IS IT SIN TO BREAK THE 10 COMMANDMENTS? (Yep!)

[LoveGodsWord]

It appears you are seeing what you want to see even though I showed you the dictionary and the Word of God on this matter.

Good day to you;
No offense, my friend, but I am not going to waste anymore of my time in trying to show you something that you don't want to see.

Blessings and peace to you in the Lord.

Hello Jason,

We should not point people to the teachings of men over the Word of God. For me, he must increase and I must decrease. I only point all to the Word of God because it is there we find the one who loves us that we may love him. I know him and am known by him. All that he shows me I see and must show to all because I am blind. Now I see through his eyes and hear through his ears. He tells me it is those that say they see that do not see. These are they that have once known him or do not know him. Who am I that he should choose me out of the world? I am no one but he is all.

If I did not believe him I would not know him. What can I do without him? He is love and now I love. I follow him now because I love him who first loved me. I do not judge you but His Word will judge us because they are there for all to see. All are welcome to see and hear God's Word, however many are called but few are chosen.

Now the Spirit speaks expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils but His Word promises to deliver us and it is here we must find safety.

We ought to obey God rather than man. God is love and he that dwells in love dwells in God

May God help you as you prayerfully seek him through his WORD

 

[Bible Highlighter]

2 Timothy 3:1-9 does not make sense in a sin and still be saved type belief. For 2 Timothy 3:1-9 is not about how we can sin and still be saved, but it is about how there are those who have a form of godliness, but they deny the power thereof. Meaning, they deny the power that God can help them to overcome sin in their life, and so they have a form of godliness. They appear to be holy, but their actions prove otherwise. Jesus said a good tree cannot bring forth bad fruit and a bad tree cannot bring forth good fruit. Jesus is the tree and we are the branches and the fruit are the works of the Lord working through us. So we have to abide in the Lord and the good works. It's the proof in the pudding that we know the Lord (See 1 John 2:3-4).

 

[LoveGodsWord]

2 Timothy 3:1-9 does not make sense in a sin and still be saved type belief. For 2 Timothy 3:1-9 is not about how we can sin and still be saved, but it is about how there are those who have a form of godliness, but they deny the power thereof. Meaning, they deny the power that God can help them to overcome sin in their life, and so they have a form of godliness. They appear to be holy, but their actions prove otherwise. Jesus said a good tree cannot bring forth bad fruit and a bad tree cannot bring forth good fruit. Jesus is the tree and we are the branches and the fruit are the works of the Lord working through us. So we have to abide in the Lord and the good works. It's the proof in the pudding that we know the Lord (See 1 John 2:3-4).

Jason, what are you replying to and why have you posted the above?

 

[LoveGodsWord]

It appears you are seeing what you want to see even though I showed you the dictionary and the Word of God on this matter.

So Jason you were not posted the Websters bible dictionary meaning of the word MORAL?
Are you not seeing only what you want to see? (see post # 1031 linked click me)

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Moving on now.

May God's love shine upon you.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Moving on now.

May God's love shine upon you.

No problem thanks for sharing Jason,

May God help you as you seek him through his WORD.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

It is certainly a sin to break the commandments.

But it is not true that if you only obey the Old Testament, then you will not be saved. Moses was saved. Elijah was saved. Abraham was saved. King David was saved. And they had major sins in their lives ... and furthermore they did not know Christ.

I am not being argumentative. Just offering a simple reminder.

Blessings!!

A simple reminder that is well said. Thanks for sharing gideon.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

It is a sin to break Christ's law, the Torah however is not for us.

What is Christs law and what is it that is in the Torah that is not for you?

 

[DamianWarS]

What is Christs law and what in the Torah is not for you?

there are two lines, one in front of the other, each going the same way. The instruction given is to trace the line in front so you do. The line you draw may look the same as the one behind but if you followed the instruction you did not trace that line, you traced the one in front. It is arbitrary to point out the similarities of the lines in reference to which one you traced nor does it change the result if you demand that we need to trace the first line in order to trace the second. This is not an abstract question and there can only be one right answer. The instruction is to trace the line in front and there is no other option. So which line did you trace?

 

[LoveGodsWord]

there are two lines, one in front of the other, each going the same way. The instruction given is to trace the line in front so you do. The line you draw may look the same as the one behind but if you followed the instruction you did not trace that line, you traced the one in front. It is arbitrary to point out the similarities of the lines in reference to which one you traced nor does it change the result if you demand that we need to trace the first line in order to trace the second. This is not an abstract question and there can only be one right answer. The instruction is to trace the line in front and there is no other option. So which line did you trace?

If you are trying to trace a line when you cannot find the line your suppose to trace how can you trace the line?

 

[DamianWarS]

If you are trying to trace a line when you cannot find the line your suppose to trace how can you trace the line?

You're speaking of God's law. The Torah and Christ's law are both inherited from God's law but they are contextualized to their audience so appear different even if their deeper meanings are the same This is the same with the garden of eden which for the sake of argument we will call Garden law. Garden law is no different and it is inherited from God's law but it speaks to Adam in his context not to the Jews in their context and not to us in our context and it was for Adam to follow not us. When I follow Christ's law I am following God's law but I do no follow Garden law. It's not for me so I don't follow it.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

You're speaking of God's law. The Torah and Christ's law are both inherited from God's law but they are contextualized to their audience so appear different even if their deeper meanings are the same This is the same with the garden of eden which for the sake of argument we will call Garden law. Garden law is no different and it is inherited from God's law but it speaks to Adam in his context not to the Jews in their context and not to us in our context and it was for Adam to follow not us. When I follow Christ's law I am following God's law but I do no follow Garden law. It's not for me so I don't follow it.

Hi Damian, thanks for your reply. How can you separate God's LAW (10 commandments) from LOVE when the 10 Commandments are the very expression of what LOVE is? If your lamp goes out how can you find you way when the road is dark and narrow? Also if your mirror is lost or broken how do you know who you are? If someone does not know they are sick do they have need of a physician? We are told in the last days many will have a form of Godliness but will deny the power thereof, will they be in God's kingdom?

 

[DamianWarS]

Hi Damian, thanks for your reply. How can you separate God's LAW (10 commandments) from LOVE when they are the very expression of what LOVE is? If your lamp goes out how can you find you way when the road is dark and narrow? Also if your mirror is lost or broken how do you know who you are? If someone does not know they are sick do they have need of a physician? We are told in the last days many will have a form of Godliness but will deny the power thereof, will they be in God's kingdom?

how do you come to this conclusion that God's law and the 10 Commandments mean the exact same thing?

 

[LoveGodsWord]

how do you come to this conclusion that God's law and the 10 Commandments mean the exact same thing?

Hello Damian nice to see you.

There are many laws that make up the Torah. The within scripture and chapter context determines what laws are being discussed. Not all laws are the same they have different roles and purposes within the Torah.

Generally however there are two main sets of laws that make up the OLD COVENANT. These include God's LAW (10 commandments). It is called God's LAW or the 10 Commandment, because he was the one alone who made it and commanded Moses to keep in separated from the book of the law in the Ark of the Covenant (Nehemiah 10:29; Deuteronomy 10:4-5; Deuteronomy 31:25-26; Deuteronomy 4:13; Exodus 34:28).

God's eternal law (10 commandments) was to give us the knowledge of GOOD and EVIL; SIN and RIGHTOUESNESS *Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4; Psalms 119:172.

While the Shadow laws from the MOSAIC BOOK of the law or COVENANT were for when the God's LAW was broken. These were the laws for remission of sin [FORGIVENESS] sin offerings and animal sacrifices to do with the Sanctuary and Levitical Piresthood [ceremonial laws and ordinances]. Deuteronomy 31:9; Exodus 24:3-4; Deuteronomy 31:24-27; Colossians 2:14-17).

God not only commanded Moses to keep the 10 Commandments separated from the Mosaic book of the law in the Ark of the Covenant (Deuteronomy 10:5; 31:25-26 nothing was to be added to it (Deuteronomy 4:1-2; Deuteronomy 5:22).

May God bless you as you seek him through his Word.

 

[DamianWarS]

Hello Damian nice to see you.

There are many laws that make up the Torah. The within scripture and chapter context determines what laws are being discussed. Not all laws are the same they have different roles and purposes within the Torah.

Generally however there are two main sets of laws that make up the OLD COVENANT. These include God's LAW (10 commandments). It is called God's LAW or the 10 Commandment, because he was the one alone who made it and commanded Moses to keep in separated from the book of the law in the Ark of the Covenant (Nehemiah 10:29; Deuteronomy 10:4-5; Deuteronomy 31:25-26; Deuteronomy 4:13; Exodus 34:28).

God's eternal law (10 commandments) was to give us the knowledge of GOOD and EVIL; SIN and RIGHTOUESNESS *Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4; Psalms 119:172.

While the Shadow laws from the MOSAIC BOOK of the law or COVENANT were for when the God's LAW was broken. These were the laws for remission of sin [FORGIVENESS] sin offerings and animal sacrifices to do with the Sanctuary and Levitical Piresthood [ceremonial laws and ordinances]. Deuteronomy 31:9; Exodus 24:3-4; Deuteronomy 31:24-27; Colossians 2:14-17).

God not only commanded Moses to keep the 10 Commandments separated from the Mosaic book of the law in the Ark of the Covenant (Deuteronomy 10:5; 31:25-26 nothing was to be added to it (Deuteronomy 4:1-2; Deuteronomy 5:22).

May God bless you as you seek him through his Word.

you never answered my question. what scripture support do you have to call the 10 commandments "God's law" or "God's eternal law"? Nehemiah 10:29 seems to be the best one simply because it actually says "God's law" but what support do you have that Nehemiah is talking specifically about the 10 commandments? Nehemiah says God's law and references the law that was given to Moses. Should this not mean at least more broadly the Mosaic law and not exclusively the the 10 commandments? How would Nehemiah's audience understand the God's law given to Moses? Would they think the entire Mosaic law or would they think only the 10 commandments?

 

[LoveGodsWord]

you never answered my question. what scripture support do you have to call the 10 commandments "God's law" or "God's eternal law"? Nehemiah 10:29 seems to be the best one simply because it actually says "God's law" but what support do you have that Nehemiah is talking specifically about the 10 commandments? Nehemiah says God's law and references the law that was given to Moses. Should this not mean at least more broadly the Mosaic law and not exclusively the the 10 commandments? How would Nehemiah's audience understand the God's law given to Moses? Would they think the entire Mosaic law or would they think only the 10 commandments?

Actually that is not true your question was answered with God's WORD showing the different uses and laws in the Torah. Which law the scriptures are referring to is determined by the within scripture and chapter content. This was shown in the previous post. You mix up your shadow laws from the MOSAIC BOOK of the COVENANT with God's eternal laws that give us a KNOWLEDGE of GOOD and EVIL; SIN AND RIGHTOUESNESS *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; 1 JOHN 3:4' PSALMS 119:172.

Who made, spoke and wrote the 10 Commandments GOD or MOSES? *EXODUS 32:16; EXODUS 20:1-17
How many commandment are the in God's 10 commandments? (Exodus 34:28; Deuteronomy 4:13; 10:4). Of course the 10 Commandments was given to Moses to give to the people. Nehemiah 10:29; Who gave the tables of stone to Moses after he made them? * EXODUS 31:18. Also, when the word the law is used in scripture it can include all the laws in the Torah it depends on the within scripture and chapter context of use that determines what laws are being referenced.

Under the OLD COVENANT it is both 1. God's LAW (his ownership in making them alone), and the Shadow laws from the 2. MOSAIC BOOK of the law [or COVENANT Exodus 24:7] that collectively made up the OLD COVENANT. Both had a different purpose under the OLD COVENANT.

1. The purpose of Gods LAW (10 Commandments) has the same role that it always has and that is to give us a KNOWLEDGE of GOOD and EVIL; SIN and RIGHTOUESNESS *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; 1 JOHN 3:4; PSALMS 119:172. If anyone broke any of the 10 commandments they committed sin.

2. The purpose of the MOSAIC BOOK OF THE LAW however had a different purpose to God's LAW in that if someone broke God's LAW the shadow laws from the MOSAIC BOOK of the COVENANT gave the laws under the Levitical Priesthood and Sanctuary ceremonial laws and ordinances for the remission of sin [FORGIVNESS through sin offerings].

Under the NEW COVENANT the 10 commandments do not stop being the standard of GOOD and EVIL; SIN AND RIGHTOUESNESS or we would have no knowledge of what sin is. This is what PAUL discusses in ROMANS 3:20 and ROMANS 7:7.

God's 10 commandments are the school master that show us our need of Christ that we might stand before him in faith to recieve God's free gift of love and at the cross behold him who loves us that he might give his life for us that we should be called the sons and daughters of God.

Many do not know what the OLD COVENANT is. They mix up the shadow laws with God's eternal law that give us the knowledge of sin and lead us to the cross. If you do not know the OLD COVENANT is how can you know what the NEW COVENANT is?

May God help you are you seek him through his Word.

 

[DamianWarS]

Actually that is not true your question was answered with God's WORD showing the different uses and laws in the Torah. Which law the scriptures are referring to is determined by the within scripture and chapter content. This was shown in the previous post. You mix up your shadow laws from the MOSAIC BOOK of the COVENANT with God's eternal laws that give us a KNOWLEDGE of GOOD and EVIL; SIN AND RIGHTOUESNESS *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; 1 JOHN 3:4' PSALMS 119:172.

Who made, spoke and wrote the 10 Commandments GOD or MOSES? *EXODUS 32:16; EXODUS 20:1-17
How many commandment are the in God's 10 commandments? (Exodus 34:28; Deuteronomy 4:13; 10:4). Of course the 10 Commandments was given to Moses to give to the people. Nehemiah 10:29; Who gave the tables of stone to Moses after he made them? * EXODUS 31:18. Also, when the word the law is used in scripture it can include all the laws in the Torah it depends on the within scripture and chapter context of use that determines what laws are beinf referenced.

Under the OLD COVENANT it is both 1. God's LAW (his ownership in making them alone), and the Shadow laws from the 2. MOSAIC BOOK of the law [or COVENANT Exodus 24:7] that collectively made up the OLD COVENANT. Both had a different purpose under the OLD COVENANT.

1. The purpose of Gods LAW (10 Commandments) has the same role that it always has and that is to give us a KNOWLEDGE of GOOD and EVIL; SIN and RIGHTOUESNESS *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; 1 JOHN 3:4; PSALMS 119:172. If anyone broke any of the 10 commandments they committed sin.

2. The purpose of the MOSAIC BOOK OF THE LAW however had a different purpose to God's LAW in that if someone broke God's LAW the shadow laws from the MOSAIC BOOK of the COVENANT gave the laws under the Levitical Priesthood and Sanctuary ceremonial laws and ordinances for the remission of sin [FORGIVNESS through sin offerings].

Under the NEW COVENANT the 10 commandments do not stop being the standard of GOOD and EVIL; SIN AND RIGHTOUESNESS. They are the school master that show us our need of Christ that we might stand before him in faith to recieve God's free gift of love and at the cross behold him who loves us that he might give his life for us that we should be called the sons and daughters of God.

Many do not know what the OLD COVENANT is. They mix up their shadow laws with God's eternal law that give us the knowledge of sin and lead us to the cross. If you do not know the OLD COVENANT is how can you know what the NEW COVENANT is?

May God help you are you seek him through his Word.

Moses received the entire law from God, not just the 10 commandments. You fail to give sufficient evidence that the term "God's Law" is synonymous with the 10 commandments and the 10 commandments only. The expression "law written in their hearts" cannot represent the 10 commandments because someone who does not know the law may come to conclusions not to steal or murder but would not come to conclusions to keep the sabbath which was under penalty of death. God's law given to those without knowledge of the law cannot be the 10 commandments.

 

[Neogaia777]

The Ten Commandments, and the Two, which are the same, cover "everything"... every kind of evil wickedness and sin... and tries to, (or many think it was meant to), try and stop it (sin) and nip it in the bud before it even begins...

I am however not talking about the letter of the law, but it's Spirit and the Spirit of it and behind it, that Spirits heart in them, the commands/commandments...

The Spirit of the law is even more demanding, yea, even much more demanding, than the letter of it is (on the surface)...

The letter fails with most to express it's (the Law's) Spirit behind it/them (laws/commands)...

God Bless!

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Hi Damian, some comments for your consideration below (look at the scriptures for yourself)

Moses received the entire law from God, not just the 10 commandments.

Indeed but only God made the 10 commandments and spoke them to his people and wrote them on two tables of stone *EXODUS 32:16; EXODUS 20:1-17 and kept them separated from the SHADOW laws written in the MOSAIC BOOK of the law *EXODUS 24:7. They were also to be kept separated in the ARK of the COVENANT that housed the OLD COVENANT *DEUTERONOMY 10:4-5; DEUTERONOMY 31:26.

You fail to give sufficient evidence that the term "God's Law" is synonymous with the 10 commandments and the 10 commandments only.

I am not sure why your trying to make a strawman argument I have never claimed or said. Where did I ever say that God's LAW is in reference to only the 10 commandments? I have only ever said that God's LAW is such because he has complete ownership of the 10 commandments as he was the sole owner and creator of them. God spoke them to mankind, they are his work alone and God wrote them on two tables of stone *EXODUS 32:16. Are you trying to argue that the 10 Commandments are not God's LAW?

The expression "law written in their hearts" cannot represent the 10 commandments because someone who does not know the law may come to conclusions not to steal or murder but would not come to conclusions to keep the sabbath which was under penalty of death. God's law given to those without knowledge of the law cannot be the 10 commandments.

LOVE is written in the heart through FAITH and LOVE is the fulfilling of God's LAW (10 Commandments) in those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW his word. Before they are written on the heart through LOVE in the Spirit, they are written on Stone to guide us to the cross *GALATIANS 3:22-25; ROMANS 8:1-4; GALATIANS 5:16; HEBREWS 8:10-12.

ROMANS 13:8-10
[8], Owe no man anything, but to love one another: for he that loves another has fulfilled the law. [9], For this, You shall not commit adultery, You shall not kill, You shall not steal, You shall not bear false witness, You shall not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is summed up in this saying, namely, You shall love your neighbor as yourself. [10], Love works no ill to his neighbor: therefore, love is the fulfilling [DOING] of the law.

Notice what PAUL says here? LOVE is fulfilling [doing] God's Commandments. God's Commandments or duty towards your neighbor is summed up as you shall LOVE your neighbor as yourself v9. [On these two commandments hang ALL THE LAW and the prophets Matthew 22:40].

OBEDIENCE to GOD's LAW (10 Commandments) are the very expression of what LOVE is. You cannot separate the 10 Commandments from LOVE because as PAUL says LOVE is the fulfilling [doing of establishing] of them *ROMANS 3:31.

Hope this helps

 

[DamianWarS]

Where did I ever say that God's LAW is in reference to only the 10 commandments?

you seem to enjoy putting in parenthesis "(10 Commandments)" every time you say "God's law". It's hard not to interpret a strong indication how much you favour the 10 Commandment exclusive the other commandments not inclusive when you say God's law and which other commandments do you include when you say "God's law" because you're only specific with the 10 Commandments.

The 10 Commandments are the torah and if you take one you take the other. They are not separated. The Torah inherits the traits of God's law and it is God's law but it is contextualized to a specific context. The context of the 10 commandments are the entire torah and the Israelites post-exodus.

Did not God tell Adam "God's law" too? Do we keep the adamic covenant as well? of course not, because it's not for us and it would be foolish to try and keep it. We keep Christ's law which is God's contextualized law for us in this time. It's all God's law but that doesn't mean it should all be evaluated the same way.

Jesus even is really vague with the sermon on the mount saying "You have heard that it was said to those of old..." when he references aspects of the 10 Commandments. He mysteriously doesn't say the 10 commandments even though it's implicit and everyone knew what he was talking about. However he chooses language that references it as something distant and out of reach, like a shadow. He is not trying to reaffirm the 10 Commandments here or establish them as bridging the covenants but rather establishing the new covenant relationship and only looking at the old as a shadow to the new. As we follow Christ's words what we follow is this new covenant and we do not follow "those of old"