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When things fit patterns I don't think they should be dismissed as interpreted to preferred outcome. They should instead be investigated. 2c
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It seems to me that your deliberately confusing issues, but if that makes you feel justified to accuse me of re-iterpreting scripture then it must be pointed out that our interpretations are just that. Have a good day.
Just to clear up our own little differences ... Jewish men and Gentile women are not under law, which I think we both agree on. Abba being Father we can both agree about. Adoption I believe is a misinterpretation because Christians are of the actual seed uncorrupted. Grafted in means that the root is the same but the branches are not.No, I'm clearly not. Jew (as a nationality) and Gentile (those who aren't a part of that ethnic group) are grafted into the exact same tree without seam.
An adopted son is no less a son, such that the lack of blood is not seen, and this from a human father, so how much more our heavenly father?
There isnt any separation of promise between a bloodline and others, all the promises are for all of Israel (the group of people who are true Israel, the Church who belongs to Jesus). past, present and future.. There isn't a group still under the law..
It's wrong try and make a division where God made reconciliation of people in Him = one body, one Spirit = one Lord, one faith, one baptism.
There is no longer Jew (nationality) or Gentile (nationality) as scripture says:
"There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus."
So why sit and say "Jew" is under law for their salvation? It's not biblical and is intellectually dishonest to read scripture in such a manner as to sow division.."jew" is now faith.
So yes, I agree with you that we are clearly unable to reconcile our own differences until we both start reading from the same scriptures.
Every time prophesy has predicted a new branch of the family as being the chosen one a fresh risk, humanly speaking, is involved.....
Ruth was the means of bringing into the picture the analogy of the Kinsman Reedemer representing Christ's work just as male and female are representative of Christ and the church.
...
I have heard from some that the curse from Adam's time has been completely removed only for Gentile men.
I don't understand their semantics to back up their statements. Can this be discussed using scripture for and against the argument please.
Examples would be from @Dave-W (posted below) and I think I also heard @RDKirk expressing the same semantic, if they could contribute to the thread would be appreciated.
Myself I don't believe there is a difference between Jew, Gentile, slave, free, women or men in the accomplishments of Christ because that simply was the point of His mission was to make whole the body. I believe Paul used metaphors that people don't get past to find the truth. But I find that the metaphors are used as truth that I believe are really a lie are being propagated.
I prefer to stay out of that debate and would just like to hear the semantics it's coming from. Thanks
Why do some women contribute to their own oppression?
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I thought that curse was reversed at the cross?
Not “reversed,” but partly nullified. The full nullification will not occur until the very end, when we no longer have to deal with sickness or death.
Hannah's prayer
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Good point. Do you believe that when Paul vowed that he was treading the line between old and new?
Not really. It boils down to the issue brought up at the First Jerusalem council in Acts 15 - which exempted GENTILE converts from following the Law of Moses. It did NOT include Jews who came to faith in Messiah. They still had (and HAVE) to follow the Law in a New Covenant way. .......
If that were true why would Gentile women still be inclusive. Makes no sense.
I have heard from some that the curse from Adam's time has been completely removed only for Gentile men.
I don't understand their semantics to back up their statements. Can this be discussed using scripture for and against the argument please.
Examples would be from @Dave-W (posted below) and I think I also heard @RDKirk expressing the same semantic, if they could contribute to the thread would be appreciated.
Myself I don't believe there is a difference between Jew, Gentile, slave, free, women or men in the accomplishments of Christ because that simply was the point of His mission was to make whole the body. I believe Paul used metaphors that people don't get past to find the truth. But I find that the metaphors are used as truth that I believe are really a lie are being propagated.
I prefer to stay out of that debate and would just like to hear the semantics it's coming from. Thanks
Why do some women contribute to their own oppression?
↑
I thought that curse was reversed at the cross?
Not “reversed,” but partly nullified. The full nullification will not occur until the very end, when we no longer have to deal with sickness or death.
Hannah's prayer
↑
Good point. Do you believe that when Paul vowed that he was treading the line between old and new?
Not really. It boils down to the issue brought up at the First Jerusalem council in Acts 15 - which exempted GENTILE converts from following the Law of Moses. It did NOT include Jews who came to faith in Messiah. They still had (and HAVE) to follow the Law in a New Covenant way. .......
If that were true why would Gentile women still be inclusive. Makes no sense.
I have heard from some that the curse from Adam's time has been completely removed only for Gentile men.
I don't understand their semantics to back up their statements. Can this be discussed using scripture for and against the argument please.
Examples would be from @Dave-W (posted below) and I think I also heard @RDKirk expressing the same semantic, if they could contribute to the thread would be appreciated.
Myself I don't believe there is a difference between Jew, Gentile, slave, free, women or men in the accomplishments of Christ because that simply was the point of His mission was to make whole the body. I believe Paul used metaphors that people don't get past to find the truth. But I find that the metaphors are used as truth that I believe are really a lie are being propagated.
I prefer to stay out of that debate and would just like to hear the semantics it's coming from. Thanks
Why do some women contribute to their own oppression?
↑
I thought that curse was reversed at the cross?
Not “reversed,” but partly nullified. The full nullification will not occur until the very end, when we no longer have to deal with sickness or death.
Hannah's prayer
↑
Good point. Do you believe that when Paul vowed that he was treading the line between old and new?
Not really. It boils down to the issue brought up at the First Jerusalem council in Acts 15 - which exempted GENTILE converts from following the Law of Moses. It did NOT include Jews who came to faith in Messiah. They still had (and HAVE) to follow the Law in a New Covenant way. .......
If that were true why would Gentile women still be inclusive. Makes no sense.
Probably 99% of the Christian posters here will say that Jews who convert to Christianity are no longer obligated to keep the Passover feast. Most of you, perhaps 75-80%, will say that when the New Testament talks about eternal punishment, it means that said punishment is forever, never ending.
So, let us look at the command to keep the Passover feast from Exodus 12:14 from a few different versions.
(1) "And this day shall be unto you a memorial, and ye shall keep it a feast to the Lord: throughout your generations ye shall keep it a feast by an ordinance for ever." (English Revised Version)
(2) "This day is to be a memorial for you and you are to celebrate it as a festival to the Lord. You are to celebrate it as a perpetual ordinance from generation to generation." (International Standard Version)
(3) "This day shall be for you a memorial, and you shall keep it as a feast to Yahweh: throughout your generations you shall keep it a feast as an ordinance forever." (World English Bible)
(4) "And this day shall be unto you a memorial; and you shall keep it a feast to the LORD throughout your generations; you shall keep it a feast by an ordinance forever." (King James 2000 Bible)
Note, the command for Jews to keep the Passover feast does not say to keep it until the Messiah comes or until the son of God arrives or until the Temple is destroyed. No, the command uses the term "perpetual" or "forever".
Based upon the commandment in Exodus, it would seem that Jews who convert to Christianity better think long and hard before they cease keeping the Passover feast.
At passover the Israelites needed to enter into their houses and remain there because the blood had been sprinkled upon that abode. Exodus 12:13, Exodus 12:22-23When things fit patterns I don't think they should be dismissed as interpreted to preferred outcome. They should instead be investigated. 2c
I have heard from some that the curse from Adam's time has been completely removed only for Gentile men.
This is not correct, the curse has not been removed for men nor women. The curse on the man was that he had to work to earn a living. There are not many men who don't still have to do that. The curse on women remains, child birth and submission to her husband. However God is in the business of reducing the impact of the curse on his people. We inherit the blessing of Abraham in Christ, a part of that blessing was to be blessed as you come in and as you go out, be blessed in your food bowl, and your possessions. Married couples are also asked to "submit to one another", and husbands are told to love their wives, so the husbands headship is not totalitarian.
It is mainly in the NT that women are told to be submissive to their husbands, it is a relatively new testament idea, so the curse in its totality is not lifted, the wife is to submit to their husband, but the husband is to love and be thoughtful of their wife.
The wages of sin was death but Adam didn't die immediately upon sin. What this reveals is that death came after decay and even today, when we are born, the clock begins to tick toward our demise.I have heard from some that the curse from Adam's time has been completely removed only for Gentile men.
I don't understand their semantics to back up their statements. Can this be discussed using scripture for and against the argument please.
Examples would be from @Dave-W (posted below) and I think I also heard @RDKirk expressing the same semantic, if they could contribute to the thread would be appreciated.
Myself I don't believe there is a difference between Jew, Gentile, slave, free, women or men in the accomplishments of Christ because that simply was the point of His mission was to make whole the body. I believe Paul used metaphors that people don't get past to find the truth. But I find that the metaphors are used as truth that I believe are really a lie are being propagated.
I prefer to stay out of that debate and would just like to hear the semantics it's coming from. Thanks
Why do some women contribute to their own oppression?
↑
I thought that curse was reversed at the cross?
Not “reversed,” but partly nullified. The full nullification will not occur until the very end, when we no longer have to deal with sickness or death.
Hannah's prayer
↑
Good point. Do you believe that when Paul vowed that he was treading the line between old and new?
Not really. It boils down to the issue brought up at the First Jerusalem council in Acts 15 - which exempted GENTILE converts from following the Law of Moses. It did NOT include Jews who came to faith in Messiah. They still had (and HAVE) to follow the Law in a New Covenant way. .......
If that were true why would Gentile women still be inclusive. Makes no sense.
In the physical sense yes, but spiritually He can change the barren to fruition instantly. The removal of pain and suffering stands ahead of us as the birth pangs of the earth unfold.The wages of sin was death but Adam didn't die immediately upon sin. What this reveals is that death came after decay and even today, when we are born, the clock begins to tick toward our demise.
Another curse was directly placed on women, pain in childbirth. So the question is asked, "Didn't Yeshua reverse the curse" and the answer is "yes and no." You see, he did the work needed to reverse the curse, and now has the right and power to perfect anything he desires, but he hasn't implemented that yet, this is something he will do when he returns. So the work that gave him a right to perfect has been done, but the perfection stands ahead of us.