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DavidPT

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No: I'm not stupid.


I don't think anyone thinks you are stupid, regardless, yet you still apparently ignore the prophecies in Ezekiel 39. The house of Israel meant in that prophecy couldn't possibly be meaning Christians, unless one wants to claim it is Christians God has been hiding His face from. Unless Gog and his multitude are already long gone dead and buried, this indicates Ezekiel 39:29 has not been fulfilled yet. The fulfullment of verse 29 can't precede the judgment by God on Gog and his multitude.
 
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claninja

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Ezekiel 39:21 And I will set my glory among the heathen, and all the heathen shall see my judgment that I have executed, and my hand that I have laid upon them.


IMO the 'them' in this context is not meaning Israel nor the nations, but appears to be meaning Gog and his multitude. Ezekiel 39:17-20 is the judgment on Gog and his multitude, which is also the fulfillment of Ezekiel 39:4-5.

Ezekiel 39:21 ‘I will display My glory among the nations, and all the nations will see the judgment that I execute and the hand that I lay upon them

I would say that the "Them" of Ezekiel 39:21 equaling Gog is a possible interpretation if we compare it to Ezekiel 38:16. The nations will know God when He is proved holy through Gog. Now it doesn't directly say, but I am assuming that being "proved holy" means judgment, thus the nations will know God when He judges Gog.

Ezekiel 38:16 You will advance against my people Israel like a cloud that covers the land. In days to come, Gog, I will bring you against my land, so that the nations may know me when I am proved holy through you before their eyes.

However....


It is "from that day forward" that Israel will know that "I am the Lord"

Ezekiel 39:22 From that day forward the house of Israel will know that I am the LORD their God.

What "day" is the subject here? from what "day" forward will Israel know the Lord?

Possible option:

When Israel is goes into exile

Ezekiel 33:28-29 I will make the land a desolate waste, and the pride of her strength will come to an end. The mountains of Israel will become desolate, so that no one will pass through. Then they will know that I am the LORD, when I have made the land a desolate waste because of all the abominations they have committed.’
Ezekiel 11:10 You will fall by the sword, and I will judge you to the border of Israel. Then you will know that I am the LORD.
Ezekiel 6:10 Then in the nations to which they have been carried captive, your survivors will remember Me—how I have been grieved by their adulterous hearts that turned away from Me, and by their eyes that lusted after idols. So they will loathe themselves for the evil they have done and for all their abominations. And they will know that I am the LORD; I did not declare in vain that I would bring this calamity upon them.
Ezekiel 12:15 And they will know that I am the LORD when I disperse them among the nations and scatter them throughout the countries.

Considering Ezekiel 39:22-23 is about Israel going into exile, I would still argue that the "them" is in regards to Israel. **Notice the "nations will see the punishment" and the "nations will know that Israel went into exile".

Ezekiel 39:21-23 “I will display my glory among the nations, and all the nations will see the punishment I inflict and the hand I lay on them. From that DAY forward the people of Israel will know that I am the Lord their God. And the nations will know that the people of Israel went into exile for their sin, because they were unfaithful to me.



 
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claninja

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Unless Gog and his multitude are already long gone dead and buried, this indicates Ezekiel 39:29 has not been fulfilled yet. The fulfullment of verse 29 can't precede the judgment by God on Gog and his multitude.

However, verse 29 has already occurred. God poured out his spirit at Pentecost.
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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However verse 29 has already occurred. God poured out his spirit at Pentecost.
I would agree.
Have you and/or others noticed the similarity between "the spirit entering the bones, the bones standing up" in Ezekiel 37 and "the spirit entering into the 2 witnesses and they stand up" in Revelation 11
Just thought I would throw that out there...... need to delve into this someday.......

Ezekiel 37:
1 There hath been upon me a hand of Yahweh, and He taketh me forth in the Spirit of Yahweh, and doth place me in the midst of the valley, and it is full of bones
3 Then said He unto me "Son of Adam! Can these bones live?".
And I said " ah, my Lord Yahweh, Thou knowest!"
10 And I prophecy as He instructed and the spirit/breath is coming in them and they are living and are standing on their feet, an army/host, great, exceedingly-exceedingly.

11 And He is saying to me "Son of Adam! these bones are whole house of Yisra'el
they behold! ones saying ' bones of us dry, our hope perishes, we are severed to ourselves'. [Luke 2:34 Revelation 11:11]

Revelation 11:11
And after the three days and half-equal, a spirit/breath of Life out of God entered in/on them,

and they stand on their feet and great fear falls on the ones beholding Them. [Ezekiel 37:10]



.
 
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DavidPT

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However, verse 29 has already occurred. God poured out his spirit at Pentecost.


Ezekiel 39:7 So will I make my holy name known in the midst of my people Israel; and I will not let them pollute my holy name any more: and the heathen shall know that I am the LORD, the Holy One in Israel.
Ezekiel 39:29 Neither will I hide my face any more from them: for I have poured out my spirit upon the house of Israel, saith the Lord GOD.

Obviously verse 7 and 29 are part of the same fulfillment. Verse 7 states of the house of Israel---and I will not let them pollute my holy name any more. God is the speaker here. If verse 7 and 29 have already been fulfilled, yet some in the house of Israel, to this day, still pollute His Holy name in any manner, God then lied in verse 7, therefore does not have the real ability to actually prevent anyone of the house of Israel from polluting His holy name any more, even though He clearly declared that He will not let it happen any more once these things have been fulfilled.

Look at verse 7 below, in context. The context obviously involves the judgment on Gog and his multitude. In the event someone concludes that the judgment against Gog and his multitude is still future, which would mean so is verse 7, and at the same time conclude verse 29 has already been fulfilled, how can verse 29 already be fulfilled though when verse 7 isn't? Would God be hiding His face from them while they are polluting His holy name? Or would God no longer be hiding His face from them once He no longer let's them pollute His holy name any more? What does common sense seem to say?

Ezekiel 39:4 Thou shalt fall upon the mountains of Israel, thou, and all thy bands, and the people that is with thee: I will give thee unto the ravenous birds of every sort, and to the beasts of the field to be devoured.
5 Thou shalt fall upon the open field: for I have spoken it, saith the Lord GOD.
6 And I will send a fire on Magog, and among them that dwell carelessly in the isles: and they shall know that I am the LORD.
7 So will I make my holy name known in the midst of my people Israel; and I will not let them pollute my holy name any more: and the heathen shall know that I am the LORD, the Holy One in Israel.
8 Behold, it is come, and it is done, saith the Lord GOD; this is the day whereof I have spoken.
 
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Biblewriter

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Those individuals and groups are long dead and gone.
As jgr has to constantly repeat; genetic mathematics proves the complete mixture of ancient genes throughout the present day population. The Jews purport to be of the House of Judah, but have no proof of that and there is good historical evidence saying they are Edomites, Khazars and a general mixture of races.
The Bible teaching is plain: It is by FAITH in God and His Son, that a person is deemed an Israelite. Read and understand Galatians 3:22-29
The Jewish people, those who say they are Jews, that is: have only the Promise of Judgement, many prophesies say this and only a remnant will survive. Isaiah 6:11-13, Zechariah 13:9, Romans 9:27
The promises of God are inviolate.
 
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Biblewriter

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You haven't answered the simple question, so I'll repeat it for you.

John 10
16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

There is only one fold.

Is it Israel, or is it the Church?
The one fold is the church. But after it is taken to heaven, God will most assuredly keep every promise He made to Israel and to each and every subdivision therefore.
 
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Biblewriter

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You're still having a problem with your spectacles.

The word "But" does not appear in these verses.

Galatians 3
16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

Not "the promise". The promises. Plural.


He's the Fulfillment of all of the promises.
2 Corinthians 1
20 For all the promises of God in him are yea, and in him Amen, unto the glory of God by us.

Not "the promise". The promises. All of them.

He's the Heir of all things.
Hebrews 1
1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

These Scriptures say nothing about Israel, Judah, et al; for a very good reason.

They are not the fulfillments or the heirs. Christ is, and He is the Fulfillment and Heir of all.

Those spectacles are long overdue for the round file.
In denying that God will actually keep the promises He made to many specific groups, you are making God out to be a liar.
 
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keras

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I don't think anyone thinks you are stupid, regardless, yet you still apparently ignore the prophecies in Ezekiel 39. The house of Israel meant in that prophecy couldn't possibly be meaning Christians, unless one wants to claim it is Christians God has been hiding His face from. Unless Gog and his multitude are already long gone dead and buried, this indicates Ezekiel 39:29 has not been fulfilled yet. The fulfullment of verse 29 can't precede the judgment by God on Gog and his multitude.
It all goes back to the question; Who is the real House of Israel?
They were the 10 Northern tribes, that were exiled by Assyria in 722 BC, while the House of Judah were first exiled 135 years later by Babylon, then they, now the Jewish people, were exiled again by Rome in 70-135 AD They have come back again, but in apostasy.
Some people from the Northern tribes did join with Judah and a few do so today, but the full rejoining has not yet happened. Proved by the Blessings promised to them when they do, is Ezekiel 37, remain unfulfilled.
It is God's secret as to who and where the House of Israel is now, but from NT teachings about the Christian people from every tribe, race, nation and language, it is faithful Christians who are the Israelites of God.
So have you seen the Face of God? No: He does hide from us, this makes us believe in Him by faith alone, with the faith of Abraham, making us his spiritual descendants. Galatians 3:26-29

It is the Christians who occupy all of the holy Land, soon after it is cleared and cleansed by the Lord on His Day of fiery wrath. Ezekiel 34:11-16, 2 Thessalonians 1:6-10, +
Living in the Land in peace and prosperity and unprotected by walls or an army. Ezekiel 38:8-11
 
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keras

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In denying that God will actually keep the promises He made to many specific groups, you are making God out to be a liar.
This type of comment is unacceptable and unchristian.

Your determination to apply God's Promises to a people long assimilated and mixed genetically, is wrong and displays a lack of understanding of the Gospel message.
God will not and cannot bless a people who reject His Son. His rewards, promises and blessings are only for individuals who believe in Him, Jesus and who keep the Commandments.

The unscriptural idea of a general Jewish redemption is just another lie upon the 'rapture to heaven' Satanic deception.
The Bible has many prophesies telling of the final Judgement of Judah and their virtual demise.
 
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jgr

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In denying that God will actually keep the promises He made to many specific groups, you are making God out to be a liar.

In rejecting God's declaration that Christ His Son is the sole and exclusive Heir of His promises and bequests, you have slain Christ the Heir again, and declared His slayers to be the heirs in His place. (Matthew 21:33-45)

The parable lives today.
 
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jgr

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The one fold is the church. But after it is taken to heaven, God will most assuredly keep every promise He made to Israel and to each and every subdivision therefore.

The word “but” does not appear in the verse.

There is only one fold, and when the fold is taken to heaven, there is no other fold, and those who refused to enter it are eternally lost.

The Shepherd's promises are only for Him and those in His fold. When the fold is taken, the promises are taken with it. No fold, no promises.

There are not nor will there be promises for Israel or anyone else after the fold is taken.
 
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ItIsFinished!

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This type of comment is unacceptable and unchristian.

Your determination to apply God's Promises to a people long assimilated and mixed genetically, is wrong and displays a lack of understanding of the Gospel message.
God will not and cannot bless a people who reject His Son. His rewards, promises and blessings are only for individuals who believe in Him, Jesus and who keep the Commandments.

The unscriptural idea of a general Jewish redemption is just another lie upon the 'rapture to heaven' Satanic deception.
The Bible has many prophesies telling of the final Judgement of Judah and their virtual demise.
The concept of the rapture isn't a lie , but rather scriptural.
 
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ItIsFinished!

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A pretrib removal of the Church to heaven seven years before the Second Coming of Christ is "End Times Fiction".

.
Thank you for you're interpretation of the Scriptures.
I 100% disagree with you're assessment.
The Church will NOT be here during the 7 year tribulation.
Whatsoever.
 
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jgr

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Thank you for you're interpretation of the Scriptures.
I 100% disagree with you're assessment.
The Church will NOT be here during the 7 year tribulation.
Whatsoever.
There was a five year tribulation from 66-70 AD.

Historical accounts confirm that it was unprecedented before, and unsurpassed since. (Matthew 24:21)
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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There was a five year tribulation from 66-70 AD.

Historical accounts confirm that it was unprecedented before, and unsurpassed since. (Matthew 24:21)
According to Josephus, during the famine created by the siege in 70ad, it got so bad, that they took up a lament concerning those that death had hurried away.

Matthew 3:7
But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees coming to his baptism, he said to them,
Brood of vipers! Who warned you to flee from the being about wrath/ ὀργῆς<3709> to come?
Luke 3:7
Then he said to the multitudes that came out to be baptized by him, “Brood of vipers! Who warned ye to flee from the being about wrath/ὀργῆς<3709> to come?

Luke 21:
22 That days of vengeance these are, of the to be fulfilled all the having been written, .
23 “But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days!
For there will be Great Distress in the land and Wrath/ὀργὴ <3709> upon this people.
Luke 23:
28 and Jesus having turned unto them, said, ‘Daughters of Jerusalem! weep not for Me, but for yourselves weep ye, and for your children 29 for behold! days do come, in which they shall say, 'Happy the barren, and wombs that did not bare, and paps that did not give suck; 30 then they shall begin to say to the mountains, Fall on us, and to the hills, Cover us;' — 31 for, if in the green tree they do these things — in the dry, what may happen?’

This appears to denote the distress of famine?

Revelation 6:6
And I hear a voice in midst of the four living-ones saying: "choinex of grain/wheat a denarius and three choinex of barleys a denarius, and the oil and the wine no you should be injuring"

Can anyone say "holocaust"...........

The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD

The day on which Titus encompassed Jerusalem, was the feast of the Passover

Meanwhile the horrors of famine grew still more melancholy and afflictive.
The Jews, for of food were at length compelled to eat their belts, their sandals, the skins of their shields, dried grass, and even the ordure of oxen. In the depth or this horrible extremity, a Jewess of noble family urged by the intolerable cravings of hunger, slew her infant child, and prepared it for a meal ; and had actually eaten one half thereof, when the soldiers, allured by tile smell of food, threatened her with instant death if she refused to discover it. 'Intimidated by this menace, she immediately produced the remains of her son, which petrified them with horror.

At the recital of this melancholy and affecting occurrence, the whole city stood aghast, and poured forth their congratulations on those whom death had hurried away from such heartrending scenes........

Revelation 9:
5 and it was given to them that they may not kill them, but that they may be tormented five months, and their torment [is] as the torment of a scorpion, when it may strike a man;
6 and in those days the men shall be seeking the death, and and not no they shall be finding it,
and they shall be desiring to be dying, and the death is fleeing from them.

Captivity and sword Luke 21:24 Revelation 13:10

Jeremiah 15:2
“And it shall be, if they say to you, ‘Where should we go?' then you shall tell them, ‘Thus says the LORD:
“Such as are for death, to death;
And such as are for the sword, to the sword;
And such as are for the famine, to the famine;
And such as are for the captivity, to the captivity.” '


Luke 21:24
And they shall be falling to mouth of sword and they shall be being led captive into all the nations.
And Jerusalem shall be being trodden by nations until which may be being filled times of nations.
[Deuteronomy 28:68/Revelation 11:2 13:10]

Revelation 13:10
If any to-captivity into captivity is going away.
If any in sword to be killed, is binding him in sword to be killed.
Here is the endurance and the faith of the Saints

.
 
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Biblewriter

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The word “but” does not appear in the verse.

There is only one fold, and when the fold is taken to heaven, there is no other fold, and those who refused to enter it are eternally lost.

The Shepherd's promises are only for Him and those in His fold. When the fold is taken, the promises are taken with it. No fold, no promises.

There are not nor will there be promises for Israel or anyone else after the fold is taken.
If what you say here is true, then about a fourth of the Old Testament is false.
 
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keras

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The concept of the rapture isn't a lie , but rather scriptural.
Jesus said: Take care that you be not deceived...…
This implies that some WILL be deceived, people who decide for themselves what they want God to do for them, instead of really finding out God's plans for our future.

A 'rapture to heaven' of the Church is never mentioned in the Bible, but many verses tell us how the Lord will protect His own through all that is prophesied to happen.

However, its plain that you and all who grip onto the 'rapture' theory, won't change your belief, no matter how many scriptural proofs of its false premise, that I present.
So the best I can advise, is that when disaster strikes, and be assured it will, Ezekiel 33:33, you must; Call upon the Name of the Lord and you will be saved. Joel 2:32, Acts 2:21
 
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keras

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If what you say here is true, then about a fourth of the Old Testament is false.
No; Biblewriter, those prophesies will come to pass. The true, righteous Israelites will receive them. Not the fake Israelis, who call themselves Jews, but the real Overcomers for God, literally His Israelites from every tribe, race, nation and language. Revelation 5:9-10
We see them in each of the 7 Church's of Revelation 2 and 3.

Jesus is the epitome of Israel, He is the trunk of the Olive Tree and we are the branches. As faithful followers of Jesus; we are the true Israelites of God.
 
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