Is Freemasonry really Satanic?

[Albion]

Conversely, I am struck by the total unreality of what sworn initiates think it's about.
Being committed to churchianity is not the same as being committed to Christianity, but often passes for such.

Man, are you mistaken about that! Was it just some sort of wild guess?

 

[Rick Otto]

QUOTE="Albion; I am surprised to read this, Rick, because it is undeniable that Masons who are members here of CF have answered question after question, and point after point, with plenty of specifics.

You completely ignore question after question and specific after specific.
And the ones you do bother with deflect from the theory, not addressing it.

Then they are usually told by the other party something like Masons are required to lie, or that they don't know what they are doing (although the non-Masons who have never experience any of it are experts for some reason that's never made entirely clear).

What you consistently refuse to include and address is compartmentalization, and that has been repeatedly made abundantly clear . Your allegations are as far from the truth as they possibly could be.

Engaging the Masons in a discussion or give-and-take is actually rare.

Look to yourselves for the blame. We're not hiding anything, Masons are.

...or is presented on a scary-looking website or printed in a book by some unknown author?

Oh, that's cute. As cute as the ritual costume gear you guys wear. I saw some employee in a hardware store wearing a gaudy mason symbol like an amulet, he had pins & rings... he obviously had his identity wrapped up tight in this.

 

[Rick Otto]

Man, are you mistaken about that! Was it just some sort of wild guess?

Sir, it is you who are mistaken and it was the entirety of your voluminous denials that is wild, but thanks for your experienced opinion.

 

[Albion]

You completely ignore question after question and specific after specific.
And the ones you do bother with deflect from the theory, not addressing it.

I don't think this is true. Try me.

Oh, that's cute. As cute as the ritual costume gear you guys wear.

he had pins & rings

A lapel pin or two and a ring. Is that why Masonry is to be avoided???

Since there isn't a particular costume and nothing very stunning in any case, I would like to have a real description from you as to what you are picturing in your mind's eye.

 

[lasthero]

I don't think this is true. Try me.

For what it's worth, I agree. I disagree with you on a great many things, I suspect, but you seem very forthcoming and honest on this subject.

I'm not a Mason, but my uncle was, and my father (a pastor) never had any problem with him. So far as I'm aware, he was a proud, avid Christian right up until the day he died.

 

[Rubricnigel]

"All the?" Whom do you have in mind there? And what did they say that shows Masonry to be "satanic to the core?"

There are about 3,000,000 Masons in the USA alone, so I assume that there are quite a number of these people you are referring to--the "all the" people.

Just because most of the 3million you quote only rise to the 3rd rank to be called master masons, who pay dues and go to the dinner parties, doesnt mean that high ranked ones who run it all, arent satanic.

You do realize the majority dont know what its about? The gnostic parts, the anti Christian parts.

Id post youtube links of past masons exposing it to be satanic, but youd just deny it.
You seem to be a mason, if your not satanic thats GREAT, but you ARE a member of an organization that IS satanic, you help it financially, and defend it. So in my book, and most that makes you culpable.

If anyone wants to see video after video, a simple youtube search will return a trove of data. Also albert pikes book can be bought at amazon, or read online for free. Alot of websites show you the quotes about it being satanic, and how free masonry is a group that meddles in politics and power at the highest level.

Its all out there. Or you can listen to a free mason who's taken an oath to NEVER tell you wahts going on. They deny everything because they took an oath, an oath that says they should be killed if they reveal anything (im not certain if any have been killed, but its their oath so)

 

[Albion]

Just because most of the 3million you quote only rise to the 3rd rank to be called master masons, who pay dues and go to the dinner parties, doesnt mean that high ranked ones who run it all, arent satanic.

It doesn't prove that they do, either...or that they even exist.

You do realize the majority dont know what its about? The gnostic parts, the anti Christian parts.

Be specific and I will be able to answer you.

Id post youtube links of past masons exposing it to be satanic, but youd just deny it.

Try me before concluding that.

Its all out there.

All of this seems to add up to...you've heard some things. Well, we all have.

The number of conspiracy theories dealing with everything from George Bush blew up the Twin Towers to the Moon Landing was staged in Hollywood to who-knows-what are so many...that Christian Forums even provided a special forum so devotees could talk about their favorites.

 

[circuitrider]

It's not about knowing what else an oath swearing initiate is gullible about.

You must not have met many Masons. Gullible? I studied the fraternity for almost a decade before I joined. I read all of the Masonic material (and anti-masonic material) I could get my hands on

I'm am an ordained United Methodist minister (Elder in Full Connection) with an undergrad degree in Biblical Studies, just short of a minor in New Testament Greek, and a Master of Divinity from an accredited seminary, as well as nearly 30 years pastoring churches. I taught for several years in the religious studies department of one of our UMC related colleges. Suffice it to say I know my Christian doctrine and I know the teachings of Freemasonry.

What anti-Masons can't grasp is that quite a large number of Masons are highly educated Christian leaders who have researched the fraternity and found nothing to object to. And, in fact many Christian clergy have found Freemasonry to be valuable and worthy of participating in.

But, you couldn't accept that because you'd have to stop believing your silly pet conspiracy theory about a secret evil society.

 

[Rick Otto]

QUOTE="circuitrider; You must not have met many Masons.

First of all, you're guessing.
Secondly, it has nothing to do with the topic at hand, which is only a conspiracy theory. Stay calm.
So now I get to guess something about you & what you know? lol

Gullible?

Yes, in the extreme. Either that or you think I am, as you prove next...

I studied the fraternity for almost a decade before I joined. I read all of the Masonic material (and anti-masonic material) I could get my hands on

Not buying it for religious second.

I'm am an ordained United Methodist minister (Elder in Full Connection) with an undergrad degree in Biblical Studies, just short of a minor in New Testament Greek, and a Master of Divinity from an accredited seminary, as well as nearly 30 years pastoring churches. I taught for several years in the religious studies department of one of our UMC related colleges. Suffice it to say I know my Christian doctrine and I know the teachings of Freemasonry

.
The thoroughness of your indoctrination and the attendant credentials is not in question. Start another thread and quit deflecting from the topic. No one is attacking you personally.

What anti-Masons can't grasp is that quite a large number of Masons are highly educated Christian leaders who have researched the fraternity and found nothing to object to. And, in fact many Christian clergy have found Freemasonry to be valuable and worthy of participating in.

With that statement alone you reveal yourself for what you are and how much you really know about what the criticisms actually say, specifically about the assault on Christianity that is brought into the churches by the builders (of the tower) who think they are going to be free (of judgement) masons when "The Craft" produces "The Great Work".

But, you couldn't accept that because you'd have to stop believing your silly pet conspiracy theory about a secret evil society.

You are allowed to be derisive and dismissive because you have embedded yourself in the kingdom of this world.
Enjoy it while you can.

 

[Rick Otto]

...
If anyone wants to see video after video, a simple youtube search will return a trove of data. Also albert pikes book can be bought at amazon, or read online for free. Alot of websites show you the quotes about it being satanic, and how free masonry is a group that meddles in politics and power at the highest level.

Its all out there. Or you can listen to a free mason who's taken an oath to NEVER tell you wahts going on. They deny everything because they took an oath, an oath that says they should be killed if they reveal anything (im not certain if any have been killed, but its their oath so)

LOL, they know everything already too, and we don't know any or never been ourselves, a Mason, so duh!
These people are not even on topic most of the time.
I've heard it said it's better not to "feed" them.

 

[Rick Otto]

QUOTE="Albion, post: 73334297, member: 93831"]I don't think this is true. Try me.

As if I haven't a million times just like I said and you again ignore, and now you try me to see if you can send me on a fool's errand.
It's insulting, and you count it virtue.

A lapel pin or two and a ring. Is that why Masonry is to be avoided???

You LOVE to deflect with oversimplification. You are the best at it I've seen yet. I fell for it over ten years ago when I was still new here, but I'm finally on to you now.

Since there isn't a particular costume and nothing very stunning in any case, I would like to have a real description from you as to what you are picturing in your mind's eye.

Again you deflect and redirect off topic.
Don't you have something useful to do?

 

[circuitrider]

I admire Albion for the on going effort he makes to dissuade you of conspiracy theories around Freemasonry. Its clear you won't believe the unvarnished truth when given to you. Feel free to continue making stuff up. <eye roll>

 

[Albion]

As if I haven't a million times just like I said and you again ignore, and now you try me to see if you can send me on a fool's errand.
It's insulting, and you count it virtue.

From what I have been seeing here, you have been posting a lot but addressing almost nothing specific about Masonry. So of course there has been no opportunity under those conditions for us to answer anything for you and other readers.

 

[Meester-Chung]

the Torah Bans initiated people to live among the Israelites this means being a freemasonry is not compatiable with being achristians


from the Septuagint the Greek translation of the original Hebrew bible

Deut 23: 17 and there shall not be an initiated person of the sons of Israel.

modern bibles that use the Masoretic OT translation don't have that verse

 

[Rick Otto]

I admire Albion for the on going effort he makes to dissuade you of conspiracy theories around Freemasonry. Its clear you won't believe the unvarnished truth when given to you. Feel free to continue making stuff up. <eye roll>

Albion has done nothing to dissuade me. His ruses don't work on me because I know who I am.
I'm not a "builder" who rejects the cornerstone, and not free of God's judgement either.
Generic, general dismissals and denials do not make for good conversation imo. Pardon me if start ignoring you.

 

[Rick Otto]

From what I have been seeing here, you have been posting a lot but addressing almost nothing specific about Masonry. So of course there has been no opportunity under those conditions for us to answer anything for you and other readers.

Your observations are obviously selective, your conclusion is wild and without substantiation, and your whole post is Once Again completely off topic.
Stop making it personal for a change. Try following the rules Albion.

 

[Albion]

Albion has done nothing to dissuade me. His ruses don't work on me because I know who I am.
I'm not a "builder" who rejects the cornerstone, and not free of God's judgement either.
Generic, general dismissals and denials do not make for good conversation imo. Pardon me if start ignoring you.

There is no attempt being made to recruit anyone.

And it is not in the least personal.

We have heard all this stuff many times before and are aware that other people read these posts too and may have similar questions, depending on what hearsay they have picked up. We are simply aspiring to answer questions and set the record straight when mistaken ideas about Masonry are posted.

What's more, I am quite willing to agree that SOME Christians probably ought not to become Masons. For example, if a person belongs to one of the churches that takes the view that it is wrong to pray while in the company of Christians who belong to other denominations, even if the prayer were the Lords Prayer. I would certainly not want them to defy the rules of their own church even if I disagree with those rules.

But that doesn't have anything to do with all the silly and outrageous claims that people pick up about Masonry from who knows where.

As for staying on topic, the topic questioned whether Masonry is "Satanic." We are waiting for any reason to think that it is. Anyone, pro or con, needs to have have specifics, not just the word Satanic, for any evaluation to take place.

 

[Rick Otto]

There is no attempt being made to recruit anyone.

Were you accused of that? Is that even an issue?
Are you on the right thread??

And it is not in the least personal.

Nonsense. You're embarrassing us now.

We have heard all this stuff many times before and are aware that other people read these posts too and may have similar questions, depending on what hearsay they have picked up. We are simply aspiring to answer questions and set the record straight when mistaken ideas about Masonry are posted.

We've all heard your stuff many times before as well and we are simply aspiring to set the record straight according to what we know in addition to the compartmentalized lower initiates of a secret society. Nothing to see here, move along.
Noble posturing and virtue signaling are worn out on me.

What's more, I am quite willing to agree that SOME Christians probably ought not to become Masons. For example, if a person belongs to one of the churches that takes the view that it is wrong to pray while in the company of Christians who belong to other denominations, even if the prayer were the Lords Prayer. I would certainly not want them to defy the rules of their own church even if I disagree with those rules.

While that sounds noble and Christian on the surface, I don't see how your good intentions make a hundreds- of-years-old-secret society not satanic. The circumstantial evidence against rosy assumptions is a tsunami against your testimony of a lower-initiate position, assuming you are a lower initiate.
I know,... it's a secret so you can't divulge anything except what a buncha great guys y'all are. I get that.

But that doesn't have anything to do with all the silly and outrageous claims that people pick up about Masonry from who knows where.

We're still waiting to hear a silly and outrageous claim except from a few who say they are masons. That wouldn't have anything to do with you, would it? Just like you said to me, this is not personal.

As for staying on topic, the topic questioned whether Masonry is "Satanic." We are waiting for any reason to think that it is.

It is not us who needs to be reminded what the topic is as my previous posts make abundantly clear, & as for you waiting...

That would be believable to anyone hasn't been paying attention. You are busy pirouetting off topic, digging in on denials, ignoring dozens of facts, evidence, questions, etc., etc.

Anyone, pro or con, needs to have have specifics, not just the word Satanic, for any evaluation to take place.

You make these micro - pontifications as if nobody knows and it hasn't already been done and handed to you . It's been years since I've been able to take you seriously. And none of this is yet on topic.
Hope everything works out for you, God bless you!

 

[Rick Otto]

the Torah Bans initiated people to live among the Israelites this means being a freemasonry is not compatiable with being achristians


from the Septuagint the Greek translation of the original Hebrew bible

Deut 23: 17 and there shall not be an initiated person of the sons of Israel.
Maybe I should get myself a copy of that Hebrew Bible, sir.
Thanks for that interesting information.
modern bibles that use the Masoretic OT translation don't have that verse

 

[Rick Otto]

In full regalia.