Is there proof God exist?

[AV1611VET]

To me it is like this. Lets talk about politics. Lets say that I am extremely right wing, which I am not. Lets say that you are completely left wing. Some people are so set in their ways that if anyone says something that oppossess their beliefs they dig themselves deeper into their beliefs. They are hardened in their position and no matter what you do or say they will not let go. Like when you tell a child to do something and they say no. Sometimes the only way to get them to move is to pick them up and move them. God knows how to get us to move. He knows are thoughts and intentions. He can use bad for good.

Good analogy!

 

[Love &Forgiveness]

I think what some can't understand is the fact that God hardened Pharaoh's heart.

What you're talking about is people hardening their own hearts.

We do know that Pharaoh also hardened his heart as well.

Exodus 8:32 And Pharaoh hardened his heart at this time also, neither would he let the people go.

1 Samuel 6:6 Wherefore then do ye harden your hearts, as the Egyptians and Pharaoh hardened their hearts? when he had wrought wonderfully among them, did they not let the people go, and they departed?

But the idea of God facilitating it for the sake of the Jews' existence is lost on them.

Don't we all realize how Kind and Gracious God has been to us? God is Kind and Gracious to give us time to confess our sin and turn to Him. God wants you to be Saved. He gives us time to turn from sin to Him.

 

[AV1611VET]

An omnipotent, omniscient god shouldn't have to.

Should He leave bad for bad then?

Genesis 50:20 But as for you, ye thought evil against me; but God meant it unto good, to bring to pass, as it is this day, to save much people alive.

 

[Zoness]

It seems to me, that if evil is blamed on free will, then god made an extreme error in allowing humanity to have free will in the first place.

 

[Love &Forgiveness]

An omnipotent, omniscient god shouldn't have to.

We can never fully understand God's Ways. It is like trying to understand the whole universe.

 

[Love &Forgiveness]

Should He leave bad for bad then?

Genesis 50:20 But as for you, ye thought evil against me; but God meant it unto good, to bring to pass, as it is this day, to save much people alive.

Additional God has the devil on a leash so to speak.

 

[Zoness]

We can never fully understand God's Ways. It is like trying to understand the whole universe.

This always sounded like an excuse to me. An excuse for literally anything to happen because well, it's "God's ways". I've never found that to be terribly satisfying.

 

[AV1611VET]

Don't we all realize how Kind and Gracious God has been to us? God is Kind and Gracious to give us time to confess our sin and turn to Him. God wants you to be Saved. He gives us time to turn from sin to Him.

I totally agree.

That's the argument I use with those who ask me why God didn't just wink everyone out of existence, instead of sending a flood to drown them all.

Had He done that, they would not have had time to repent; and they would all be in Hell.

(The unsaved ones, that is.)

 

[Zoness]

I totally agree.

That's the argument I use with those who ask me why God didn't just wink everyone out of existence, instead of sending a flood to drown them all.

Had He done that, they would not have had time to repent; and they would all be in Hell.

(The unsaved ones, that is.)

Why do people have to be in hell, though? I'd rather not exist if he'll is even an option. It would be cruel to bring people into the world knowing they night even have a chance of ending up there. As I said in the other thread, God's love is quite conditional on doctrinal acceptance and conformity.

 

[AV1611VET]

Additional God has the devil on a leash so to speak.

In this dispensation (Grace), one of the jobs of the Holy Spirit is to keep Satanic activity in check until the Rapture.

Pagans and other unbelievers like to beacon the underworld though seances, spells, "innocent" games (D&D, Ouija), and the like, without realizing what they're playing with.

 

[awitch]

Should He leave bad for bad then?

Genesis 50:20 But as for you, ye thought evil against me; but God meant it unto good, to bring to pass, as it is this day, to save much people alive.

If anyone was required to die, it should have been Pharaoh himself, not any children, but even then, I expect an omni-everything god to resolve his problem without death.

 

[Love &Forgiveness]

I totally agree.

That's the argument I use with those who ask me why God didn't just wink everyone out of existence, instead of sending a flood to drown them all.

Had He done that, they would not have had time to repent; and they would all be in Hell.

(The unsaved ones, that is.)

1 Corinthians 1:18-31 NLT
The message of the cross is foolish to those who are headed for destruction! But we who are being saved know it is the very power of God. [19] As the Scriptures say, "I will destroy the wisdom of the wise and discard the intelligence of the intelligent." [20] So where does this leave the philosophers, the scholars, and the world's brilliant debaters? God has made the wisdom of this world look foolish. [21] Since God in his wisdom saw to it that the world would never know him through human wisdom, he has used our foolish preaching to save those who believe. [22] It is foolish to the Jews, who ask for signs from heaven. And it is foolish to the Greeks, who seek human wisdom. [23] So when we preach that Christ was crucified, the Jews are offended and the Gentiles say it's all nonsense. [24] But to those called by God to salvation, both Jews and Gentiles, Christ is the power of God and the wisdom of God. [25] This foolish plan of God is wiser than the wisest of human plans, and God's weakness is stronger than the greatest of human strength. [26] Remember, dear brothers and sisters, that few of you were wise in the world's eyes or powerful or wealthy when God called you. [27] Instead, God chose things the world considers foolish in order to shame those who think they are wise. And he chose things that are powerless to shame those who are powerful. [28] God chose things despised by the world, things counted as nothing at all, and used them to bring to nothing what the world considers important. [29] As a result, no one can ever boast in the presence of God. [30] God has united you with Christ Jesus. For our benefit God made him to be wisdom itself. Christ made us right with God; he made us pure and holy, and he freed us from sin. [31] Therefore, as the Scriptures say, "If you want to boast, boast only about the LORD."

 

[awitch]

Don't we all realize how Kind and Gracious God has been to us?

Planetary genocide by drowning is neither kind nor gracious.

 

[AV1611VET]

Why do people have to be in hell, though?

Because God prepared Hell for ...

Matthew 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

And being a just God, He has to send anyone and everyone there who rebel against Him -- not just His angels.

That's why we call it "a devil's Hell."

 

[Zoness]

Because God prepared Hell for ...

Matthew 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

And being a just God, He has to send anyone and everyone there who rebel against Him -- not just His angels.

That's why we call it "a devil's Hell."

At least we agree that he is not a loving god..

 

[AV1611VET]

Planetary genocide by drowning is neither kind nor gracious.

Actually it is.

 

[AV1611VET]

At least we agree that he is not a loving god..

I can leave this thread if you'd like.

Or we can have a serious and mature discussion.

Your choice.

 

[Zoness]

Actually it is.

We definitely have radically different moral systems. I think genocide is wrong. And here they said pagans are the bad ones lol.

 

[Zoness]

I can leave this thread if you'd like.

Or we can have a serious and mature discussion.

Your choice.

There's nothing loving about torturing people for eternity. Unless we're employing some new theologically twisted meaning of the word love.

 

[Love &Forgiveness]

Planetary genocide by drowning is neither kind nor gracious.

It was too the people that were tormented by those people.