Do "works of righteousness" declare the Atonement to be incomplete?

[Bible Highlighter]

I believe that the work of the Atonement is a complete work. Something you seem unable to grasp.

So if this is true, can a believer mow down a crowd of people with a submachine gun and still be saved while doing so?

If that is your idea of God's amazing grace, I want no part of it.
Granted, such a belief is not only unbiblical, but is also immoral, as well.
I sure hope that is not what you believe.

Do you know what morality is?

 

[daydreamer40]

Big problem is that you fail to distinguish between works of the Law and good works done out of obedience to the Word and Spirit. In Romans, Paul refers to WORKS OF THE LAW. In Ephesians 2:10 Paul refers to good works which we were created to do. The former is always condemned while the latter is always commended.

I responded to your point that Jesus only died for past sins. As sin is the transgression of the law, I would naturally respond to the point you made as I did.
I completely agree, works are commended

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I responded to your point that Jesus only died for past sins. As sin is the transgression of the law, I would naturally respond to the point you made as I did.
I completely agree, works are commended

They sure are. It is a part of their entering into the joy of his Lord.

"His lord said unto him, Well done, thou good and faithful servant: thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord." (Matthew 25:21).​

Whereas the unprofitable servant did not enter the joy of his Lord but he was cast into outer darkness where there was weeping and gnashing of teeth.

"And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth." (Matthew 25:30).​

 

[Saint Steven]

And I replied with an answer to explain.
If you do not accept the explanation with God's Word, I cannot help that.

Right, it's not your opinion, it's "God's Word". End of discussion then? I mean it's not as if you could be wrong... ???

 

[Oldmantook]

On the contrary. I'm not the one diminishing the Atonement.

The Atonement requires belief to obtain it initially, but after that, there is nothing we can do to change the work that Christ has done for us. How would your lack of works diminish the completed work of Christ on the cross? Not possible.

You have simple ignored Heb 5:9 that plainly states obedience is required for eternal life. You also ignore James 2:24 which plainly states that we are JUSTIFIED BY WORKS and NOT faith alone Therefore please feel free to continue to pick and choose which scriptures you prefer to believe and which ones you choose to disregard.

 

[Saint Steven]

But the 10 commandments were replaced by similar commandments by Jesus and His followers (i.e. 9 out of the 10 have been repeated with no Sabbath command). Jesus and some of His followers warned us in NT Scripture that if we were to break these laws, there will be dire consequences to our souls in the afterlife (See: Matthew 5:28-30, Matthew 6:15, Matthew 12:37, Matthew 25:31-46, 1 Corinthians 6:9-10, Galatians 5:19-21, 1 John 3:15, Revelation 21:8).

You lost the Sabbath? How careless of you. LGW will help you find it. He's real helpful that way.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Right, it's not your opinion, it's "God's Word". End of discussion then? I mean it's not as if you could be wrong... ???

Your not answering the question.
By your not answering the question it suggests that you may believe that a believer could mow down a crowd of people with a submachine gun and still be saved while doing so. I sure hope that is not the case.

 

[Oldmantook]

I responded to your point that Jesus only died for past sins. As sin is the transgression of the law, I would naturally respond to the point you made as I did.
I completely agree, works are commended

So do you agree that when discussing this subject, it is imperative to distinguish between works of the Law and works done in our own flesh/strength which account for nothing and good works done out of obedience to God which demonstrate that we are truly of the faith?

 

[Bible Highlighter]

You lost the Sabbath? How careless of you. LGW will help you find it. He's real helpful that way.

I didn't write God's Word. God did. If you have an issue of God changing the Law (See Hebrews 7:12), then take it up with Him. Anyways, if you were to read a little more carefully your New Testament, you would discover that the Sabbath is is clearly no longer in effect in the New Testament (See Colossians 2:14, and Colossians 2:16-17 and Romans 14:5).

Just hover your cursor over the verses to check them out.

 

[Saint Steven]

Mat 24:13
“But the one who endures to the end, he will be saved.

There is somewhat mixed language in the bible (I certainly wasn't about to quote every reference of "saved") but the above verse shows us salvation is an event to come at the end. Other verses use language that it is something we can obtain now but the question is what are we saved from?

Rom 5:9
Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from the wrath of God through Him.

again the language is "we shall be saved from..." salvation here is from the wrath of God that is to come not the wrath of God for the here and now.

That's a common misuse of Matt.24 which is about the end times scenario. (not salvation)

 

[daydreamer40]

So do you agree that when discussing this subject, it is imperative to distinguish between works of the Law and works done in our own flesh/strength which account for nothing and good works done out of obedience to God which demonstrate that we are truly of the faith?

Well I can only repeat, if Jesus only died for past sins, the believer must live under the law, and Paul is adamant they do not. Which type of good works do you think God would prefer? Works done out of love and gratitude for a free salvation, or works done with the view they will better enable you to enter heaven?

 

[Saint Steven]

You have simple ignored Heb 5:9 that plainly states obedience is required for eternal life. You also ignore James 2:24 which plainly states that we are JUSTIFIED BY WORKS and NOT faith alone Therefore please feel free to continue to pick and choose which scriptures you prefer to believe and which ones you choose to disregard.

If you are saved by your works, can you really be saved? If you could pay your own way, why did Christ have to die?

 

[Bible Highlighter]

That's a common misuse of Matt.24 which is about the end times scenario. (not salvation)

However, God is not a respecter of persons (See Romans 2:11). God is going to judge every man according to his deeds, too (See Romans 2:6).

 

[daydreamer40]

If you are saved by your works, can you really be saved? If you could pay your own way, why did Christ have to die?

How many good works must one do to be sure of entering Heaven? Does anyone know?

 

[Saint Steven]

Your not answering the question.
By your not answering the question it suggests that you may believe that a believer could mow down a crowd of people with a submachine gun and still be saved while doing so. I sure hope that is not the case.

Who are you to judge?
Would that be a sin not covered under the Atonement?

 

[Bible Highlighter]

If you are saved by your works, can you really be saved? If you could pay your own way, why did Christ have to die?

You don't know the reason why Christ died? I will give you the reason friend. Christ gave Himself for the church so that He might sanctify them with the Holy Scriptures so that He might present to Himself a church that is without spot, wrinkle, and that they should be holy and without blemish.

Let's read it.

25 "...even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;
26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,
27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish."
(Ephesians 5:25-27).

Christ died for us so that He might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify himself a peculiar people who are zealous of good works.

"Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works." (Titus 2:14).

"And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;" (Hebrews 5:9).

 

[Saint Steven]

However, God is not a respecter of persons (See Romans 2:11). God is going to judge every man according to his deeds, too (See Romans 2:6).

Good luck with that.
Will you be good enough to make it?

There is a better way.

John 5:24
“Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life.

 

[Saint Steven]

How many good works must one do to be sure of entering Heaven? Does anyone know?

Last time I checked Christ was still the only sinless man. But maybe those folks that don't believe in the Atonement have a good chance. … what am I saying?

 

[DamianWarS]

Would "free" be the same as without cost?

certainly salvation can be said as without cost but it can also be said that the things we do contribute to our salvation. Biblically speaking there is a tension between these two things

Mat 25:41-43
“Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’

what could "those on his left" have done differently? Does this fit with the "free" model? Atonement is complete yet it doesn't leave us without task or responsibly.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Who are you to judge?
Would that be a sin not covered under the Atonement?

Do you not judge evil things in this world?
I can say the belief that such a belief is immoral because God has placed it in my heart to know right from wrong. I can point out what is good and what is evil. "Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?" (1 Corinthians 6:3). God would not save a person who is willfully doing evil. You should not need a Bible verse to tell you that. But if you need one, well, here you go:

"For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins," (Hebrews 10:26).

Again, you did not answer my other question:
Do you know what Morality is?

I also have a few other questions:

What is wrong with a sociopath?
Do you feel it is right for a diplomat to murder, rape, and or abuse children under the diplomatic immunity laws?