?

 

[Danthemailman]

Yes, this is why I'm here ... to warn believers about practicing habitual sin without any repentance!

Sincere repentance will eventually lead to overcoming your sins.

Sincere repentance will eventually lead to being victorious over your sins.

1 John 3:9 - No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

Who is it that practices habitual sin? 1 Corinthians 6:9 - Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.

 

[Mountainmanbob]

Yes, this is Philippians 2:12.
So, the question is ...
Does this verse really threaten one's salvation,

I believe once saved nothing can threaten our salvation for the Lord will not lose one that God has given to Him.

But some on that day who think they were saved will be told I never knew you.

We are saved by works that would be correct but not our works the works of Jesus.

I believe the verse quoted reminds us to examine ourselves do not be deceived my brothers and sisters.

For we do not wish to be fooled on that important day.

M-Bob

 

[BCsenior]

But their salvation is secure, because He tells believers that they will NEVER perish John 10:28.

I've told you dozens of times ...
John 10:27 is talking about believers:
who hear His voice,
who are known (approved of) by Him,
who follow Him.

E.G. If you follow Him, you are obeying
His commandments (4 times in John 14).

Very few in American churches today
fit this description.

 

[BCsenior]

Ok I’m not going to continue this discussion if your just going to insult me. Your implying that I don’t have the Holy Spirit indwelling in me which hurts. Have a blessed evening.

Okay, perhaps you've learned that it's a waste of your time dialoging with these "grace" guys.

 

[FreeGrace2]

I've told you dozens of times ...
John 10:27 is talking about believers:
who hear His voice,
who are known (approved of) by Him,
who follow Him.

Gr8Grace certainly knows that v.27 is a description of Jesus' sheep. It's about what they DO, but not HOW they shall never perish.

That bit of wisdom comes from v.28 where Jesus was quite clear about the fact that it is recipients of eternal life that shall never perish.

E.G. If you follow Him, you are obeying
His commandments (4 times in John 14).

To follow Him means to be in fellowship with Him. And those who do that will bear fruit. John 15

Very few in American churches today
fit this description.

Pastors all over the world have failed to properly disciple their flocks. And that implicates a whole lot of seminaries as well.

 

[FreeGrace2]

BNR32FAN said: ↑
Ok I’m not going to continue this discussion if your just going to insult me. Your implying that I don’t have the Holy Spirit indwelling in me which hurts. Have a blessed evening.

Okay, perhaps you've learned that it's a waste of your time dialoging with these "grace" guys.

What kind of dishonest motivation led you to use quote marks around the word grace?

Are you insinuating that Gr8Grace and I are not grace guys?

Please explain yourself.

 

[Gr8Grace]

I do however stand behind that statement.

Then my question still stands.

Ok now my turn to ask. How is someone saved if they are cut off from Jesus? If they do not abide in Him and He does not abide in them.

It seems obvious to me, but maybe not to others. My response to you here is DIRECTLY related to my question to you...........How, EXACTLY,SPECIFICALLY do we adhere to the guidance of the Holy Spirit to be saved?

This is abiding in Him,fellowship "adhering to the guidance of the Holy Spirit."~~

Do not grieve the Spirit.
Do not quench the Spirit.
Be filled with the Spirit.
Walk by means of the Spirit.

If we don't understand these principles and APPLY them.......we are out of fellowship,not abiding in Him, Not 'adhering to the guidance of the Spirit'..............CUT off from Christ.

The forever indwelling Spirit, that is our GUARANTEE is grieved or quenched and is not leading us. And if we remain in this state we will be least in His kingdom after we are evaluated at His Bema seat.

 

[RDKirk]

In God's view of the total timeline of creation (which includes heaven as a created entity), all events of eternity are completed and God has a full, continuous view of them. God's "now" encompasses all eternity.

That means God sees in His "now" every saved individual as already and completely saved. Now, right now. God sees as saved in His "now" people who may not yet be born as we experience time. God sees as saved in His "now" today's raging atheist who will be saved a year from now as we experience time.

So in all of our little endlessly nattering debates over the matter we should keep in mind:

The end of a matter is better than the beginning, and a patient spirit is better than a proud one. -- Ecclesiastes 7

And God already sees the "end." The state of your salvation is a done deal in His "now."

 

[Gr8Grace]

I've told you dozens of times ...
John 10:27 is talking about believers:
who hear His voice,
who are known (approved of) by Him,
who follow Him.

I know it's talking about believers. Real time example~~ It is a description of me and I have no doubt it is a description of FreeGrace. And this is what He tells us~~~He gives us eternal life and (this is real time remember,Right now, from here on out).....We shall NEVER perish John 10:28.

Very few in American churches today
fit this description.

OH, so you do know vs 27 is a DESCRIPTION of His sheep!

 

[Gr8Grace]

Okay, perhaps you've learned that it's a waste of your time dialoging with these "grace" guys.

John, you just hate the fact that Grace, His wonderful FREE Grace, smashes your self righteous working for religion to bits.

Grace backs religion into a corner, so religion has to make "grace" a bad word. Truly sad.

 

[Gr8Grace]

So in all of our little endlessly nattering debates over the matter we should keep in mind:

The end of a matter is better than the beginning, and a patient spirit is better than a proud one. -- Ecclesiastes 7

And God already sees the "end." The state of your salvation is a done deal in His "now."

Right NOW, is our time to run the race as if to win. Yes, salvation is done. We are going to enter the Kingdom.

What is at stake right NOW, is reigning with Him or not reigning with Him after we enter His Kingdom. Being a babe or a spiritually mature believer upon entering His kingdom.

And the FACT and absolute truth of eternal security is the very first hurdle to clear to start advancing in His plan for us. Our reign, rank, rewards for all ETERNITY are at stake right NOW.

 

[FreeGrace2]

In God's view of the total timeline of creation (which includes heaven as a created entity), all events of eternity are completed and God has a full, continuous view of them. God's "now" encompasses all eternity.

That means God sees in His "now" every saved individual as already and completely saved. Now, right now. God sees as saved in His "now" people who may not yet be born as we experience time. God sees as saved in His "now" today's raging atheist who will be saved a year from now as we experience time.

So in all of our little endlessly nattering debates over the matter we should keep in mind:

The end of a matter is better than the beginning, and a patient spirit is better than a proud one. -- Ecclesiastes 7

And God already sees the "end." The state of your salvation is a done deal in His "now."

Very well said!! Thanks.

 

[RDKirk]

Right NOW, is our time to run the race as if to win. Yes, salvation is done. We are going to enter the Kingdom.

What is at stake right NOW, is reigning with Him or not reigning with Him after we enter His Kingdom. Being a babe or a spiritually mature believer upon entering His kingdom.

And the FACT and absolute truth of eternal security is the very first hurdle to clear to start advancing in His plan for us. Our reign, rank, rewards for all ETERNITY are at stake right NOW.

Everyone who enters the Kingdom of Heaven will "reign," whether over a little or a lot.

To one he gave five talents, to another two, to another one, to each according to his ability.

The master was concerned that each of his stewards be successful. He did not give any steward more than he could handle.

Has anyone ever considered the two-talent steward? His reward for properly handling his two talents continued to be commensurate with his ability.

The two-talent steward probably said, "I'm glad I didn't get five talents! That much would have kept me up at night!"

The master never gave him more than he could handle, but enough to be a successful challenge.

The reign each person receives will be consummate with his ability so that every person will be challenged but successful ...for eternity.

Heaven is not going to be an eternity of regret for anyone, because an eternity of regret would not be heaven, it would be hell.

 

[Gr8Grace]

Everyone who enters the Kingdom of Heaven will "reign," whether over a little or a lot.

To one he gave five talents, to another two, to another one, to each according to his ability.

Exactly. And If we choose, now, to advance in His doctrines........our ability also advances.

Heaven is not going to be an eternity of regret for anyone, because an eternity of regret would not be heaven, it would be hell.

No question about that.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Everyone who enters the Kingdom of Heaven will "reign," whether over a little or a lot.

Not what the Bible says.

For example, in Rom 8:17 we have 2 distinct heirships, one based on being a child of God. That's ENTRY into the kingdom. The other is based on suffering for Christ, which not every believer has done.

Rom 8:17 - Now if we are children, then we are heirs—heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ, if indeed we share in his sufferings in order that we may also share in his glory.

The red words indicate that all children of God will have the inheritance of being with God in the kingdom.

The blue words are about co-reigning with Christ "if indeed" we share in His sufferings.

The same principle is also stated in 2 Tim 2:12 - if we endure, we will also reign with him. If we deny, he will also deny us;

Again, the red words are about reigning with Christ IF we endure (in the faith).

The blue words are about being denied the privilege of reigning with Christ IF we deny (don't endure in the faith) Him.

To one he gave five talents, to another two, to another one, to each according to his ability.

The master was concerned that each of his stewards be successful. He did not give any steward more than he could handle.

Let's examine all of what the Bible says about these servants and talents.

Matt 25 has the context.

We know that "servant" refers to believers from v.14 - “Again, it will be like a man going on a journey, who called his servants and entrusted his wealth to them."

Since God is compared to a man on a journey, who has servants that serve him, it is impossible to consider these servants to be unbelievers.

Then, we see what the man gave to his servants in v.15 - To one he gave five bags of gold, to another two bags, and to another one bag, each according to his ability. Then he went on his journey.

So, 3 servants, each given a different amount. What did the 1 bag man do and get?

v.18 - But the man who had received one bag went off, dug a hole in the ground and hid his master’s money.

And what did the man do to the 1 bagger servant?
24 “Then the man who had received one bag of gold came. ‘Master,’ he said, ‘I knew that you are a hard man, harvesting where you have not sown and gathering where you have not scattered seed.
25 So I was afraid and went out and hid your gold in the ground. See, here is what belongs to you.’
26 “His master replied, ‘You wicked, lazy servant! So you knew that I harvest where I have not sown and gather where I have not scattered seed?
27 Well then, you should have put my money on deposit with the bankers, so that when I returned I would have received it back with interest.
28 “ ‘So take the bag of gold from him and give it to the one who has ten bags.
29 For whoever has will be given more, and they will have an abundance. Whoever does not have, even what they have will be taken from them.

So, what you posted about this parable was ripped from its proper context.

Has anyone ever considered the two-talent steward? His reward for properly handling his two talents continued to be commensurate with his ability.

The two-talent steward probably said, "I'm glad I didn't get five talents! That much would have kept me up at night!"

The master never gave him more than he could handle, but enough to be a successful challenge.

The reign each person receives will be consummate with his ability so that every person will be challenged but successful ...for eternity.

How do you explain the 1 talent (bag) servant then?

Heaven is not going to be an eternity of regret for anyone, because an eternity of regret would not be heaven, it would be hell.

No one said it will be about regret. So don't assume that even though there will be many who LOSE their reward that they will have regret. Regret belongs to this life, with our corrupt fallen natures. We don't have one in heaven.

Consider these verses:
2 John 8 - Watch out that you do not lose what you have worked for, but that you may be rewarded fully.

Rev 22:12 - “Look, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to each person according to what they have done.

2 Cor 5:10 - For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each of us may receive what is due us for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad.

 

[RDKirk]

Not what the Bible says.

For example, in Rom 8:17 we have 2 distinct heirships, one based on being a child of God. That's ENTRY into the kingdom. The other is based on suffering for Christ, which not every believer has done.

Rom 8:17 - Now if we are children, then we are heirs—heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ, if indeed we share in his sufferings in order that we may also share in his glory.

The red words indicate that all children of God will have the inheritance of being with God in the kingdom.

The blue words are about co-reigning with Christ "if indeed" we share in His sufferings.

The same principle is also stated in 2 Tim 2:12 - if we endure, we will also reign with him. If we deny, he will also deny us;

Again, the red words are about reigning with Christ IF we endure (in the faith).

The blue words are about being denied the privilege of reigning with Christ IF we deny (don't endure in the faith) Him.

I would dispute your understanding.

Those who do not share His suffering in any way (see 1 Peter 4:12-19) are not part of Him in the first place--those are not saved people. All who are saved will suffer in some way for the Gospel. Those who do not suffer are not saved.

Those who do not endure, those who deny Him are also not part of Him in the first place. Those who do not endure are not saved.

All those who enter heaven will reign in some capacity.

Do you not know that the Lord’s people will judge the world? And if you are to judge the world, are you not competent to judge trivial cases? Do you not know that we will judge angels?