Intelligent Design isn’t intelligent

[Brightmoon]

As usual this is a screenshot as my phone won’t let me link

 

[pat34lee]

I hope that you remember sin is in the equation.
The universe and everything in it are as fallen as man.
That means ~4000 years (since the flood) of genetic
damage, mutation, sickness and entropy in general.

The fact that we still live at all is a testimony to the
power of our creator and the perfection of his design.

If you think you could design anything better than
God, then put in for his job. I don't think you've got
the requirements, though; beginning with infinite
knowledge or perfect wisdom.

 

[joinfree]

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As usual this is a screenshot as my phone won’t let me link

Isn't God Intelligent? How low then is God's IQ?

 

[Neogaia777]

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How do you know those anomalies are not by or are a part of the design we just do not fully understand yet...?

God Bless!

 

[Silmarien]

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I agree with this entirely, but I'm wondering what your theological solution to this problem is. I assume you're a theistic evolutionist also, but how precisely do you conceive of that working? Is God absent from the picture entirely, and if so, why?

There is some really good theology on the evolutionary side--I'm interested in John Haught's work--and I think when attacking ID on theological grounds (which is what calling it unintelligent is), we do have to present an alternative account that works theologically. You can't really reconcile Christianity in particular with an absent deistic God.

 

[Brightmoon]

You know I’ve always accepted common descent, even as a child , and even that was based on physical evidence. ( those forearm bones of modern land vertebrates were telling) These issues aren’t coming up for me because what I felt was so real and loving. To me God created the universe and I don’t care what the Bible says about it.

I spent my teen years as an atheist ( not because of evolution but because of my toxic family) but I was so scared and lost in my 20s and God let me know that S/He was there.
Sometimes dealing with the ignorant superstitious nonsense that creationists (and other fundies )continually tell me makes me want to throw faith under the bus and I have to remind myself what God actually felt like.

 

[Brightmoon]

I hope that you remember sin is in the equation.
The universe and everything in it are as fallen as man.
That means ~4000 years (since the flood) of genetic
damage, mutation, sickness and entropy in general.

The fact that we still live at all is a testimony to the
power of our creator and the perfection of his design.

If you think you could design anything better than
God, then put in for his job. I don't think you've got
the requirements, though; beginning with infinite
knowledge or perfect wisdom.

. I’d always accepted common descent and plate tectonics even as a child of 10. And that was based on physical evidence ! ( plate tectonics was a new science when I was a kid in the 1960s)I found out how old the earth was in jr high( middle school) and and my then science teacher mistook the age of the oldest rock for the age of the earth. It fascinated me then and still does .

 

[Petros2015]

To me God created the universe and I don’t care what the Bible says about it.

It is interesting to me that we seem to be the only ones capable of appreciating it (on a deeper level) than the rest of the created animals. If we choose to, we can also choose to despise it. It's taken me 40 years but I think it's worth appreciating, imperfections and all.

 

[xianghua]

How do you know those anomalies are not by or are a part of the design we just do not fully understand yet...?

indeed, like this one about the retina:

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/heres-why-your-eyes-seem-be-wired-backward-180954729/

https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg20627594-000-evolution-gave-flawed-eye-better-vision

"IT LOOKS wrong, but the strange, “backwards” structure of the vertebrate retina actually improves vision."

 

[tas8831]

I hope that you remember sin is in the equation.
The universe and everything in it are as fallen as man.

This seems like question begging.

That means ~4000 years (since the flood) of genetic
damage, mutation, sickness and entropy in general.

Are you saying that there was no mutation before this 'fall', and that the various polymerases with error correction mechanisms were put in place by God after we were cursed to mutate for all time?

 

[jayem]

Error

 

[Justatruthseeker]

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Well just at first glance I noticed the Appendix. That is such an old falsified belief that it is a vestigial organ it's not even funny anymore...

granted, people once didn't understand it's function, but that's no excuse in this modern age of elightenment....

Scientists discover true function of appendix organ

Your Appendix Might Serve an Important Biological Function After All

So i expect the other 95 hogwash propaganda claims are based upon the same outdated or undiscovered functions...

[Staff edit].

 

[Brightmoon]

The appendix is a vestigial cecum . If it has other uses that’s not really relevant. Some vestigial organs do have other uses . The parathyroid glands are vestigial gills and like gills they’ve retained that blood calcium level regulation function.

 

[Justatruthseeker]

Whatever you need to tell yourself to keep your outdated views...... But you didn't bother to read what your fellow evolutionists say.....

https://www.sciencealert.com/your-appendix-might-serve-an-important-biological-function-after-all-2

"They found that the organ has evolved at least 29 times - possibly as many as 41 times - throughout mammalian evolution, and has only been lost a maximum of 12 times.

"This statistically strong evidence that the appearance of the appendix is significantly more probable than its loss suggests a selective value for this structure," the team reports.

"Thus, we can confidently reject the hypothesis that the appendix is a vestigial structure with little adaptive value or function among mammals."

 

[Brightmoon]

I’m aware that the appendix is a vestigial cecum.

 

[theQuincunx5]

How do you know those anomalies are not by or are a part of the design we just do not fully understand yet...?

God Bless!

Are you Wilhelm Gottfried Leibniz???? This sounds like the "best of all possible worlds" argument!

 

[pat34lee]

This seems like question begging.

Are you saying that there was no mutation before this 'fall', and that the various polymerases with error correction mechanisms were put in place by God after we were cursed to mutate for all time?

No, just question asking.

Living beings were created perfectly. There were no mutations,
no sickness or disease before sin. But our fall didn't surprise God.
He was prepared for every problem before creation began.

 

[pat34lee]

The appendix is a vestigial cecum . If it has other uses that’s not really relevant. Some vestigial organs do have other uses . The parathyroid glands are vestigial gills and like gills they’ve retained that blood calcium level regulation function.

You can live quite well without a few fingers, but
I wouldn't recommend amputating them.

 

[Saint Black]

I hope that you remember sin is in the equation.
The universe and everything in it are as fallen as man.
That means ~4000 years (since the flood) of genetic
damage, mutation, sickness and entropy in general.

The fact that we still live at all is a testimony to the
power of our creator and the perfection of his design.

If you think you could design anything better than
God, then put in for his job. I don't think you've got
the requirements, though; beginning with infinite
knowledge or perfect wisdom.

I disagree on the flood personally, I think it was in reference to whatever killed the dinosaurs. I believe in evolution, but I believe that God created this universe and everything inhabiting it. I also believe his son Jesus Christ gave Himself for our sins.

 

[jayem]

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I'd add the coagulation/complement cascade to the list. The diagram below is actually simplified. The system does work to keep you from bleeding to death after a minor injury, and it helps you fight off infection. But these physiologic pathways are very complicated. New cofactors and interactions are regularly being discovered. Given such complexity, there are many points where things can go wrong. Which is confirmed by the frequency of thrombotic diseases such as stroke, heart attack, deep venous thrombosis, and pulmonary embolism. Contrary to creationist rhetoric, complexity is not evidence for intelligent design. The opposite is true. Intelligent design is characterized by simplicity. An example: While hiking in the woods, you find a stone. It's shape is very irregular. There is no symmetry. Some edges and surfaces are smooth, some are very rough and jagged. It's unbalanced, with more mass at one end than the other. Then you find another stone. This one is perfectly spherical. The surface has a uniform texture. Its mass is balanced--it rolls on the ground without wobbling. In terms of geometry, the 1st rock is much more complex than than the 2nd. But which is more likely to have been purposefully made, and which is more likely to have been shaped by the random forces of nature?