• Welcome to Christian Forums
  1. Welcome to Christian Forums, a forum to discuss Christianity in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

  2. The forums in the Christian Congregations category are now open only to Christian members. Please review our current Faith Groups list for information on which faith groups are considered to be Christian faiths. Christian members please remember to read the Statement of Purpose threads for each forum within Christian Congregations before posting in the forum.

Intelligent Design isn’t intelligent

Discussion in 'Physical & Life Sciences' started by Brightmoon, Sep 16, 2018.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Brightmoon

    Brightmoon Apes and humans are all in family Hominidae.

    +2,049
    United States
    Episcopalian
    Single
    US-Others
    53C77F3B-54E7-4F93-A1FF-71E26D644271.png

    As usual this is a screenshot as my phone won’t let me link
     
    We teamed up with Faith Counseling. Can they help you today?
  2. pat34lee

    pat34lee Messianic

    +2,573
    Messianic
    Single
    I hope that you remember sin is in the equation.
    The universe and everything in it are as fallen as man.
    That means ~4000 years (since the flood) of genetic
    damage, mutation, sickness and entropy in general.

    The fact that we still live at all is a testimony to the
    power of our creator and the perfection of his design.

    If you think you could design anything better than
    God, then put in for his job. I don't think you've got
    the requirements, though; beginning with infinite
    knowledge or perfect wisdom.
     
    • Winner Winner x 2
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Funny Funny x 1
    • List
  3. joinfree

    joinfree Well-Known Member

    981
    +181
    Christian
    Single
    Isn't God Intelligent? How low then is God's IQ?
     
  4. Neogaia777

    Neogaia777 Apprentice Supporter

    +3,237
    Non-Denom
    Celibate
    How do you know those anomalies are not by or are a part of the design we just do not fully understand yet...?

    God Bless!
     
  5. Silmarien

    Silmarien Existentialist

    +3,187
    Spain
    Christian Seeker
    Single
    US-Democrat
    I agree with this entirely, but I'm wondering what your theological solution to this problem is. I assume you're a theistic evolutionist also, but how precisely do you conceive of that working? Is God absent from the picture entirely, and if so, why?

    There is some really good theology on the evolutionary side--I'm interested in John Haught's work--and I think when attacking ID on theological grounds (which is what calling it unintelligent is), we do have to present an alternative account that works theologically. You can't really reconcile Christianity in particular with an absent deistic God.
     
  6. Brightmoon

    Brightmoon Apes and humans are all in family Hominidae.

    +2,049
    United States
    Episcopalian
    Single
    US-Others
    You know I’ve always accepted common descent, even as a child , and even that was based on physical evidence. ( those forearm bones of modern land vertebrates were telling) These issues aren’t coming up for me because what I felt was so real and loving. To me God created the universe and I don’t care what the Bible says about it.

    I spent my teen years as an atheist ( not because of evolution but because of my toxic family) but I was so scared and lost in my 20s and God let me know that S/He was there.
    Sometimes dealing with the ignorant superstitious nonsense that creationists (and other fundies )continually tell me makes me want to throw faith under the bus and I have to remind myself what God actually felt like.
     
    • Like Like x 3
    • Winner Winner x 1
    • List
  7. Brightmoon

    Brightmoon Apes and humans are all in family Hominidae.

    +2,049
    United States
    Episcopalian
    Single
    US-Others
    . I’d always accepted common descent and plate tectonics even as a child of 10. And that was based on physical evidence ! ( plate tectonics was a new science when I was a kid in the 1960s)I found out how old the earth was in jr high( middle school) and and my then science teacher mistook the age of the oldest rock for the age of the earth. It fascinated me then and still does .
     
  8. Petros2015

    Petros2015 Well-Known Member

    +1,706
    Eastern Orthodox
    Single
    It is interesting to me that we seem to be the only ones capable of appreciating it (on a deeper level) than the rest of the created animals. If we choose to, we can also choose to despise it. It's taken me 40 years but I think it's worth appreciating, imperfections and all.
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • List
  9. xianghua

    xianghua Well-Known Member

    +488
    Judaism
    Single
  10. tas8831

    tas8831 Well-Known Member

    +3,102
    United States
    Atheist
    Married
    This seems like question begging.
    Are you saying that there was no mutation before this 'fall', and that the various polymerases with error correction mechanisms were put in place by God after we were cursed to mutate for all time?
     
  11. jayem

    jayem Naturalist

    +3,454
    Atheist
    Married
    Error
     
  12. Justatruthseeker

    Justatruthseeker Newbie Supporter

    +951
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Widowed
    US-Others
    Well just at first glance I noticed the Appendix. That is such an old falsified belief that it is a vestigial organ it's not even funny anymore...

    granted, people once didn't understand it's function, but that's no excuse in this modern age of elightenment....

    Scientists discover true function of appendix organ

    Your Appendix Might Serve an Important Biological Function After All

    So i expect the other 95 hogwash propaganda claims are based upon the same outdated or undiscovered functions...

    [Staff edit].
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 18, 2018
  13. Brightmoon

    Brightmoon Apes and humans are all in family Hominidae.

    +2,049
    United States
    Episcopalian
    Single
    US-Others
    The appendix is a vestigial cecum . If it has other uses that’s not really relevant. Some vestigial organs do have other uses . The parathyroid glands are vestigial gills and like gills they’ve retained that blood calcium level regulation function.
     
  14. Justatruthseeker

    Justatruthseeker Newbie Supporter

    +951
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Widowed
    US-Others
    Whatever you need to tell yourself to keep your outdated views...... But you didn't bother to read what your fellow evolutionists say.....

    https://www.sciencealert.com/your-appendix-might-serve-an-important-biological-function-after-all-2

    "They found that the organ has evolved at least 29 times - possibly as many as 41 times - throughout mammalian evolution, and has only been lost a maximum of 12 times.

    "This statistically strong evidence that the appearance of the appendix is significantly more probable than its loss suggests a selective value for this structure," the team reports.

    "Thus, we can confidently reject the hypothesis that the appendix is a vestigial structure with little adaptive value or function among mammals."
     
  15. Brightmoon

    Brightmoon Apes and humans are all in family Hominidae.

    +2,049
    United States
    Episcopalian
    Single
    US-Others
    I’m aware that the appendix is a vestigial cecum. :sigh:
     
  16. theQuincunx5

    theQuincunx5 Well-Known Member

    +1,375
    United States
    Atheist
    Married
    Are you Wilhelm Gottfried Leibniz???? This sounds like the "best of all possible worlds" argument! :)
     
  17. pat34lee

    pat34lee Messianic

    +2,573
    Messianic
    Single
    No, just question asking.

    Living beings were created perfectly. There were no mutations,
    no sickness or disease before sin. But our fall didn't surprise God.
    He was prepared for every problem before creation began.
     
  18. pat34lee

    pat34lee Messianic

    +2,573
    Messianic
    Single
    You can live quite well without a few fingers, but
    I wouldn't recommend amputating them.
     
  19. Saint Black

    Saint Black Black Sheep Supporter

    31
    +9
    United States
    Christian
    Single
    I disagree on the flood personally, I think it was in reference to whatever killed the dinosaurs. I believe in evolution, but I believe that God created this universe and everything inhabiting it. I also believe his son Jesus Christ gave Himself for our sins.
     
  20. jayem

    jayem Naturalist

    +3,454
    Atheist
    Married
    I'd add the coagulation/complement cascade to the list. The diagram below is actually simplified. The system does work to keep you from bleeding to death after a minor injury, and it helps you fight off infection. But these physiologic pathways are very complicated. New cofactors and interactions are regularly being discovered. Given such complexity, there are many points where things can go wrong. Which is confirmed by the frequency of thrombotic diseases such as stroke, heart attack, deep venous thrombosis, and pulmonary embolism. Contrary to creationist rhetoric, complexity is not evidence for intelligent design. The opposite is true. Intelligent design is characterized by simplicity. An example: While hiking in the woods, you find a stone. It's shape is very irregular. There is no symmetry. Some edges and surfaces are smooth, some are very rough and jagged. It's unbalanced, with more mass at one end than the other. Then you find another stone. This one is perfectly spherical. The surface has a uniform texture. Its mass is balanced--it rolls on the ground without wobbling. In terms of geometry, the 1st rock is much more complex than than the 2nd. But which is more likely to have been purposefully made, and which is more likely to have been shaped by the random forces of nature?


    hsa04610_0.6732030.png
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
Loading...