Faith Plus Works

[Not David]

It's doubtful that JAMES, the Father of Judaizerism and salvation-by-works, is saved.

James was killed by the Jews in Jerusalem at around 69AD because he did not heed this word of warning from Jesus Christ ... LUKE.21:20-21 = [The Destruction of Jerusalem] 20 “But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation is near. 21 Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, let those who are in the midst of her depart, and let not those who are in the country enter her.

All the 12 apostles escaped the destruction of Jerusalem by the Roman Army in 70AD.
@David Cabrera

Are you really calling James a Judaizer?! Your views are not better than those people who think Paul created a different Christianity. Like I said, with what authority do you say those terrible things?

 

[Tree of Life]

Do you believe in the Trinity?
I do. That does not make me Roman Catholic.

The Trinity is a doctrine accepted by all Christians. But the idea that one can lose salvation by committing a mortal sin and must be saved again is a Roman Catholic error that is particular to their tradition.

 

[Tree of Life]

What does turning God's grace into a license for immorality (in Jude 1:4) even mean in the belief that says that it is okay to sin and still be saved temporarily?

I never said it was okay for saved people to sin. I said that as a matter of fact saved people still struggle with sin. This doesn't make it ok.

I just do not see how God can agree with a plan of salvation that makes for an allowance for sin because God's thinking is not sinful. Sure, you may say that a believer cannot help but to sin, but the Lord says, with God all things are possible.

I did not say that a believer cannot help but sin. But the stain of sin is so deep and profound and our deliverance from sin is never perfect in this life that even our most righteous acts as believers are stained by sin and selfishness and they are unacceptable to a holy God apart from the blood of Christ.

Meaning, with God we can overcome sin. One does not have to be a slave to their sin (See Romans 13:14, Galatians 5:24, 1 Peter 4:1-2, 2 Corinthians 7:1).

God does indeed give us the power to overcome sin, but never perfectly in this life. Even our best and most reverent worship is stained with some selfishness and is impure.

 

[Not David]

The Trinity is a doctrine accepted by all Christians. But the idea that one can lose salvation by committing a mortal sin and must be saved again is a Roman Catholic error that is particular to their tradition.

Calvinistic salvation is particular to the Reformed tradition tho.

 

[Tree of Life]

Calvinistic salvation is particular to the Reformed tradition tho.

That depends on what you mean by "Calvinistic salvation". Calvin in his soteriology was really an Augustinian.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I never said it was okay for saved people to sin. I said that as a matter of fact saved people still struggle with sin. This doesn't make it ok.



I did not say that a believer cannot help but sin. But the stain of sin is so deep and profound and our deliverance from sin is never perfect in this life that even our most righteous acts as believers are stained by sin and selfishness and they are unacceptable to a holy God apart from the blood of Christ.



God does indeed give us the power to overcome sin, but never perfectly in this life. Even our best and most reverent worship is stained with some selfishness and is impure.

God is holy, right?
So God cannot sin.
Neither can God agree with sin.
If God agreed with rewarding a believer with heaven despite their evil deeds, then that would throw into question the good character of God. Only man’s sin was paid for on the cross but a person is only forgiven personally if they seek forgiveness with God and they forsake evil.

God deals with sin in real time.
Just look at Jonah 3:6-10.
God decided to no longer bring wrath upon the Ninevites at the time that they had forsaken their evil ways.

 

[Tree of Life]

God is holy, right?
So God cannot sin.
Neither can God agree with sin.
If God agreed with rewarding a believer with heaven despite their evil deeds, then that would throw into question the good character of God.

This is where you should look more into the cross of Jesus Christ. God is indeed holy and cannot sin nor "agree with sin" (as you put it). Neither can he bless sin. Yet God rewards sinners with eternal life. This is because of the cross. On the cross, Jesus was justly punished for our sins and takes our sins away. Furthermore, Jesus' perfect righteousness is given to us and so God rewards us not on the basis of our own righteousness, but on the basis of Christ's righteousness. Jesus is punished for our sin and we are rewarded for his righteousness.

This is why Paul says of his own righteousness: "But whatever gain I had, I counted as loss for the sake of Christ. Indeed, I count everything as loss because of the surpassing worth of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord. For his sake I have suffered the loss of all things and count them as rubbish, in order that I may gain Christ and be found in him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which comes through faith in Christ, the righteousness from God that depends on faith—" (Philippians 3:7-9).

If you turn from trusting in your own righteousness and trust in the free gift of righteousness from Christ, you can become a Christian and be saved! Why not do this?

 

[Not David]

That depends on what you mean by "Calvinistic salvation". Calvin in his soteriology was really an Augustinian.

Augustine didn't believe in the Perseverance of Saints:
"If, however, being already regenerate and justified, he relapses of his own will into an evil life, assuredly he cannot say, I have not received, because of his own free choice to evil he has lost the grace of God, that he had received." (Treatise on Rebuke and Grace, 9).

 

[Bible Highlighter]

The Trinity is a doctrine accepted by all Christians. But the idea that one can lose salvation by committing a mortal sin and must be saved again is a Roman Catholic error that is particular to their tradition.

No, it’s not. You blindly say that without doing any homework in that regards.

History proves that famous believers held that works were also necessary as a part of our salvation.

Check out this article here:

https://chnetwork.org/2010/03/16/salvation-from-the-perspective-of-the-early-church-fathers/

 

[Bible Highlighter]

This is where you should look more into the cross of Jesus Christ. God is indeed holy and cannot sin nor "agree with sin" (as you put it). Neither can he bless sin. Yet God rewards sinners with eternal life. This is because of the cross. On the cross, Jesus was justly punished for our sins and takes our sins away. Furthermore, Jesus' perfect righteousness is given to us and so God rewards us not on the basis of our own righteousness, but on the basis of Christ's righteousness. Jesus is punished for our sin and we are rewarded for his righteousness.

This is why Paul says of his own righteousness: "But whatever gain I had, I counted as loss for the sake of Christ. Indeed, I count everything as loss because of the surpassing worth of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord. For his sake I have suffered the loss of all things and count them as rubbish, in order that I may gain Christ and be found in him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which comes through faith in Christ, the righteousness from God that depends on faith—" (Philippians 3:7-9).

If you turn from trusting in your own righteousness and trust in the free gift of righteousness from Christ, you can become a Christian and be saved! Why not do this?

Your slant on the Scriptures is not the gospel.
Seeking God’s forgiveness is what is in view when we first come to Christ. If Jesus died for evil acts regardless of what we do, then why doesn’t His sacrifice save everyone who does evil in the end? We have to take action (faith) to get right with God. Faith is both a belief and it is works. James 2:18 says that James will show you his faith by his works. So works are a part of our faith.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Whatsoever is not of faith is sin.
If a believer is in grievous sin, are they living the faith?
Are we saved in our sins without faith?

 

[Tree of Life]

Whatsoever is not of faith is sin.
Are we saved in our sins without faith?

No of course not. I urge you to place your faith in Jesus and take it off of yourself. You are not trusting in Christ to save you, but you are trusting in the value of your own righteousness. Place your faith in Jesus!

 

[Bible Highlighter]

No of course not. I urge you to place your faith in Jesus and take it off of yourself. You are not trusting in Christ to save you, but you are trusting in the value of your own righteousness. Place your faith in Jesus!

No. I am placing my faith in Jesus. He saves me both in Justification and Sanctification.

Your faith makes for an allowance where you can serve two masters. But Jesus says you cannot serve two masters.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

No of course not. I urge you to place your faith in Jesus and take it off of yourself. You are not trusting in Christ to save you, but you are trusting in the value of your own righteousness. Place your faith in Jesus!

Sin is a lack of faith. You said “no” as your answer to my question that said, “Are we saved in our sins without faith?”
You believe in a contradiction.
Sin is an act of unfaith.
We cannot be saved without faith.
Yet, you agree with that and still believe we can sin, which is an act of unfaith.

 

[Tree of Life]

Sin is a lack of faith. You said “no” as your answer to my question that said, “Are we saved in our sins without faith?”
You believe in a contradiction.
Sin is an act of unfaith.
We cannot be saved without faith.
Yet, you agree with that and still believe we can sin, which is an act of unfaith.

Saving faith is not perfect faith. Take your faith off of your own quality of faith and trust in the faithfulness of Christ!

 

[Alithis]

Sometimes.

and the rest of the time you sin?
id hope not ,what do you mean "sometimes ".. ?

 

[Alithis]

What does it matter to give up things for Jesus if all one needs is a belief alone on Jesus to be saved? Did you not before suggest that we are saved a Belief Alone in Jesus with no works?

No i didn't .. belief- is a verb it denotes an action taken . faith is also a verb and it too denotes an action taken. when a person truly believes they take action - if they do not , then they do not truly believe or have faith .

the problem with the rcc is that it changes its wording to to meet this understanding but then displays its UNBELIEF by refusing to be honest about the idolatry and the falsness of the pope position and the lie of perpetual virginity and the lie of purgatory and the Lie of "thier mary" being a co-mediator and the blasphemy of the title mother of god . what is the point on saying salvation is by faith alone .. when faith is an action and the first action is to repent of SIN . then they not only refuse to acknowledge SIN and perpetuate its continued practice around the world .
when the pop stands up and states categorically .. look people even having images of mary or jesus is Wrong ,people carrying images of Mary down streets in huge parades is open idolatry .. you must all cease doing this . . but then he would have to acknowledge his own position is a false hood and a lie

so what is the point or what is the motive of this turn around in their doctrines ? it is because they desire to gather a reunification- out from the authority of Jesus and under the usurped authority of Rome _and we've seen it beginning with the prosperity teachers and charismatic movement and the Lutheran and many others now entering the false unity of the apostates .

as for your rapture theories ... iv heard them ALL . for a very long time people have debated them .why ? usually because they are NOT doing what the lord Jesus said to do . and the many intellectual mind games they play and hoops they have to leap through to wrangle out thier theories . it is pointless .
in the clip you offered do you not even see he is using the same tactics as the rcc use ?
when a person cannot back up a preferred doctrine they desire to push they go to ancient writings OUTSIDE scripture for their validation .
just because this ONE or that ONE wrote what they did ,just means they too were trying to PUSH a doctrine on people . it does not mean it was a view held by the majority of believers . the only difference is that the majority of believers did not write books about it .-the opinion of the few is not the basis upon which doctrines are to be built and certainly NOT a validation.

 

[Alithis]

I think your taking the idea to the extreme. Not every believer in the Bible sold all their possessions and went out to do missionary work. There are many people who we can evangelize to in our own towns and on the Internet. I think the question is did we do good work or did we do nothing. Do we help those in need? Do we spread the gospel. Our works will earn us rewards in heaven but it won’t earn our salvation. But if we have a complete lack of compassion for others and do no good works I believe that is evidence that we don’t have faith.

where did i ever mention selling all you have ? though if our heart is not wiling to do so if that's what the lord asks of us ..then we are not in his way .

 

[Loren T.]

and the rest of the time you sin?
id hope not ,what do you mean "sometimes ".. ?

I'm a work in progress. Yes, I'm a saint, but yes, I sin. As does every Christian

 

[Alithis]

I'm a work in progress. Yes, I'm a saint, but yes, I sin. As does every Christian

why would you do sin if you know what you are about to do is a sin .. sin is a work you do . a deed . john says no one who is born of god can continue in the practice of sin .
yes i know you've been taught you cant stop .
but thats a lie if the devil to keep you captive to sin.

there is a chasm if difference between "having sin " (in the body of flesh)
and practicing sin .
its akin to - i have a packet of matched and a tin of gasoline .
that does not mean i have to light a match and drop it in the gasoline .