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Featured Do you think Christians sin? If so, what common unconfessed sins do you think Jesus forgives?

Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by Bible Highlighter, Nov 1, 2018.

  1. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    Not sure how you don't understand this. God acts in real time. A person can be condemned in the present moment and abide in death because of their sin, but when they repent (seek forgiveness) and turn to the Lord Jesus Christ for mercy, they then will abide in life. The two verses are talking in real time. That is what those verses I showed you are saying. They are not talking about the final judgment. People can repent and accept Jesus right before they die. So sometimes it is not the entire life of a person that God will be judging. The final Judgment is whether or not they obeyed God in this life in accordance to the New Covenant. Were they faithful or not faithful. Did they believe His Word or not believe His Word. For after a person dies, then they will face the Judgment. But while they are alive they can abide in life or salvation or they can abide in death and be lost.
     
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2018
  2. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    Narrow is the way and FEW be there that finds it. It doesn't matter if the vast majority is not seeking to turn God's grace into a license for immorality. They are simply not truly thinking about the inherent problem of their own belief. When a person says that future sin is forgiven you, that is EXACTLY what a license to sin is!!! (Whether they want that or not). Why? Because when the penalty of sin is taken away there is no need to worry about sin destroying one's own soul anymore (Note: Proverbs 6:32 says you can destroy own soul by one act of adultery). So there is no necessity to live holy, or obey God, and or stress the importance of the hurtful evil of sin. Your forgiven. Go back to living life how you please and just believe on Jesus. But that is not what we see in Scripture. You have to ignore or twist Scripture to make that kind of unbiblical theology work. You do not even need to be sorry. You are forgiven by having a belief on Jesus. Well, that is if future sin is truly forgiven you. Jesus says if you will enter into life, keep the commandments (Matthew 19:17). How does that work in your belief? It is a condition. Paul says a person can deny God by a lack of works (Titus 1:16). If salvation was 100% God's grace, then a person cannot deny God by a lack of works. If salvation was all 100% God's grace, then keeping the commandments does not relate to life as Jesus said. Also in Luke 10:25-28, we learn that loving God with all our heart, mind, soul, and strength, and loving our neighbor as ourself is a part of inheriting everlasting life. Jesus says do this and you will live. Jesus did not say to just trust in his sacrifice alone and your good.

    In Matthew 7: Why do you think certain believers who did certain works were told to depart from Jesus? Was it because they did good works? No. Jesus told these believers to depart from Him because they worked iniquity (sin) (See Matthew 7:23).
     
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2018
  3. Solomon Smith

    Solomon Smith Active Member

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    Jesus said the only sin that won’t be forgiven is the blasphemy of the Holy Ghost.

    Matthew 12:31-32
     
  4. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    There are other unforgivable sins.

    1. Apostasy (Rejecting Jesus as one's Savior after having the Spirit - See Hebrews 6:4-6 and compare with Hebrews 3:12).

    2. Committing suicide and staying dead (i.e. This is self murder that a person cannot repent of). 1 John 3:15 says no murderer has eternal life abiding in them. Before the word "suicide" was invented, the term "self murder" was used.

    3. Worshiping the beast (Note: This is the kind of sin whereby a person never even had their name in the book of life since the foundation of the world - See Revelation 13:8, and Revelation 17:8).
     
  5. Solomon Smith

    Solomon Smith Active Member

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    Not according to Jesus in Matthew 12:31.
     
  6. mark kennedy

    mark kennedy Natura non facit saltum Supporter

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    The only sins not covered by the atonemet are specifically those related to departing from Christ to pursue a works righteousness (Hebrews 6:5-6, Galations 5:2-3).

    There is a long list of sins that require confession and repentance. Carmality itself is rarely seen as leading believers away from Christ and onto perdition. There was a point where the church was inundated with immorality, these people were seen as deadly dangerous in 2 Peter, Jude, Thyatira. These people don't just have petty immorality in their lives, they are consummed by the lusts of the flesh and never converted in the first place. Gnosticism was such a heresy.
     
  7. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    Jesus is not giving us an exhaustive list of unforgivable sins in Matthew 12:31 (Which is evident by the verses I provided). The word "all" does not always mean "all" in the Bible.

    John 8:2 And early in the morning he came again into the temple, and ALL the people came unto him; and he sat down, and taught them.

    2 Corinthians 3:2 "Ye are our epistle written in our hearts, known and read of ALL MEN."

    Acts of the Apostles 4:21 So when they had further threatened them, they let them go, finding nothing how they might punish them, because of the people: for ALL MEN glorified God for that which was done.
     
  8. Dorothy Mae

    Dorothy Mae Well-Known Member

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    Nonsense. I’ve never met anyone who believes in OSAS who did this. They freely insist all future subs are already forgiven before committed and commence in being abusive.
     
  9. Dorothy Mae

    Dorothy Mae Well-Known Member

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    Means that all sins, future and past, are not necessarily forgiven.
     
  10. Dorothy Mae

    Dorothy Mae Well-Known Member

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    If the pronounce judgement it is final. ...in real time. If the end is not seen yet or determined, then they are not yet judged. Real time doesn’t mean the future.
     
  11. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    What is the alternative or opposite of pursuing righteous deeds?

    Sin.

    There is no other alternative.

    So one is either saved by:

    #1. God's grace + sin (or)
    #2. God's grace + righteousness.

    Granted, it is wrong to pursue "Works ALONE Salvationism" (that does not include God's grace). This is what Paul was condemning that you have taken out of context to justify a sin and still be saved type belief.

    Jesus taught us that keeping His commandments was a part of eternal life:

    For Jesus said: "...if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments." (Matthew 19:17).

    The rich man replied: "which ones?" (Matthew 19:18).

    Jesus said: "Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself." (Matthew 19:18-19).​

    Here is another one that says the same thing in Luke 10:

    A certain lawyer stood up, tempting Jesus,
    The lawyer said: "Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?"

    Jesus said: "What is written in the law? how readest thou?"

    The lawyer said: "Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself."

    Jesus said: "Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live."
    (See Luke 10:25-28).​

    Did Jesus say these following words to the lawyer?

    "Wrong! You have to trust only in my sacrifice and not worry about sin so much."

    No, He most certainly did not! Jesus said that he answered correctly and He told Him to do this and He will live.

    As for Hebrews 6:5-6:

    Hebrews 6:5-6 mentions nothing about falling away due to keeping the commandments as a part of everlasting life. We know that this was a requirement by the Lord Jesus Christ Himself as I have shown above in Matthew 19:17 and in Luke 10:25-28.

    Hebrews 6:5-6 is dealing with those Messianic Jews who wanted to go back to the Jewish religion in order to avoid being persecuted for a while until the persecution passed whereby they would later then openly become Christians again. The context of Hebrews 6:4-6 is "departing from the living God" as mentioned in Hebrews 3:12. The context of Hebrews 3:12 was not to be deceived by the deceitfulness of sin whereby they would have a hard heart in departing from the living God.

    Also, when you read Galatians 5:2-3, it is talking about Circumcision Salvationism. If you were to actually read more carefully Galatians 5:2 it says,

    "Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing." (Galatians 5:2).

    You have to understand that certain Jews were trying to deceive Christians to be circumcised in order to be initially saved. Is circumcision something of the Old Testament Laws or the New Testament Laws? According to Genesis 17:14, it was a salvation issue not to be circumcised while under the Old Covenant. But seeing we are not under the Old Covenant, but a New Covenant (New Testament, or New Contract), circumcision is no longer a required command. In fact, these Jews (who were trying to deceive these Christians that Paul is writing to) were not even applying circumcision correctly (even according to the Old ways). They were wrongfully saying that a person had to first be circumcised to be saved when this was never the case. Under the OT: An OT saint first had to believe in God as their Savior to be saved and THEN they had to be circumcised (See Romans 4:9-12). So these Jews had the order all wrong even for the OT. But we are under a New Covenant, and circumcision is no longer a necessary requirement to the faith anymore. That was the Old Covenant. So this is why Paul says if you seek to be circumcised, Christ will profit you nothing because they were thinking they needed to FIRST be circumcised in order to be saved.

    This problem was addressed at the Jerusalem counsel.

    1. Acts of the Apostles 15:1 says, “And certain men which came down from Judaea taught the brethren, and said, Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved.”

    2. Acts of the Apostles 15:5 says, But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.”............................................................................................................................................
    3. Acts of the Apostles 15:24 says, “Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:”

    Why don't you share that list here? Anyways, grievous sin is carnality or a thing of the flesh. Hebrews 3 says that the deceitfulness of sin can harden a person's heart in departing from the living God. Please read that chapter several times in prayer.

    2 Peter 2:14 says they cannot cease from sin. When I talk to Eternal Security folk, they most times will defend the fact that they can never overcome sin in this life. Many will say they are saved if they abide in unrepentant grievous sin because they believe King David was saved while he committed his sins of adultery and murder. Do you believe King David was saved while he committed his sins aof adultery and murder?
     
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2018
  12. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    One more verse.

    "These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God." (1 John 5:13).

    So they KNOW that they have eternal life by believing on the name of the Son of God (Note: Of course this would include believing on the name of Jesus described in the Bible who told us to do many things).

    We can have an assurance of our salvation in the here and now. 1 John 2:3-4 holds the key to knowing the Lord (Who is salvation). For if we find that we are keeping His commandments, we can say that we know Him.

    For when I heard the plan of salvation according to Scripture, I knew I was lost and I needed a Savior. When I sought out forgiveness with the Lord Jesus Christ and believed in His death and resurrection on my behalf, I knew I was then saved. In fact, it was like a light had went on inside of me. I had a peace and a love like I never had before and I knew I was saved in that moment. I wanted everyone to have this. So I told many others about the Lord Jesus Christ.

    No offense sister, but if you do not honestly get it after this, I cannot help you if you cannot see something that is so clear and so plain in the Holy Scriptures.

    In any event, this does not change my love for you in Christ.
    May you have a blessed and good day in the Lord today.
     
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2018
  13. friend of

    friend of Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I was talking to Jason.

    But are you saying that OSAS camp is actively seeking opportunities to sin because they're saved either way? That's a pretty low opinion to have of your fellow Christian
     
  14. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    I cannot remember if you answered this one or not. Do you believe King David was saved while he was committing his sins of adultery and murder?

    Before you said that future sin is forgiven a person. Whether you agree or not, teaching that we are forgiven of future sin makes light of sin and tells a person that they do not need to worry about the penalty of sin anymore so the focus on living holy is downplayed. No need to worry about sin because it is paid for already. In other words, it is telling others they can sin and still be saved, which can lead people (maybe at this point in time, not you exactly) to turn God's grace into a license for immorality.

    For a child could easily think you are saying that they can sin and still be saved. I wouldn't want to be responsible for leading a child into sin by making them think the wrong way about sin and salvation. Remember the penalty that Jesus said about leading a child into sin?

    The reality is that many people have turned God's grace into a license for sin because they believed future sin is forgiven them. George Sodini and even children have committed suicide because they believed this lie.
     
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2018
  15. Solomon Smith

    Solomon Smith Active Member

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    I’m frozen in suspense.:pray:
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2018
  16. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    I had problems before uploading images to Christian Forums.

    Let me help you. The solution is to:

    #1. Go to Christian Forums main page.
    #2. Click on the Media button.
    #3. Click on the Add Media button.
    #4. Choose from drop down box to "Create Album" and name it.
    #5. Click upload image.
    #6. Click the Save button.
    #7. Select the Image to View it in your Media Gallery.
    #8. Right Click on the Image you want to use.
    #9. Select the Option called "Copy Image Address."
    #10. Go back to the thread you want to a post a picture at.
    #11. Select the picture icon (Next to the video icon).
    #12. Paste the image link in the pop up window and voila!

    I hope that helps;
    And may God bless you.
     
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2018
  17. RDKirk

    RDKirk Alien, Pilgrim, and Sojourner Supporter

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    It also says that when Herod was told by the astrologers from the east of the birth of a new king that he was upset and "all Jerusalem" was upset with him.

    But then, there were at least Anna and Simeon in Jerusalem who greeted the news with joy.
     
  18. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    Indeed.

    As for the wisemen being astrologers:

    I don't buy that story.

    Here a couple of articles to consider:

    Were the Wise Men Astrologists?

    Were the Magi Pagan Astrologers (Matthew 2:1-12)?

    Note: I do not agree with all views expressed by these websites; I only agree with these particular articles.
     
  19. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    [​IMG]
     
  20. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    [​IMG]
     
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