Do "works of righteousness" declare the Atonement to be incomplete?

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daydreamer40

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Last time I checked Christ was still the only sinless man. But maybe those folks that don't believe in the Atonement have a good chance. … what am I saying?
Well I did read a comment from one person who stated we(or he ) can be as perfect as our Father in heaven.
 
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Good luck with that.
Will you be good enough to make it?

There is a better way.

John 5:24
“Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life.

I sure hope so. For we are told to work out your salvation with fear and trembling (Philippians 2:12). In your belief, you really don't have to do that. So this verse is just either ignored it is changed in some way to say something else.
 
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Saint Steven

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You don't know the reason why Christ died? I will give you the reason friend. Christ gave Himself for the church so that He might sanctify them with the Holy Scriptures so that He might present to Himself a church that is without spot, wrinkle, and that they should be holy and without blemish.

Let's read it.

25 "...even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;
26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,
27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish."
(Ephesians 5:25-27).

Christ died for us so that He might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify himself a peculiar people who are zealous of good works.

"Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works." (Titus 2:14).

"And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;" (Hebrews 5:9).
The Atonement isn't for everyone.
If you want to work for your salvation, have at it.
How will you know when you earned it? Can you ever do enough?
Why would you pay and pay when Christ already paid it in full?
 
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Good luck with that.
Will you be good enough to make it?

There is a better way.

John 5:24
“Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life.

When Jesus says "hears my word," He is talking about obeying His Word; Also see John 8:47.

"He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day." (John 12:48).

What words of Jesus that you may not receive can possibly judge you on the last day according to John 12:48?

Lets check out the words of Jesus to find out.

We find that Jesus says that if we look upon a woman in lust, our whole body can be cast into hellfire.

28 "But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.
29 And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.
30 And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell." (Matthew 5:28-30).

We find that Jesus says if we do not forgive, we will not be forgiven.

"But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses." (Matthew 6:15).

"And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth." (Matthew 25:30).

"Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven." (Matthew 7:21).

What is God's will?
"God's will is for you to be holy, so stay away from all sexual sin." (1 Thessalonians 4:3) (NLT).
 
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The Atonement isn't for everyone.
If you want to work for your salvation, have at it.
How will you know when you earned it? Can you ever do enough?
Why would you pay and pay when Christ already paid it in full?

The atonement goes hand in hand with obedience (See Hebrews 5:9). Ever read the faith chapter lately? See Hebrews 11. Belief is always followed by good works and not evil works. Also, 1 John 1:7 says walk in the light (Which means we are to abide in God and keep His commandments) and the blood of Jesus Christ will cleanse us of all sin. Are you walking in the light? Please take note that 1 John 2 talks about how loving your brother means we abide in the light and hating our brother means we abide in darkness. Romans 13:8-9 talks about how loving your brother is the equivalent of the Moral Law (like: Do not murder, do not steal, do not covet, etc.).
 
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Saint Steven

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and what of Rom 5:9 or did you miss the last part?
So you agree that "the one who stands firm to the end will be saved" is a common misuse of Matt.24 ? -- Very good. Progress at last.

This works with the Atonement just fine. (justified by his blood) not our works.

Romans 5:9
Since we have now been justified by his blood, how much more shall we be saved from God’s wrath through him!
 
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Saint Steven

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certainly salvation can be said as without cost but it can also be said that the things we do contribute to our salvation. Biblically speaking there is a tension between these two things

Mat 25:41-43
“Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’

what could "those on his left" have done differently? Does this fit with the "free" model? Atonement is complete yet it doesn't leave us without task or responsibly.
If you are planning to be saved by your own works, good luck with that. There is a better way. Can you guess?
 
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The Atonement isn't for everyone.
If you want to work for your salvation, have at it.
How will you know when you earned it? Can you ever do enough?
Why would you pay and pay when Christ already paid it in full?

You are also not really explaining any of the verses I put forth, either. Please go back and read Ephesians 5:25-27 and Titus 2:14 to see the reason why Christ died for us. Also, re-read Hebrews 5:9 a couple of times, too.
 
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Saint Steven

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I sure hope so. For we are told to work out your salvation with fear and trembling (Philippians 2:12). In your belief, you really don't have to do that. So this verse is just either ignored it is changed in some way to say something else.
It's up to you. If you want "fear and trembling", then it is fear and trembling that you shall have.
 
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If you are planning to be saved by your own works, good luck with that. There is a better way. Can you guess?

It is not a better way. It is turning God's grace into a license for immorality that Jude 1:4 warns us about. It is a sociopathic kind of belief to say that we can murder and still be saved while doing so. You have to shut off your moral compass in order to make that kind of plan of salvation to work.
 
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It's up to you. If you want "fear and trembling", then it is fear and trembling that you shall have.

We are told to work out our salvation with fear and trembling. That kind of statement does not make any sense with your kind of belief. Do you honestly think Paul was saying this to unsaved believers so as to mock them?
 
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The atonement goes hand in hand with obedience (See Hebrews 5:9). Ever read the faith chapter lately? See Hebrews 11. Belief is always followed by good works and not evil works. Also, 1 John 1:7 says walk in the light (Which means we are to abide in God and keep His commandments) and the blood of Jesus Christ will cleanse us of all sin. Are you walking in the light? Please take note that 1 John 2 talks about how loving your brother means we abide in the light and hating our brother means we abide in darkness. Romans 13:8-9 talks about how loving your brother is the equivalent of the Moral Law (like: Do not murder, do not steal, do not covet, etc.).
You should try that at a restaurant.
After your meal, go pay the cashier and then ask them how many dishes you need to wash to pay for it. Please take a picture with your phone. I want to see the look on their faces.
 
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It is not a better way. It is turning God's grace into a license for immorality that Jude 1:4 warns us about. It is a sociopathic kind of belief to say that we can murder and still be saved while doing so. You have to shut off your moral compass in order to make that kind of plan of salvation to work.
All I am saying is there is nothing we can do to diminish the completeness of the Atonement.
 
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We are told to work out our salvation with fear and trembling. That kind of statement does not make any sense with your kind of belief. Do you honestly think Paul was saying this to unsaved believers so as to mock them?
Let's call it a day. You won't convince me and I won't convince you.
 
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You should try that at a restaurant.
After your meal, go pay the cashier and then ask them how many dishes you need to wash to pay for it. Please take a picture with your phone. I want to see the look on their faces.

Now you are speaking gibberish non-sense. No real world example actually supports doing evil with one being good or right with God. Life teaches us that if you do evil, there is a price to pay for that. I know, I know. You think Jesus pays your price for a believer to even do future evils. But that is not how it works. If a man pays the debt of a criminal to be set free, that does not mean he can commit more crimes without him being thrown back into prison. You are thinking in terms of immoral diplomatic immunity. You must accept that it is morally okay that a diplomat can murder, rape, and abuse children because the diplomatic immunity laws are protecting him. It's okay because some law says it is okay. But if he is doing evil by some law, that is not really good now is it?
 
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Now you are speaking gibberish non-sense. No real world example actually supports doing evil with one being good or right with God. Life teaches us that if you do evil, there is a price to pay for that. I know, I know. You think Jesus pays your price for a believer to even do future evils. But that is not how it works. If a man pays the debt of a criminal to be set free, that does not mean he can commit more crimes and be thrown back into prison. You are thinking in terms of diplomatic immunity. You must accept that it is morally okay that a diplomat can murder, rape, and abuse children because the diplomatic immunity laws are protecting him. It's okay because some law says it is okay. But if he is doing evil by some law, that is not really good now is it?
Again. All I am saying is there is nothing we can do to diminish the completeness of the Atonement.
 
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If you are planning to be saved by your own works, good luck with that. There is a better way. Can you guess?
the problem with "salvation by faith" vs "salvation by works" discussion is everyone puts these in a vacuum and only consider the scripture that proves their point while ignoring the rest. It's not a game of winning and losing. An honest reflection of scripture shows a tension that you seem to refuse to acknowledge. faith is not an abstraction and there is an intrinsic connection between the things we believe and the things we do that cannot be separated.
 
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the problem with "salvation by faith" vs "salvation by works" discussion is everyone puts these in a vacuum and only consider the scripture that proves their point while ignoring the rest. It's not a game of winning and losing. An honest reflection of scripture shows a tension that you seem to refuse to acknowledge. faith is not an abstraction and there is an intrinsic connection between the things we believe and the things we do that cannot be separated.
Where does that leave you?

The Atonement is not enough and you cannot be saved by your own efforts. Now what?
 
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Let's call it a day. You won't convince me and I won't convince you.

A believer has to be born again in order to even see the Kingdom of God.

Jesus answered and said to him, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.” (John 3:3) (NKJV).

A born again believer understands that they have to "do the will of the Father" in order to enter the Kingdom. This kind of believer is able to see that.

“Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. (Matthew 7:21) (NKJV).

The will of God is to be holy or our Sanctification (See 1 Thessalonians 4:3).

"And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;" (Hebrews 5:9).
 
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