Should atheists believe in the God of christianity if...

[jayem]

Is it possible God doesn't want you because you don't want him? I am under no impression any atheist wants to actually believe. So if atheists don't want God why should he want them?

Of course, it's possible. Just as it's possible that if Christians don't want Allah, he doesn't want them either.

 

[quatona]

So if atheists don't want God why should he want them?

It´s not about shoulds, it´s more like I frequently hear that He does.
But since you know He doesn´t, that´s off the table, I guess.

 

[Ken-1122]

Hey hey
What experience would you need to have a belief in God?

Doesn't matter; if God knows everything, he would know what experience is needed to convince me.

Do you want to be convinced?

I'm only interested in the truth.

Why is the notion of God so unappealing to you?
Why is it important to you that there is no God?.

I don't come from the position of do I want there to be a God or not, If a supernatural being did exist, good or bad; I would want to know as much about it as possible and would do everything in my ability to learn about it. However; if such a being did exist; I doubt it would be anything close to what any human has ever chosen to worship and call God

 

[Ken-1122]

Is it possible God doesn't want you because you don't want him? I am under no impression any atheist wants to actually believe. So if atheists don't want God why should he want them?

That's petty. Assuming your idea of God is perfect, if God were perfect; he would not have the human flaw of pettiness. So I would say no, it is not possible.

 

[jayem]

That's petty. Assuming your idea of God is perfect, if God were perfect; he would not have the human flaw of pettiness. So I would say no, it is not possible.

Absolutely. But a perfect god would know if someone is pretending to be a believer. And would not likely be pleased.

 

[the iconoclast]

All of them...

Well, to be fair, there may have been a god that man has invented, for which there has been produced some evidence. But I am unaware of it, if such a thing exists...

Hey sir

So you believe the Christian God is man made. How do you know this?

Cheers

 

[the iconoclast]

The question wasn't addressed to me. But here's an honest answer: I have no idea what experience would induce me to believe. But God would know. If there is a God. And if God wants me as a believer.



Again--to be totally honest--I'm happy the way I am. I've never felt my life lacked anything because I didn't believe in any kind of god, and didn't follow any kind of religion.



It's not an issue of unappealing. It's one of implausibility. To me, all gods are illusory. Unreal. Products of the imagination. It's how you would react to the notion of Zeus, or Thor, or Operating Thetan Level 8 in Scientology.



Odd question. It's like asking why is it important that the Earth isn't flat. I'm just stating reality as I see it. I'm a naturalist. I believe everything in the universe is a function of matter/energy and the fundamental forces of nature. Meaning I reject the existence of anything supernatural. Which would be any entity claimed to be beyond or outside the realm of matter/energy, but still has the power to affect events in the natural world. I know I can't prove it. And I know it's not a belief many others share. But that's ok. Each to his own. I have no intention of converting anyone to my way of thinking, and no expectation that anyone would convert.

Hey hey my dear.

You are right, the question was not addressed to you.

I find it hard to converse with too many ppl, when the time is right i will find you. Trust me!

See you very soon

 

[the iconoclast]

I doubt that a single experience would be enough. There would have to be a pattern of experiences that are best explained in a theistic context. It's a tall order when my entire life to date parsimoniously leads to a non-theistic and naturalistic viewpoint.



That's an odd question. I would have to have a strong bias in order to want to be convinced of a particular position before actually being presented with the stronger case. It's a kind of dishonesty.



Which concept of God? There are relatively appealing and unappealing conceptions of God. But appeal isn't important to me as far as belief goes. If astronomers were to discover than a large asteroid was hurtling towards the Earth and that all life on Earth could be destroyed, the news would be very unappealing. However, if the evidence was sufficient, I would believe anyway.



It isn't. What's important to me is understanding the world for what it is, not what I might want it to be. Honesty and rationality are important.


eudaimonia,

Mark

Hey hey my dear

I find it hard to converse with too many ppl, when im done with some of these other conversations i will love to converse with you.

See you very soon

 

[the iconoclast]

Doesn't matter; if God knows everything, he would know what experience is needed to convince me.

I'm only interested in the truth.

I don't come from the position of do I want there to be a God or not, If a supernatural being did exist, good or bad; I would want to know as much about it as possible and would do everything in my ability to learn about it. However; if such a being did exist; I doubt it would be anything close to what any human has ever chosen to worship and call God

Hey hey friend

Too many ppl, too much time. Ill see you around soon. We will have some fun!

See you soon for some one on one

 

[the iconoclast]

I don´t know, I can´t make predictions like that.

Hey hey my friend


You know what you would not accept as evidence re God but dont know what you would accept? Come on lets have some fun.


Have a think, what experience would you need or want?

Dont be shy!!!

This isn´t a thing of what I want or don´t want.

Why not, to be convinced is to cause to believe firmly in the truth of something. You have been convinced that there is no God. What has convinced you that there is no God?

What makes you think it is unappealing to me?

Ok. Is it appealing to you? Why?

It´s loaded with incorrect assumptions.

Well lets look at the question posed by @Allandavid

The sir - "Why are you holding onto your disbelief in Krishna...?"

Icon - "why do you hold onto a disbelief in salvation through Our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ?"

We both made a similar style question. My question is the wrong way round, so is his, how does he make his the right way round?

I guess you didn´t notice, but you ignored the actual points, then changed the subject to something else,

What actual points would you like me to address?

now claiming I have your undivided attention if I answer your off-topic and loaded questions.

A loaded question is a question with a false or questionable presupposition, and it is "loaded" with that presumption. Could you show me how iam guilty?

But...feel free to tell me about those experiences that convinced you, and of which you feel they should convince everyone once they have them.

Ill save those for later. Ive never been in a habbit to reveal all my cards in one sitting.

Lets reason together.

Cheers

 

[Allandavid]

Hey sir

So you believe the Christian God is man made. How do you know this?

Cheers

I don’t “know” it, in any conclusive manner. But, given the thousands of other gods that man has proposed throughout history, the evidence points in that direction.

Man has tended to manufacture gods to give explanation for those things of which he is ignorant, or those things he fears...

 

[the iconoclast]

I don’t “know” it, in any conclusive manner. But, given the thousands of other gods that man has proposed throughout history, the evidence points in that direction.

Man has tended to manufacture gods to give explanation for those things of which he is ignorant, or those things he fears...

Hey sir

If you dont know in any conclusive manner then how did you come to your conclusion?

Cheers

 

[Allandavid]

Hey sir

If you dont know in any conclusive manner then how did you come to your conclusion?

Cheers

As with all observation of reality, it’s a tentative conclusion. Unlike the religiously dogmatic, most atheists don’t make statements such as “there is no god/s”. We CONCLUDE that there has never been produced any evidence, to date, to support such a contention, so we withhold belief until such time that the evidence is forthcoming.

I note that you stated to another poster that he concluded that god/s do not exist. You are wrong in that claim...

 

[ImAllLikeOkWaitWat]

Absolutely. But a perfect god would know if someone is pretending to be a believer. And would not likely be pleased.

It seems you believe a perfect God should allow everyone salvation even those like you who reject him?

 

[Allandavid]

It seems you believe a perfect God should allow everyone salvation even those like you who reject him?

Ummm...it seems you didn’t read what he wrote...

 

[ImAllLikeOkWaitWat]

Ummm...it seems you didn’t read what he wrote...

I was addressing this idea atheists have that they shouldn't have to deal with the consequences of their lack of belief, yet they all seem to believe that if God was perfect then they should have eternal life like believers even if they reject him. Because a perfect God would give them eternal life regardless. Which is absurd.

Correct me if I'm wrong but that seems to be what atheists are saying here. I get why they would want that but i think its incorrect. I think that if a person rejects God and he rejects them he is just in doing so. The perfect God to an atheist isn't actually perfect, but a God that gives them eternal life when they could care less about him. Which I don't think is just and would make him not perfect. Lets also know that what is perfect is subjective. Perfect is what would be best for the atheist so they avoid consequences. I however am not saying atheists are saying they aren't willing to accept the consequences of their atheism, i'm only saying that they try to blame God "if he does exist" for "punishing" them because they didn't believe. Which he has every right to do. And it's not so much a punishment as it is a direct result of unbelief and a lack of salvation which leads to eternal life.

 

[Allandavid]

I was addressing this idea atheists have that they shouldn't have to deal with the consequences of their lack of belief, yet they all seem to believe that if God was perfect then they should have eternal life like believers even if they reject him. Because a perfect God would give them eternal life regardless. Which is absurd.

Correct me if I'm wrong but that seems to be what atheists are saying here. I get why they would want that but i think its incorrect. I think that if a person rejects God and he rejects them he is just in doing so. The perfect God to an atheist isn't actually perfect, but a God that gives them eternal life when they could care less about him. Which I don't think is just and would make him not perfect. Lets also know that what is perfect is subjective. Perfect is what would be best for the atheist so they avoid consequences. I however am not saying atheists are saying they aren't willing to accept the consequences of their atheism, i'm only saying that they try to blame God "if he does exist" for "punishing" them because they didn't believe. Which he has every right to do. And it's not so much a punishment as it is a direct result of unbelief and a lack of salvation which leads to eternal life.

No....no one that I’ve noticed has made such a claim...

Consider yourself corrected...

 

[quatona]

You know what you would not accept as evidence re God but dont know what you would accept?

No, not what I said.

Come on lets have some fun.

The way you go about a conversation isn´t fun, for me.

Have a think, what experience would you need or want?

Dont be shy!!!

You come across as a tad pushy.

Why not, to be convinced is to cause to believe firmly in the truth of something. You have been convinced that there is no God.

No.

Ok. Is it appealing to you?

No.

What actual points would you like me to address?

If you want me to engage in a conversation with you, I would expect you to adress the statements I made.

A loaded question is a question with a false or questionable presupposition, and it is "loaded" with that presumption. Could you show me how iam guilty?

You asked several "why do you...?" questions about things I do not.

Ill save those for later. Ive never been in a habbit to reveal all my cards in one sitting.

Just a little feedback for you: Despite all the emoticons and niceties I don´t have the feeling that I have your attention. It seems to me that you are just interested in your script.

Lets reason together.

Feel free to make an attempt at reasoning.

 

[the iconoclast]

No, not what I said.

Hey hey my newest friend

Well lets follow the flow of our discussion.

Quatona - "Try to understand that me lacking a belief is due to my lack of any experiences (observations of facts, events) that would point to the existence of the thing I lack belief in."

Icon - "What experience would you need to have a belief in God?"

Quatona - "I don´t know, I can´t make predictions like that."

Icon - "You know what you would not accept as evidence re God but dont know what you would accept?"

Quatona - "No, not what I said."

Then what did you say?

You come across as a tad pushy

Please escuse me I mean no offense. Could you please indulge me and be so kind as to tell me what experience would you need or want for the existance of God?

No

Quatona - "Try to understand that me lacking a belief is due to my lack of any experiences (observations of facts, events) that would point to the existence of the thing I lack belief in."

Icon - "Do you want to be convinced?"

Quatona - "This isn´t a thing of what I want or don´t want"

Icon - "Why not, to be convinced is to cause to believe firmly in the truth of something. You have been convinced that there is no God. What has convinced you that there is no God?"

Quatona - "No."


Please excuse me my friend, iam confused. You say that your rejection of God is due to your lack of experiences.

An experience is also an event or occurrence which leaves an impression on someone. Oservations or facts that leave an impression.

Which would cause you to believe firmly in the truth of something (.eg the definition of convinced). The experience would convince you.

What do you mean by no?

No you do not want to be convinced - which would contradict your original statement - or no to what?

No

Quatona - "What makes you think it is unappealing to me?"

Icon - [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]. Is it appealing to you? Why?"

Quatona - "no".

Please excuse me, is the notion of God appealing or unappealing to you?

If you want me to engage in a conversation with you, I would expect you to adress the statements I made.

Please excuse me. What statements would you like me to address?

You asked several "why do you...?" questions about things I do not.

A "why do you" is not a loaded question. That is a sentence worded or expressed so as to elicit information.

A loaded question is presumption of guilt ie do you still beat your wife. Please excuse me, you ssem to have misunderstood what a loaded question is.

Just a little feedback for you: Despite all the emoticons and niceties I don´t have the feeling that I have your attention. It seems to me that you are just interested in your script.

Well no need for concern. I delayed 3 new conversations just to include you and allandavid.

I can assure you, i am very interested in you and you have my attention.

Now dont forget, you ignored something.

@Allandavid posed a similiar style question, how does he make his statement the right way round?

Please do not ignore this question as this pertains to your original substance ie right way round.

Cheers

 

[the iconoclast]

As with all observation of reality, it’s a tentative conclusion.

Hey hey allandavid

What observation of reality - or lack of observation - leads you to that conclusion?

Unlike the religiously dogmatic, most atheists don’t make statements such as “there is no god/s”.
We CONCLUDE that there has never been produced any evidence, to date, to support such a contention, so we withhold belief until such time that the evidence is forthcoming.

Please correct me if im wrong, the premise is if i or anyone else could supply evidence to you that proves God exists, you would give Him your attention?

If I could do this or it could be done, how would this effect your life and how would you pay attention to Him?

I note that you stated to another poster that he concluded that god/s do not exist. You are wrong in that claim...

How so? Could you please explain what you mean here?

Cheers sir