Warning: anyone who is a habitual sinner is NOT in a saved state

[Gr8Grace]

Ok so let’s just recap so we can get all of this together in one post. Basically F2G and G8G teach that you can disregard what the Bible says about sin and repentance.

Total nonsense. We both have been trying to show you HOW to live the Christian way of life CORRECTLY......Because ALL your post's indicate that you are trying to live as a believer through your OWN righteousness. Which is arguably worse than all the "worst case scenarios" you mention about overt sinning.
Matt 23:13~~New American Standard Bible
"But woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites, because you shut off the kingdom of heaven from people; for you do not enter in yourselves, nor do you allow those who are entering to go in.

And we have said over and over that those who continue to live in sin.......Will be disciplined, harshly if need be. Will lose reign,rank,rewards,blessing in time,blessing in eternity,crowns and end up living in MISERY...........This also goes for believers who continue to live in self righteousness and their own 'good'(menstrual rags) and have not a clue about FELLOWSHIP.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Ok so let’s just recap so we can get all of this together in one post. Basically F2G and G8G teach that you can disregard what the Bible says about sin and repentance.

OK, let's just stop this insanity. Neither he nor I have EVER said such a stupid thing.

Those believers who disregard what the Bible says about sin and repentance will face God's PAINFUL DISCIPLINE, per Heb 12:11. So don't kid yourself. No one will get away with anything. God is a perfect Judge.

That you can just do whatever you want and as long as you believe you’ll be saved.

This is more insanity. Neither of us believe this garbage. No one is saved by "believing they are saved". That's delirious.

People are saved, and given eternal life on the basis of believing in the Lord Jesus Christ for salvation. Got it? And those who believe POSSESS eternal life (John 5;24, 6:47, 1 Jn 5:11, 13) and those given eternal life, on the basis of faith in Christ, SHALL NEVER PERISH. John 10:28

See? I have verses that actually say what I believe. Unlike yourself.

Being born again and becoming a new creation doesn’t mean changing your way of life it just means going from not believing to believing.

To begin with, yes, that's true. However, being born again means to be a new creation. And with that new creation, the believer is able to live the supernatural Christian way of life, by the power of the Holy Spirit. Any of this sound familiar, or am I again on unfamiliar territory with you?

You don’t need to do anything good or love others. You don’t need to honor God’s commandments. You can be a serial killer rapist and just go around lobbing off the heads of Christians, you can lie, cheat, and steal, worship satan or be an idolater and if you believe your still going to be saved.

All of this blabber suggests that you don't believe that Jesus Christ died for all sins. Well, He did. However, God blesses and rewards His children who obey Him and are faithful. And those who aren't, lose reward and face His discipline, which is painful, according to Heb 12:11.

Were you aware of any of this?

All you must do is believe and BAM your saved.

So, basically, you think Paul was misguided, or wrong when he answered the jailer's question of: "what must I do to be saved?" and he said; "believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved".

I suggest that you don't know the Bible at all.

They paint this nice warm and fuzzy picture of a humungously wide gate to heaven in that couldn’t possibly get any wider unless absolutely nothing is required of us to enter heaven. This idea is never taught by any of the early churches. These guys believe that Jesus’ church has either disappeared from existence without a trace with the death of the apostles or has remained silent and hidden for over 15 centuries bearing no fruit at all and being a light to no one. That somehow the gates of hell have managed to silence the Church of God having the ability to prevail over it and that God has either allowed this to happen or is powerless to stop it. This means that the Holy Spirit must’ve taken a very very long vacation from His duties having no regard at all for the trillions of people who lived between the time of the apostles and the Protestant reformation. I am utterly in total disbelief of how anyone can come to these conclusions thru the study of word of God. It truly baffles me.

You couldn't be more wrong in your opinions.

 

[Gr8Grace]

or am I again on unfamiliar territory with you?

It seems very obvious that you are on unfamiliar territory with him.

I am afraid that there are going to be many believers, that worked their tails off their entire lives.....that will enter the kingdom naked and empty handed because they had no idea about fellowship and abiding in Him.

And to our shame if we see the answer for it and reject it.

1 John 2:28~~New American Standard Bible
Now, little children, abide in Him, so that when He appears, we may have confidence and not shrink away from Him in shame at His coming.

 

[Gr8Grace]

I like your honest recap, BTW.

Satan is "the ruler of this world" (John 12:31, etc.),
Satan is "the god of this world" (2 Corinthians 4:4).
Satan "deceives the whole world" (Revel. 12:9).
Satan is "the father of lies!" (John 8:44).

Hence, it is not too difficult for Satan to deceive pastors
... and then their sheep can easily get deceived.
Believers also can get brainwashed with false doctrine through family, friends, etc.

If the deceived are ever presented with the Truth
and actually see that it is the Truth,
they may choose to stick with their deceptions
... for several possible reasons.

Honestly Mr. Zain, You both are easily deceived because you have no idea how to abide in Him. Rather than the "sin all you want" deception..........You were deceived into the holier than thou life. Satans ace trump.

By all your post's both of you think that your overt action's count.......and have no idea how to live the Spirit filled life and walk in it.

 

[FreeGrace2]

It seems very obvious that you are on unfamiliar territory with him.

I am afraid that there are going to be many believers, that worked their tails off their entire lives.....that will enter the kingdom naked and empty handed because they had no idea about fellowship and abiding in Him.

And to our shame if we see the answer for it and reject it.

1 John 2:28~~New American Standard Bible
Now, little children, abide in Him, so that when He appears, we may have confidence and not shrink away from Him in shame at His coming.

Amen!

 

[BNR32FAN]

Total nonsense. We both have been trying to show you HOW to live the Christian way of life CORRECTLY......Because ALL your post's indicate that you are trying to live as a believer through your OWN righteousness. Which is arguably worse than all the "worst case scenarios" you mention about overt sinning.
Matt 23:13~~New American Standard Bible
"But woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites, because you shut off the kingdom of heaven from people; for you do not enter in yourselves, nor do you allow those who are entering to go in.

And we have said over and over that those who continue to live in sin.......Will be disciplined, harshly if need be. Will lose reign,rank,rewards,blessing in time,blessing in eternity,crowns and end up living in MISERY...........This also goes for believers who continue to live in self righteousness and their own 'good'(menstrual rags) and have not a clue about FELLOWSHIP.

Exactly what did I say that according to your beliefs is incorrect?

 

[BNR32FAN]

This is more insanity. Neither of us believe this garbage. No one is saved by "believing they are saved". That's delirious.

People are saved, and given eternal life on the basis of believing in the Lord Jesus Christ for salvation.

You misunderstood me. I meant they are saved by believing in Jesus Christ not that they are saved by believing that they are saved.

OK, let's just stop this insanity. Neither he nor I have EVER said such a stupid thing.

Those believers who disregard what the Bible says about sin and repentance will face God's PAINFUL DISCIPLINE, per Heb 12:11. So don't kid yourself. No one will get away with anything. God is a perfect Judge

But they will still be saved tho right? They can do whatever they want so long as they believe in Jesus they will be saved. They can sin all they want and never do anything good or love others and still be saved. That’s your belief right?

 

[FreeGrace2]

You misunderstood me. I meant they are saved by believing in Jesus Christ not that they are saved by believing that they are saved.

Thanks for the clarification. However, anyone who believes in Jesus Christ for salvation is saved. Why would you think otherwise?

But they will still be saved tho right?

Of course they are. The Bible says so many times.

They can do whatever they want so long as they believe in Jesus they will be saved.

Could you at least acknowledge that those who "do whatever they want" will face serious and painful discipline from God as a result of doing so?

btw, one example of God's painful discipline is to be turned over to Satan for the "destruction of the flesh", per 1 Cor 5:5. Does that sound like a minimal hand slap?

They can sin all they want and never do anything good or love others and still be saved. That’s your belief right?

My belief is exactly what the Bible says, ok?

Jesus said those who believe have eternal life (John 5:24, 6:47), that He gives them eternal life (John 10:28a) and THEY SHALL NEVER PERISH (John 10:28b).

Why don't you believe what Jesus has said?

Don't you realize that if there were conditions for saved people to meet in order to stay saved (never perish) that Jesus would have had to include them in John 10:28?

But there are no conditions between between being given eternal life and never perishing. For a reason. There are NO conditions to meet in order to never perish.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Thanks for the clarification. However, anyone who believes in Jesus Christ for salvation is saved. Why would you think otherwise?


Of course they are. The Bible says so many times.


Could you at least acknowledge that those who "do whatever they want" will face serious and painful discipline from God as a result of doing so?

btw, one example of God's painful discipline is to be turned over to Satan for the "destruction of the flesh", per 1 Cor 5:5. Does that sound like a minimal hand slap?


My belief is exactly what the Bible says, ok?

Jesus said those who believe have eternal life (John 5:24, 6:47), that He gives them eternal life (John 10:28a) and THEY SHALL NEVER PERISH (John 10:28b).

Why don't you believe what Jesus has said?

Don't you realize that if there were conditions for saved people to meet in order to stay saved (never perish) that Jesus would have had to include them in John 10:28?

But there are no conditions between between being given eternal life and never perishing. For a reason. There are NO conditions to meet in order to never perish.

Look at the parable of the sheep & goats. Not only did the goats call Jesus Lord but look at their reaction to being condemned. They appear to be very surprised. Matthew 7:22-23 same thing. These people were expecting salvation from Jesus. Which means they did believe and yet in both cases they were not rejected for not believing but instead for their actions.

 

[Gr8Grace]

Exactly what did I say that according to your beliefs is incorrect?

It is about what you are not saying.
I agree with not sinning, works, producing fruit, "adhering to the holy Spirit", following His commands, walking in His ways.

I have asked how do you SPECIFICALLY do that? And it seems that you think this is automatic or just naturally happen's.

And not to mention, that you accused that FreeGrace and I have discarded all that the bible mentions of sin and repentance....totally and inexcusably INCORRECT. Why not apologize for that false statement? Especially after both of our responses to you after that insane accusation?

 

[Gr8Grace]

Look at the parable of the sheep & goats. Not only did the goats call Jesus Lord but look at their reaction to being condemned. They appear to be very surprised. Matthew 7:22-23 same thing. These people were expecting salvation from Jesus. Which means they did believe and yet in both cases they were not rejected for not believing but instead for their actions.

First of all, it is "on that day"......Judgement day.Everybody will call Him Lord on that day.

Second of all, How can you NOT SEE that this is what you espouse??

A good doer, 'praising' Jesus, working so hard for Him.........and He say's, " I NEVER knew you."

They trusted in working for Him and never FULLY trusted in His work for them.

“Whosoever believes in me will not perish, but have everlasting life.” Jn 3:15

“For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believes in him will not perish, but have everlasting life.” Jn 3:16

“He that believes on him is not condemned, but he that believes not is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.” Jn 3:18

“He that believes the Son has everlasting life, and he that believes not the Son, shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.” Jn 3:36

“And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one that which sees the Son, and believes on him, will have everlasting life, and I will raise him up on the last day.”Jn 6:40

“Truly I say unto you, he that believes on me, has everlasting life.” Jn 6:47

 

[FreeGrace2]

Look at the parable of the sheep & goats. Not only did the goats call Jesus Lord but look at their reaction to being condemned.

It seems you fail to appreciate the context here. This is during Judgment Day. Who is sitting on the Throne? Jesus Christ is. And the Bible says multiple times in the OT and NT that "every knee shall bow", and Judgment Day is the day that will surely happen.

So of course everyone at that Judgment will be bowing. And all will know exactly why they are bowing before Jesus. He will be the reigning King. There will be no argument.

They appear to be very surprised. Matthew 7:22-23 same thing.

Sure. For the same reason. Both groups think they have earned salvation by what they've done. That's why both groups will be surprised.

These people were expecting salvation from Jesus.

Not because any of them believed in Him for salvation. Just read the basis for their expected salvation; works.

Which means they did believe and yet in both cases they were not rejected for not believing but instead for their actions.

You are in error. In the Matt 7 context, Jesus clearly told the crowd, "I never knew you".

Do you honestly believe that He would say that about anyone who ever did believe in Him? He wouldn't have been able to say that. Think about that.

 

[BNR32FAN]

It is about what you are not saying.
I agree with not sinning, works, producing fruit, "adhering to the holy Spirit", following His commands, walking in His ways.

I have asked how do you SPECIFICALLY do that? And it seems that you think this is automatic or just naturally happen's.

And not to mention, that you accused that FreeGrace and I have discarded all that the bible mentions of sin and repentance....totally and inexcusably INCORRECT. Why not apologize for that false statement? Especially after both of our responses to you after that insane accusation?

These are just a few of many examples of sinners who will not receive salvation. Notice that these verses apply to everyone and there is no indication that believers are excluded.

When you follow the desires of your sinful nature, the results are very clear: sexual immorality, impurity, lustful pleasures, idolatry, sorcery, hostility, quarreling, jealousy, outbursts of anger, selfish ambition, dissension, division, envy, drunkenness, wild parties, and other sins like these. Let me tell you again, as I have before, that anyone living that sort of life will not inherit the Kingdom of God.


Galatians 5:19-21


Even now the ax of God’s judgment is poised, ready to sever the roots of the trees. Yes, every tree that does not produce good fruit will be chopped down and thrown into the fire.


Matthew 3:10


Nothing evil will be allowed to enter, nor anyone who practices shameful idolatry and dishonesty—but only those whose names are written in the Lamb’s Book of Life.


Revelation 21:27


Let there be no sexual immorality, impurity, or greed among you. Such sins have no place among God’s people. Obscene stories, foolish talk, and coarse jokes—these are not for you. Instead, let there be thankfulness to God. You can be sure that no immoral, impure, or greedy person will inherit the Kingdom of Christ and of God. For a greedy person is an idolater, worshiping the things of this world. Don’t be fooled by those who try to excuse these sins, for the anger of God will fall on all who disobey him.


Ephesians 5:3-6

This is what I’m referring to when I say you disregard what the Bible says about sin.

 

[BNR32FAN]

First of all, it is "on that day"......Judgement day.Everybody will call Him Lord on that day.

Second of all, How can you NOT SEE that this is what you espouse??

A good doer, 'praising' Jesus, working so hard for Him.........and He say's, " I NEVER knew you."

They trusted in working for Him and never FULLY trusted in His work for them.

“Whosoever believes in me will not perish, but have everlasting life.” Jn 3:15

“For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believes in him will not perish, but have everlasting life.” Jn 3:16

“He that believes on him is not condemned, but he that believes not is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.” Jn 3:18

“He that believes the Son has everlasting life, and he that believes not the Son, shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.” Jn 3:36

“And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one that which sees the Son, and believes on him, will have everlasting life, and I will raise him up on the last day.”Jn 6:40

“Truly I say unto you, he that believes on me, has everlasting life.” Jn 6:47

Jesus says exactly why they were condemned. He never said anything about them not believing. He said

“But I will reply, ‘I never knew you. Get away from me, you who break God’s laws.’ “Anyone who listens to my teaching and follows it is wise, like a person who builds a house on solid rock. Though the rain comes in torrents and the floodwaters rise and the winds beat against that house, it won’t collapse because it is built on bedrock. But anyone who hears my teaching and doesn’t obey it is foolish, like a person who builds a house on sand. When the rains and floods come and the winds beat against that house, it will collapse with a mighty crash.””
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭7:23-27‬

Jesus says nothing about them not believe. They were condemned for not obeying.


““Then the King will turn to those on the left and say, ‘Away with you, you cursed ones, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his demons. For I was hungry, and you didn’t feed me. I was thirsty, and you didn’t give me a drink. I was a stranger, and you didn’t invite me into your home. I was naked, and you didn’t give me clothing. I was sick and in prison, and you didn’t visit me.’ “Then they will reply, ‘Lord, when did we ever see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and not help you?’ “And he will answer, ‘I tell you the truth, when you refused to help the least of these my brothers and sisters, you were refusing to help me.’ “And they will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous will go into eternal life.””
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭25:41-46‬

Again Jesus said nothing about not believing. And again they are condemned for not obeying. They didn’t produce fruit and have love for others. You are making the assumption that these people didn’t believe but there is no evidence at all to support this and the answer is plainly written for you to see but you disregard it like I said.

 

[Gr8Grace]

They didn’t produce fruit and have love for others.

It's amazing, yet I know why, that you won't address any of our points.

Your not producing fruit. Your not filled with the Spirit. Your not walking in the Spirit.

If I am wrong, tell me SPECIFICALLY, EXACTLY how you know you are filled and walking in the Spirit.

Having love for other's is synonymous with being filled with the Spirit and walking in the Spirit.

How are you filled with the Spirit and thus walk by means of the Spirit?

 

[BNR32FAN]

It's amazing, yet I know why, that you won't address any of our points.

Your not producing fruit. Your not filled with the Spirit. Your not walking in the Spirit.

If I am wrong, tell me SPECIFICALLY, EXACTLY how you know you are filled and walking in the Spirit.

Having love for other's is synonymous with being filled with the Spirit and walking in the Spirit.

How are you filled with the Spirit and thus walk by means of the Spirit?

No let’s not change the subject this time. Did Jesus give an exact explination of why He condemned these people?

 

[BNR32FAN]

It's amazing, yet I know why, that you won't address any of our points.

Your not producing fruit. Your not filled with the Spirit. Your not walking in the Spirit.

If I am wrong, tell me SPECIFICALLY, EXACTLY how you know you are filled and walking in the Spirit.

Having love for other's is synonymous with being filled with the Spirit and walking in the Spirit.

How are you filled with the Spirit and thus walk by means of the Spirit?

Are believers exempt from the verses I quoted? If so how does the word anyone exclude believers?

 

[Gr8Grace]

No let’s not change the subject this time. Did Jesus give an exact explination of why He condemned these people?

Me changing the subject? You have NEVER answered on the subject at hand.......How do we walk by means of the Spirit and be filled with the Spirit?

If you don't know this.........you are not producing fruit or works through the Spirit. They are useless,worthless, DEAD works.

Why does this not concern you?

And Yes, The Lord Jesus Christ gave a PERFECT example of why He condemned these people.

They sat in a 'Jesus' pew, worked their tails off for Him, did it in His name, even praised His name......they even did miracles in His name BNR32FAN. And The Lord Jesus Christ said,"I NEVER knew you."........They relied on their SELF RIGHTEOUS works and not His perfectly righteous works for them.

“Whosoever believes in me will not perish, but have everlasting life.” Jn 3:15

“For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believes in him will not perish, but have everlasting life.” Jn 3:16

“He that believes on him is not condemned, but he that believes not is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.” Jn 3:18

“He that believes the Son has everlasting life, and he that believes not the Son, shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.” Jn 3:36

“And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one that which sees the Son, and believes on him, will have everlasting life, and I will raise him up on the last day.”Jn 6:40

“Truly I say unto you, he that believes on me, has everlasting life.” Jn 6:47

 

[BNR32FAN]

Me changing the subject? You have NEVER answered on the subject at hand.......How do we walk by means of the Spirit and be filled with the Spirit?

If you don't know this.........you are not producing fruit or works through the Spirit. They are useless,worthless, DEAD works.

Why does this not concern you?

And Yes, The Lord Jesus Christ gave a PERFECT example of why He condemned these people.

They sat in a 'Jesus' pew, worked their tails off for Him, did it in His name, even praised His name......they even did miracles in His name BNR32FAN. And The Lord Jesus Christ said,"I NEVER knew you."........They relied on their SELF RIGHTEOUS works and not His perfectly righteous works for them.

“Whosoever believes in me will not perish, but have everlasting life.” Jn 3:15

“For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believes in him will not perish, but have everlasting life.” Jn 3:16

“He that believes on him is not condemned, but he that believes not is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.” Jn 3:18

“He that believes the Son has everlasting life, and he that believes not the Son, shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.” Jn 3:36

“And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one that which sees the Son, and believes on him, will have everlasting life, and I will raise him up on the last day.”Jn 6:40

“Truly I say unto you, he that believes on me, has everlasting life.” Jn 6:47

If you don't know this.........you are not producing fruit or works through the Spirit. They are useless,worthless, DEAD works. And as James says,

Where exactly does James mention dead works? He said faith without works is dead. I’m not aware of him saying works are dead and useless. By the way I did answer your question twice yesterday.

The people your referring to were condemned because of their disobedience as I showed you they did not follow His teachings and they broke God’s laws. Stop adding to what the scriptures say with your assumptions about these people that you know nothing about. This group broke God’s laws and the goats in chapter 25 didn’t do good works. Nowhere does it say these people did not believe. However it does specify say one group was condemned for breaking God’s laws and the other for not doing good works.

 

[BCsenior]

Look at the parable of the sheep & goats. Not only did the goats call Jesus Lord but look at their reaction to being condemned. They appear to be very surprised.
Matthew 7:22-23 same thing. These people were expecting salvation from Jesus. Which means they did believe and yet in both cases they were not rejected for not believing but instead for their actions.

Let's make it clear:

In Matthew 7:21-23, these believers were rejected because they did NOT do God's will (Mt. 7:21).
Now, of course, we have to understand what God's will is.
One of many is:
"Those who love Me will obey My commandments."
And we are commanded to love God with all of our hearts, souls, and minds!

In Matthew 7:21-23, these believers were also rejected because they practiced lawlessness (broke God's laws) (Mt. 7:23) ... Also in the same verse,
Jesus said that He never knew (approved of *) them!
* according to W. E. Vine