Do you think Christians sin? If so, what common unconfessed sins do you think Jesus forgives?

JohnB445

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This is a common straw man.

Nobody is preaching cheap grace, and to live lawlessly without a care.

We have been saved by grace through faith. What now? We pick up our cross and walk. If you want to talk about people who simply profess and go on with their day without a care then thats a different story.

And don't put words in my mouth
 
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This is the equivalent of claiming that Christ's blood has no power over sin...

Your quote of my words is rough quote of Titus 2:11-12. It says God’s grace teaches us to deny ungodliness and that we should live righteously. Are you saying you disagree with Titus 2:11-12?

As for your vague statement:

God’s grace has power to forgive past sin.
God’s grace can help us to overcome sin.

But God’s grace does not forgive future sin.
It doesn’t work like that.
We are told to confess sin in order to be forgiven of sin (1 John 1:9).
 
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This is a common straw man.

Nobody is preaching cheap grace, and to live lawlessly without a care.

We have been saved by grace through faith. What now? We pick up our cross and walk. If you want to talk about people who simply profess and go on with their day without a care then thats a different story.

And don't put words in my mouth

Alright. Let’s test your belief to see if it is moral and good.

Do you believe King David was saved while he committed his sins of adultery and murder?
 
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But God’s grace does not forgive future sin.

I think we're at an impasse here. To be "in Christ" that is, baptized into Christ, is to put on Christ. For the mortal to put on immortality. 1 Corinthians 15:54. We don't put Christ on and take him off everytime we transgress the law. We are born of imperishable seed. 1 Peter 1:23. We are not born, then unborn, then born again, ect. Man is appointed to die once, likewise, he is appointed to be born-again once. If God expected us to conform perfectly to his law then this reduces the magnitude of Christ's atoning sacrifice. I believe God knows we are imperfect creatures and always will be here. I believe Christ's blood does indeed cover future sin for these reasons.
 
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Acts of the Apostles 15:10-11
10 Now therefore, why do you test God by putting a yoke on the neck of the disciples which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?
11 But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved in the same manner as they."
 
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FutureAndAHope

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If sin can drag you down, and make you drown (implying spiritual death) then it is not by the OSAS version of God's grace. You have to do something to remove sin from your life so you don't drown. This is why the OSAS message that you are saying here is preaching a double message. On the one hand you say that it is solely by God's grace and yet you contradict yourself and say that you must remove sin otherwise that person can drown.

For a start I nowhere stated that I believe in OSAS. I don't believe that. A person can certainly lose their salvation if they persist in rebellious sin. But where I believe you are wrong, is you are trying to justify your self by your works. Correct me if I am wrong, but, If you even had the tiniest, minutest sin, you would say you were not saved. You are trying to purge yourself, of every fault to gain faultlessness before God. The problem with that thinking is that you will be living your life in fear, scared to move almost, unless you sin against God,

Heb 2:14-15 Since therefore the children share in flesh and blood, he himself likewise partook of the same things, that through death he might destroy the one who has the power of death, that is, the devil, and deliver all those who through fear of death were subject to lifelong slavery.

But what is true salvation, it is here summed up:

Gal 5:3-5 I testify again to every man who accepts circumcision that he is obligated to keep the whole law. You are severed from Christ, you who would be justified by the law; you have fallen away from grace. For through the Spirit, by faith, we ourselves eagerly wait for the hope of righteousness.

It is not our keeping the law that saves us, it is our abiding in the Holy Spirit. When a person is saved they receive God's Holy Spirit, the Holy Spirit works on our desires, making us desire Holy living. We are not as you say justified by our deeds. Rather the Holy Spirit motivates us to good works. He will motivate us to keep His law, for the law is from God. But it is not the law itself that saves us.

After rebuking those who tried to justify people by the law, Paul says:

Gal 5:13-14 For you were called to freedom, brothers. Only do not use your freedom as an opportunity for the flesh, but through love serve one another. For the whole law is fulfilled in one word: “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.”

Note Paul says we have freedom, but we are not to use it for opportunity for the flesh. The fact is the one who has the Holy Spirit will avoid the flesh.

1John 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

The bible will certainly say we are not to sin, for as you see in 1 John 3:9 the one who is born of God does not seek to sin.

But it is impossible to be justified by the law for the law can not be 100% kept. Otherwise why would God say:

Gal 2:21 I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness were through the law, then Christ died for no purpose.

My version of grace is not a licence to sin, rather it is freedom to not live in fear of our human weakness, whilst growing in obedience to God, and the Holy Spirit, leading us unto obedience where we stumble.

There is a battle between the flesh and the spirit, and the answer to victory lies in seeking God, daily in relationship and prayer.

Mat 26:41 Watch and pray that you may not enter into temptation. The spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak.”

The one who neglects to seek God, is in danger of losing salvation, via being overcome by the flesh, and returning ultimately and finally to the old life.
 
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This is talking about the general atonement made for all of mankind.
Unless you believe in Universal Salvationism, the atonement is applied when we have true faith. True faith starts off in believing and or receiving Jesus as one's Savior (whereby the atonement is applied). But after coming to Jesus by faith, we have to continue in His Word, continue in his love, continue in the faith of obeying Jesus in order for the atonement to continue to be applied to our life. Works of faith are just evidence that a person's faith is true or genuine. James says he will show you his faith by his works (James 2:18). The author of Hebrews says that without holiness, no man shall see the Lord (Hebrews 12:14). Paul says that a person can deny God by a lack of works (Titus 1:16). So one has to have the right kind of faith in order for the atonement to be applied.

How can we prove it?

Hebrews 5:9 says,
"And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;"

1 John 1:7 says,
"But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanses us from all sin."



Poor word choice on my part. I agree. The blood of Christ takes away sin. But there is a cleansing going at some point for 1 John 1:7 says if we walk in the light as He is in the light, the blood of Jesus cleanses us from all sin. Meaning, if we love our brother (we abide in the light - See 1 John 2:9-10) (Note: Paul says to love our neighbor is the equivalent of keeping the Moral Law like: Do not murder, do not steal, and do not covet, etc. - See Romans 13:8-10).



In Hebrews 10:4, we learn that the blood of goats and bulls never took away sin. They only temporarily atoned or covered sin because they had to keep revisiting the same PAST sins year after year. But when Jesus came and died for us (giving us the perfect sacrifice) He is able to provide a way that is more perfect in the fact that all our PAST sins are forgiven for good. They are remembered no more.

But if you were to keep reading, this does not include willfully sinning again after receiving the knowledge of the truth.

For Hebrews 10:26 says,
"For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,"

So again, a person needs a true faith in order to access the saving grace of God and willfully sinning after receiving the truth is not true faith because there remains no more sacrifice for sin if we willfully sin again.



This is merely a matter of deflection away from the problem of Eternal Security.
The problem is that when an Eternal Security Proponent says that King David was saved while he committed his sins of murder and adultery, they are telling other people that they can be like a David and do these kinds of sins and be saved, too. For if David did it, then they surely can do that, too.



You missed the second half of the verse. It says that you may receive MERCY and FIND GRACE to help us in our time of need. IF mercy and grace was already in our possession there would be no need to approach God's throne and seek out our Heavenly high priest who is Jesus Christ.

"And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:" (1 John 2:1).

"If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness." (1 John 1:9)

This is in view that a person is to "sin not" (1 John 2:1) and to walk in the light so as to be cleansed of all sin by the blood of Jesus (1 John 1:7).

For he that confesses and forsakes sin shall have mercy (Proverbs 28:13).

Jesus said that the Ninevites will rise up in judgment against this generation because they repented at the preaching of Jonah (Matthew 12:41). If you were to turn to Jonah 3:6-10, you would learn that the King of the Ninevites told his people to do two very important things.

(a) Cry out to God (repentance).
(b) Forsake their evil ways (i.e. the fruits of repentance).​

Now, when God had seen that they turned from their wicked ways, THAT was the point where God decided not to bring wrath and destroy them anymore and not before. So yeah. The whole "trust in the finished work of Christ alone" for salvation is not something even remotely taught in the Bible. James says we are justified by works and not by faith alone (James 2:24). For works of faith are merely the proof in the pudding that one's faith in Christ is true.

We will just have to agree to disagree. God Bless.
 
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No, and neither do I believe a professing Christian that gets an abortion was saved to begin with.

Or those who never changed and have God pushed to the side for rare occasions.

So David lost his salvation when he committed his sins of adultery and murder and it was restored back to him when he confessed?
 
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For a start I nowhere stated that I believe in OSAS. I don't believe that.

I also said "Belief Alone version of God's grace" in post #238, too. While you do not believe the following belief I am about to describe, I am 100% fully aware of the Non-OSAS belief alone type Christians (not you) who believe they can sin on some level and still be saved. These types do not believe that sin can cause a separation between them and God, but it is by choosing to stop believing in Christ that a person can fall away. Granted, you are claiming not to believe that. But I have a test question for you.

Do you believe King David was saved while he was committing his sins of adultery and murder?

A person can certainly lose their salvation if they persist in rebellious sin.

It doesn't take lots of sin to lose one's salvation. It only takes on grievous sin to lose one's salvation.

Adam and Eve (Genesis 2:17) (Genesis 3:4-7).
Ananias and Sapphira (Acts of the Apostles 5:1-11).
Simon (Acts of the Apostles 8:22).
Hymenaeus and Philetus (2 Timothy 2:17-18).

Numbers 35:16-18 says that if one murders one time, they are considered a murderer. 1 John 3:15 says that no murderer has eternal life abiding in them.

Leviticus 20:10 says that it only takes one act of adultery to be an adulterer. Proverbs 6:32 says that he that commits adultery destroys his own soul.

But where I believe you are wrong, is you are trying to justify your self by your works.

You are also trying to justify yourself by your works because you say that a person can persist in sin and lose their salvation and nullify the grace of God. Sin is merely transgression of the Law (1 John 3:4). So you believe that you must keep God's Law on some level to be saved as a part of God's grace.

In fact, James says,

"You see then how that by works a man is justified,
and not by faith only."
(James 2:24) (KJV).

"You see that a person is justified by works
and not by faith alone."
(James 2:24) (ESV).

Strange, how the only place where the Bible says "faith alone" it is talking about how we are not justified by faith alone.

Why? Because works of faith are a by-product of a true and genuine faith.
You can no more have a true faith without works of faith (not works of the Law of Moses) than for rain not to be wet.

James says in James 2:18 that he will show you his faith by his works.
James says faith without works is dead.
Hebrews 12:14 says without holiness, no man shall see the Lord.
If a person does something really bad one time like say "murder" and yet they lived holy up until that point, are they still holy? No. Unless they repent and get their heart right with God, their sin of murder is going to keep them separated from God.

You said:
Correct me if I am wrong, but, If you even had the tiniest, minutest sin, you would say you were not saved. You are trying to purge yourself, of every fault to gain faultlessness before God. The problem with that thinking is that you will be living your life in fear, scared to move almost, unless you sin against God,

Not all sin is the same.

Jesus said there is a greater sin (John 19:11). 1 John 5:16-17 says there is a sin unto death and a sin not unto death. Jesus said to the Pharisees that they ignored the WEIGHTIER matters of the Law like: Love, justice, faith, and mercy (See Luke 11:42, and Matthew 23:23). Peter says in 1 Peter 3:21 that baptism is not for salvation. Yet, it is a command as a part of the great commission (Matthew 28:19). But Paul says that Christ did not send him to baptize but to preach the gospel (1 Corinthians 1:17). Psalms 19:12 talks about secret or hidden faults. Matthew 12:31-32 says that speaking bad words against the Holy Ghost can never be forgiven and speaking bad words against the Son (Jesus) can be forgiven. The sin of worshiping the beast in the future is so bad to GOD that their names are not even written in the book of life since the foundation of the world (See Revelation 13:8, and Revelation 17:8). Even life teaches us that not all sin is the same. For do you consider the breaking of the Law of going over the speed limit by 5 miles per hour (in driving a motor vehicle) as the same as the crime as murder? Surely not.

So what about James 2:10?

Well, this is the only verse that suggests (at first glance with a quick reading) that all sin is the same, and a reader who does use this verse to support this view has to do at the expense of ignoring so many other verses in the Bible.

James here is not talking about ceremonial laws in the New Covenant like baptism, the Lord's supper, etc. James is talking about the "Royal Law" (i.e. to love your neighbor) (James 2:8).

Anyways, the Bible describes certain sins that clearly lead to spiritual death (See Matthew 5:28-30, Matthew 6:15, Matthew 12:37, Matthew 25:31-46, Luke 9:62, 1 Corinthians 6:9-10, Galatians 5:19-21, 1 John 3:15, Revelation 21:8).

As for the rest of what you wrote:

Well, I do not want to make my post any longer than it already is, so I will have to reply to it later.
 
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Dorothy Mae

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Jesus forgives all sin when we put our faith in him and confess.
Jesus himself there is sin that would not be forgiven so I’m. it so sure this is a done deal and all lays in our hands.
 
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Dorothy Mae

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Hope not. You don’t answer questions.
I always think it is the lowest of the low for a person to respond to a post that is not a request that they are praying. It is using the prayer icon as an insult. It’s worse than the insults atheists give and is spiritual pride at its worse. Always tells me how low that person will sink when resisting truth. I shouldn’t be surprised. Many believers in God (so they said) have murdered those who they led them Gods truth that wasn’t pleasing.
 
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Heb 2:14-15 Since therefore the children share in flesh and blood, he himself likewise partook of the same things, that through death he might destroy the one who has the power of death, that is, the devil, and deliver all those who through fear of death were subject to lifelong slavery.

Not sure why you are brought up Hebrews 2:14-15.

But what is true salvation, it is here summed up:

Gal 5:3-5 I testify again to every man who accepts circumcision that he is obligated to keep the whole law. You are severed from Christ, you who would be justified by the law; you have fallen away from grace. For through the Spirit, by faith, we ourselves eagerly wait for the hope of righteousness.

Okay. Did Jesus and His followers give us a command to be circumcised? No. Paul is talking about the Old Law and not the commands given to us by Jesus Christ. In fact, I can prove that you are justified by a law or a commandment from God. Do you believe that you have to believe on Jesus to be saved?

If so, then you are saved (justified) by keeping this commandment or Law below:

"And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ," (1 John 3:23).

Are you not justified by this work?

"This is the work of God, that you believe on him whom he has sent." (John 6:29).

It is not our keeping the law that saves us,

Paul is talking about the Law of Moses and he was fighting against "Law Alone Salvationism or Works Alone Salvationism" (that did not include God's grace) in Ephesians 2:8-9, Titus 3:5, Galatians 3, Romans 3, Romans 4, etc.

You said:
it is our abiding in the Holy Spirit. When a person is saved they receive God's Holy Spirit, the Holy Spirit works on our desires, making us desire Holy living.We are not as you say justified by our deeds. Rather the Holy Spirit motivates us to good works. He will motivate us to keep His law, for the law is from God. But it is not the law itself that saves us.

We are not under the Law of Moses. We are under the commands given to us by Jesus and His followers. Two different sets of laws here.

Oh, and 2 Thessalonians 2:13 says that God has chosen us to salvation through two things.

(a) Belief of the truth (i.e. Jesus - John 14:6).
(b) Sanctification of the Spirit (Holy living - see the immediate or nearby context).

After rebuking those who tried to justify people by the law, Paul says:

Gal 5:13-14 For you were called to freedom, brothers. Only do not use your freedom as an opportunity for the flesh, but through love serve one another. For the whole law is fulfilled in one word: “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” Note Paul says we have freedom, but we are not to use it for opportunity for the flesh. The fact is the one who has the Holy Spirit will avoid the flesh.

We have a freedom from the ordinances like the Sabbath, circumcision, the dietary laws (See Colossians 2:14-17, and Romans 14). Paul lists in Galatians 5:19-21 that these works of the flesh are grievous sins (like murder, adultery, drunkenness, etc.) and those who do such things will not inherit the Kingdom of God.

1John 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

The bible will certainly say we are not to sin, for as you see in 1 John 3:9 the one who is born of God does not seek to sin.

No. That is not what 1 John 3:9 is saying. The key to understanding 1 John 3:9 is looking at 1 John 3:6. The person who abides in Christ cannot sin. Meaning while a person is abiding in Christ and while they are abiding in the born again state, they cannot sin. But if we choose to sin, we are walking away from Christ and choosing to side with the devil. For he that commits sin is of the devil (1 John 3:8).

But it is impossible to be justified by the law for the law can not be 100% kept. Otherwise why would God say:

Gal 2:21 I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness were through the law, then Christ died for no purpose.

Again, Paul is talking about the Old Law because in Galatians 2:3 he talks about the problem of circumcision among them.

It's why Paul says in Galatians 5:2 that if you seek to be circumcised, Christ will profit you nothing.

Again, we learn at the Jerusalem counsel that they were fighting against the heresy of "Circumcision Salvationism."

  1. Acts of the Apostles 15:1 says, “And certain men which came down from Judaea taught the brethren, and said, Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved.”
  2. Acts of the Apostles 15:5 says, But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.”
  3. Acts of the Apostles 15:24 says, “Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:”

You said:
My version of grace is not a licence to sin, rather it is freedom to not live in fear of our human weakness, whilst growing in obedience to God, and the Holy Spirit, leading us unto obedience where we stumble.

Do you believe future sin is forgiven a believer and do you teach that?

There is a battle between the flesh and the spirit, and the answer to victory lies in seeking God, daily in relationship and prayer.

Mat 26:41 Watch and pray that you may not enter into temptation. The spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak.”

The one who neglects to seek God, is in danger of losing salvation, via being overcome by the flesh, and returning ultimately and finally to the old life.

The lukewarm believing church was spewed out of the Lord's mouth because they lost their first love. They were told to repent and do the first works. They were not told to just believe on Jesus's sacrifice and they are all good to go. Again, it seems like you believe in a contradiction. You say on the one hand that you are saved by God's grace and not of works and yet you contradict yourself and say that is how you are saved because you say that sin can separate a believer from God. Sin is merely the breaking of God's laws. So you believe in keeping God's laws as a part of salvation.
 
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I think we're at an impasse here. To be "in Christ" that is, baptized into Christ, is to put on Christ. For the mortal to put on immortality. 1 Corinthians 15:54. We don't put Christ on and take him off everytime we transgress the law. We are born of imperishable seed. 1 Peter 1:23. We are not born, then unborn, then born again, ect. Man is appointed to die once, likewise, he is appointed to be born-again once. If God expected us to conform perfectly to his law then this reduces the magnitude of Christ's atoning sacrifice. I believe God knows we are imperfect creatures and always will be here. I believe Christ's blood does indeed cover future sin for these reasons.

If future sin is forgiven you, then it's a license to sin.
 
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A man is judged when he dies, not before.

"He that believes on him is not condemned: but he that believes not is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God." (John 3:18).

"But she that liveth in pleasure is dead while she liveth." (1 Timothy 5:6).
 
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Dorothy Mae

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I'm not your enemy, but I see that you are not on my side, making yourself my enemy....and I didn't commit a single sin against you. You are extremely deep in the Matrix, where you know not what you are doing or saying. Hardened hearts is the extreme of the emotional matrix. May you wake up as soon as possible and recognize what is taking place and the opportunities you are squandaring.
Your thinking is really off but I detect this doesn’t occur to
you. You really don’t answer questions which is a statement I made cause it’s true. That you think that makes you my enemy shows a disconnect in your thinking. That you think I think you sinned against me shows the same. Never says you did. You’re making that up.

But the worse is that you don’t believe the words and power of Jesus who set me free from the Matrix (which you refuse to define probably cause you don’t know what that is either.) Jesus set me free and can do the same for anyone who keeps his teaching.

I know you don’t believe it but it’s true. Your Matrix is more powerful than he is.
 
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Dorothy Mae

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"He that believes on him is not condemned: but he that believes not is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God." (John 3:18).

"But she that liveth in pleasure is dead while she liveth." (1 Timothy 5:6).
So atheists are already judged and condemned? Then there is no hope for anyone because the Bible even days we were sinners and by your position already condemned. Condned is final.
 
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If future sin is forgiven you, then it's a license to sin.

The vast majority of Christians shrink at the thought of abusing God's grace in any capacity though. You seem to think we all really want a license to sin for some strange reason.
 
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