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Worldview Discussion - Part 2

Jane_the_Bane

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Naturally, you won't find too many people who do not believe that their world view matches the reality they experience - if any. Still, you will find them ending up with totally different convictions about the nature of the universe, the purpose of life, their moral convictions, their political ideals and so forth.

For example, Objectivists and Communists both claim to follow a world view based on nothing but objective facts observed and analysed by reason - and yet, they could not be more diametrically opposed.

With that it mind, let me try to answer how *I* figure out what's what:
The scientific method clearly provides the best way to prevent confirmation bias and subjectivity from messing up our understanding of natural processes: these errors still occur, but the method accounts for them and tries its best to eliminate their influence. Accordingly, we've already learned quite a few things that are vastly counter-intuitive, and yet are sustained by the evidence.

But the scientific method cannot be a substitute for the humanities; philosophy, spirituality, anthropology, etc. In all matters of generated meaning, matters become a bit more complicated. I like to look at these matters from a Post-Structuralist/Deconstructionist perspective, meaning that I acknowledge language as a self-referential medium that already projects specific ways of interpreting the world upon things: it doesn't merely *label* a pre-existing framework, but *creates* it to begin with.

Looking at religious/mythological texts, I see human beings trying to understand their place in the greater scheme of things, NOT divine beings communicating with man. Quasi-human agency is projected upon an enormous canvas, and totally indifferent, undirected natural events suddenly become intentional punishments, godly omens or divine displays of power. I believe that it takes special pleading to single out a specific text and claim that it is different from all the rest of a fundamental level, constituting the One True Revelation.
 
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Wordkeeper

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If your fundamental end-goal is to "know God", then how has the practice of your path enabled you to "know God" to a greater extent? Does the drive to "know God" underlie all your volitional activity in observable existence?
The path can lead to a choice to have trust in Christ which results in knowing God, uniting with Him, or a decision that the risk is too great and withdrawal, which leads to stasis. Based on the revelations experienced, I have decided to so trust, and have been united with Him. Unity with God solves many problems, some common with other world views.
 
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ananda

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The path can lead to a choice to have trust in Christ which results in knowing God, uniting with Him, or a decision that the risk is too great and withdrawal, which leads to stasis. Based on the revelations experienced, I have decided to so trust, and have been united with Him. Unity with God solves many problems, some common with other world views.
I'm glad that the personal revelations you've received convinced you of the nature of your deity, and that that experience and your path were sufficient to answer your questions regarding life.
 
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I'm glad that the personal revelations you've received convinced you of the nature of your deity, and that that experience and your path were sufficient to answer your questions regarding life.
World views are categorised under reality and hope. Rationalists refuse to examine and critique religions because they cannot be confirmed. How does any body explore claims and set up experiments about events that occur after death? Surpisingly, I found Christianity comes under the reality category. The events occur in this life!
 
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ananda

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World views are categorised under reality and hope. Rationalists refuse to examine and critique religions because they cannot be confirmed. How does any body explore claims and set up experiments about events that occur after death? Surpisingly, I found Christianity comes under the reality category. The events occur in this life!
The question for me is: "is 'knowing god' my fundamental end-goal in life?" I would have to answer no.
 
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The question for me is: "is 'knowing god' my fundamental end-goal in life?" I would have to answer no.
Moksha is union with God. Nirvana is release. Those are the parameters in Hinduism and Buddhism. To escape suffering.

The goal in Christianity is purposeful living. Adam was created to subdue creation. Like a horse needs to be subdued to become useful to the Owner.

Reverting to the Adamic state is the intermediate goal.
 
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ananda

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Moksha is union with God. Nirvana is release. Those are the parameters in Hinduism and Buddhism. To escape suffering.

The goal in Christianity is purposeful living. Adam was created to subdue creation. Like a horse needs to be subdued to become useful to the Owner.

Reverting to the Adamic state is the intermediate goal.
I seek release from god, in a sense!
 
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AV1611VET

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The question for me is: "is 'knowing god' my fundamental end-goal in life?" I would have to answer no.
Do you want God to know you?

Galatians 4:9 But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage?
 
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ananda

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Do you want God to know you?

Galatians 4:9 But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage?
My goal is relief from discontentment and suffering - not god.
 
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I seek release from god, in a sense!
Galatians 4:9 But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage?

You seek to return to the weak and beggarly elements and desire to be in bondage again?

Why?
 
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ananda

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Galatians 4:9 But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage?

You seek to return to the weak and beggarly elements and desire to be in bondage again?

Why?
I don't seek god or elements, but freedom from suffering.

Which is it?
Both. I consider "god" to be the epitome of bondage to suffering, and therefore the opposite of what I seek.

The common understanding of "god" includes the idea of an acting, infinite being. It is my knowledge that action is always done as a result of experiencing some sort of discontentment or suffering. Therefore, an acting god is an infinitely discontent being.
 
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I don't seek god or elements, but freedom from suffering.


Both. I consider "god" to be the epitome of bondage to suffering, and therefore the opposite of what I seek.

The common understanding of "god" includes the idea of an acting, infinite being. It is my knowledge that action is always done as a result of experiencing some sort of discontentment or suffering. Therefore, an acting god is an infinitely discontent being.
Many people become Christians without knowing the implications. When they make enquiries they are asked to just trust.

It happens to new Buddhists too. In a recent discussion, a housewife became flustered with our questioning and confessed that she had been told not to focus on theory! Ours is not to question why...

A strange contradiction arose in my impressions about Buddhism. If the goal is to reduce the total sum of suffering in the universe, why allow marriage and family? Isn't that increasing suffering?
 
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ananda

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Many people become Christians without knowing the implications. When they make enquiries they are asked to just trust.

It happens to new Buddhists too. In a recent discussion, a housewife became flustered with our questioning and confessed that she had been told not to focus on theory! Ours is not to question why...

A strange contradiction arose in my impressions about Buddhism. If the goal is to reduce the total sum of suffering in the universe, why allow marriage and family? Isn't that increasing suffering?
Marriage and family is not necessarily "allowed" nor "disallowed" in Buddhism.

The Buddha simply taught the consequences of various classes of activities, and that we must live with the consequences of our choices. He merely pointed out how some activities produce hellish results, other activities produce heavenly results, and yet others (like marriage) produce middling results.
 
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AV1611VET

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I don't seek god or elements, but freedom from suffering.
I seek freedom from suffering too.

We call it "Heaven."
ananda said:
Both. I consider "god" to be the epitome of bondage to suffering, and therefore the opposite of what I seek.
Isaiah 5:20 Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil;
ananda said:
The common understanding of "god" includes the idea of an acting, infinite being. It is my knowledge that action is always done as a result of experiencing some sort of discontentment or suffering. Therefore, an acting god is an infinitely discontent being.
So it's okay for you to act on your behalf, but God can't?
 
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ananda

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I seek freedom from suffering too. We call it "Heaven." Isaiah 5:20 Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil;

So it's okay for you to act on your behalf, but God can't?
I have direct knowledge of myself, my actions, and consequences of my actions. I have no direct knowledge of any alleged active, infinite being.
 
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The Buddha simply taught the consequences of various classes of activities, and that we must live with the consequences of our choices.
That's because Buddhism was invented as a breakaway religion from Hinduism and its very oppressive caste system.
 
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Marriage and family is not necessarily "allowed" nor "disallowed" in Buddhism.

The Buddha simply taught the consequences of various classes of activities, and that we must live with the consequences of our choices. He merely pointed out how some activities produce hellish results, other activities produce heavenly results, and yet others (like marriage) produce middling results.
Logically Buddha should not have been neutral towards marriage since it produces more humans and consequentially, more suffering. He should have firmly ruled out marriage and solved the problem of that source of suffering. Eventually there would be no suffering Buddhists because there wouldn't BE any Buddhists!
 
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