Faith Plus Works

[ladodgers6]

Yes we are saved by faith not our works which is why I posted James 2:14. Can “THAT FAITH” save him? “THAT FAITH” being a faith which does not produce works. I didn’t read your quote from Martin Luther his views are flawed and not deemed as an inspired writing of God. Not to mention that the earliest church writings do not reflect his beliefs. Not one of the churches established by the apostles ever taught eternal security. What was the point of Jesus establishing a church if it would fail to present the gospel the way He intended it for the first 1600 years of Christianity? Did the men Hesus chose fail to do the job He hand picked them to do? Did His church fail to prevail over evil? I’m sorry but I’ve come to a more comprehensive understanding of the scriptures and it was in my attempts to defend the doctrine of eternal security without contradicting John 15 and the more I studied it the more I became aware that John 15 cannot be correctly interpreted without contradicting eternal security.

Okay??? Are you confusing my post with somebody else? Where did I ever deny eternal security? Where did I ever deny the good works of the BELIEVER?

I'm sorry to hear that you think Luther is a heretic. But I beg to differ! The spark and fire of the Reformation was brewing years before Luther & Calvin. The Reformation exploded on scene when the printing presses were the modern technology of that era in the 1500's. The Reformers were not trying to destroy the RCC, but Reform it back to scripture. The corruption of RCC because of monetary greed; those false preachers started to pervert the Gospel of Christ!

The Gospel cannot be earned, worked for, offered in an exchange from any condemned sinner under

Yes we are saved by faith not our works which is why I posted James 2:14. Can “THAT FAITH” save him? “THAT FAITH” being a faith which does not produce works. I didn’t read your quote from Martin Luther his views are flawed and not deemed as an inspired writing of God. Not to mention that the earliest church writings do not reflect his beliefs. Not one of the churches established by the apostles ever taught eternal security. What was the point of Jesus establishing a church if it would fail to present the gospel the way He intended it for the first 1600 years of Christianity? Did the men Hesus chose fail to do the job He hand picked them to do? Did His church fail to prevail over evil? I’m sorry but I’ve come to a more comprehensive understanding of the scriptures and it was in my attempts to defend the doctrine of eternal security without contradicting John 15 and the more I studied it the more I became aware that John 15 cannot be correctly interpreted without contradicting eternal security.

Okay??? Are you confusing me with somebody else? Where did I deny eternal security? Where did I deny the good works of the BELIEVER?

In Calvinism and Lutherianism we teach, Legalism and Antinomanism. This two headed monster has plagued Christendom from the very beginning.

Case in point, Paul preaching to the Galatians. And James preaching against Antinomanism in James 2. James is preaching to Believers; that because they are under Grace; doesn't mean they can go on continuing to sin!

But Justification of the sinner/believer and Sanctification of the sinner/believer are two distinct things, but not separate. Like two links in a chain. The two links are distinct from each other, but not separate.

In Reformed theology we do not believe in anti-law (Antinomanism) for the believer! A lot of people who are not familiar with reform theology make this mistake! And it couldn't be further from the truth.

Sorry you feel that way about Luther. I beg to differ. The Reformation came about because of the corruption in the RCC. The reformers did not want to destroy the church. Only reform it back to Scripture!

Hope this helps?

In Christ Alone, Our Redemption, Out Justification, and Our Sanctification.

1 Cor. 1:30It is because of him that you are in Christ Jesus, who has become for us wisdom from God—that is, our righteousness, holiness and redemption. 31Therefore, as it is written: “Let the one who boasts boast in the Lord.”

Titus 3:5 he saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy. He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit, 6whom he poured out on us generously through Jesus Christ our Savior, 7so that, having been justified by his grace, we might become heirs having the hope of eternal life.

Where is our works?

 

[ladodgers6]

I don’t see Luther addressing John 15. His quote from John 15:19 does not address verses 1-10 at all. In order to make his theories correct he resorts to jumping around from scripture to scripture ignoring the context only taking tiny pieces and piecing them together in order to support his beliefs. John 15:1-10 doesn’t require any skipping from one chapter to another to determine what is being said. It’s all right there in plain writing for anyone to see.

Okay? Please clear something up for me? We are talking about James 2. What about John 15 are you trying to show me?

 

[BNR32FAN]

Okay??? Are you confusing my post with somebody else? Where did I ever deny eternal security? Where did I ever deny the good works of the BELIEVER?

I'm sorry to hear that you think Luther is a heretic. But I beg to differ! The spark and fire of the Reformation was brewing years before Luther & Calvin. The Reformation exploded on scene when the printing presses were the modern technology of that era in the 1500's. The Reformers were not trying to destroy the RCC, but Reform it back to scripture. The corruption of RCC because of monetary greed; those false preachers started to pervert the Gospel of Christ!

The Gospel cannot be earned, worked for, offered in an exchange from any condemned sinner under


Okay??? Are you confusing me with somebody else? Where did I deny eternal security? Where did I deny the good works of the BELIEVER?

In Calvinism and Lutherianism we teach, Legalism and Antinomanism. This two headed monster has plagued Christendom from the very beginning.

Case in point, Paul preaching to the Galatians. And James preaching against Antinomanism in James 2. James is preaching to Believers; that because they are under Grace; doesn't mean they can go on continuing to sin!

But Justification of the sinner/believer and Sanctification of the sinner/believer are two distinct things, but not separate. Like two links in a chain. The two links are distinct from each other, but not separate.

In Reformed theology we do not believe in anti-law (Antinomanism) for the believer! A lot of people who are not familiar with reform theology make this mistake! And it couldn't be further from the truth.

Sorry you feel that way about Luther. I beg to differ. The Reformation came about because of the corruption in the RCC. The reformers did not want to destroy the church. Only reform it back to Scripture!

Hope this helps?

In Christ Alone, Our Redemption, Out Justification, and Our Sanctification.

1 Cor. 1:30It is because of him that you are in Christ Jesus, who has become for us wisdom from God—that is, our righteousness, holiness and redemption. 31Therefore, as it is written: “Let the one who boasts boast in the Lord.”

Titus 3:5 he saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy. He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit, 6whom he poured out on us generously through Jesus Christ our Savior, 7so that, having been justified by his grace, we might become heirs having the hope of eternal life.

Where is our works?

I absolutely agree that the reformation was a most unfortunate event that took place because of the actions of the RCC. But the RCC was officially kicked out of the Catholic Church over 500 years before the reformation. I think you misunderstood what I was saying. My point was that a faith that does not produce works is not a saving faith which ties to John 15 in our abiding in Christ. My point was to support my position that salvation can be revoked if we do not abide or remain in Christ. If we are in Christ we will undoubtedly produce fruit or do good works. Our works derive from love, and a desire to serve God. If we do not have love and a desire to serve God then we are not in Christ, we are not abiding in Him and the result is that we will be cut off or removed from the vine, thrown away to wither and thrown into the fire to burn. John 15 implies that believers who are in Christ can in fact fail to abide. If believers cannot fail to abide The Father would never cut of any branches who are in Christ that do not produce fruit.

 

[ladodgers6]

I absolutely agree that the reformation was a most unfortunate event that took place because of the actions of the RCC.

On the contrary, praise and glory to God for giving us the light of the Gospel through the Reformation again! The distinct between Law & Gospel in relation to Justification by Faith Alone!

Side Note: When we say Justification by Faith Alone. Its shorthand for Christ Alone; through His birth, Life, Death, and Resurrection; which His works fulfilled the broken Covenant of the Law, which the first Adam breached through His disobedience and bought condemnation & death upon all his progeny. The second or last Adam reversed the curse and bought Justification and life! And through his death he propitiated God's holy righteous wrath. Upon his own head in our stead. And through Faith Alone apart from works we receive the righteousness of Christ as a gift; as if it is our own!

But the RCC was officially kicked out of the Catholic Church over 500 years before the reformation.

I am not sure about this. I will research it, before I respond. Because I believe this is in error.

I think you misunderstood what I was saying. My point was that a faith that does not produce works is not a saving faith which ties to John 15 in our abiding in Christ. My point was to support my position that salvation can be revoked if we do not abide or remain in Christ. If we are in Christ we will undoubtedly produce fruit or do good works. Our works derive from love, and a desire to serve God. If we do not have love and a desire to serve God then we are not in Christ, we are not abiding in Him and the result is that we will be cut off or removed from the vine, thrown away to wither and thrown into the fire to burn. John 15 implies that believers who are in Christ can in fact fail to abide. If believers cannot fail to abide The Father would never cut of any branches who are in Christ that do not produce fruit.

Yes, I understand and agree that believers will bear fruit. But this fruit is not the cause of our salvation. It is the result of it in Christ Alone received through Faith Alone! Our only solid rock to stand firm upon is Christ!

Read Luke 18,

The Pharisee and the Tax Collector

9He also told this parable to some who trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and treated others with contempt: 10“Two men went up into the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. 11The Pharisee, standing by himself, prayed thus: ‘God, I thank you that I am not like other men, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even like this tax collector. 12I fast twice a week; I give tithes of all that I get.’ 13But the tax collector, standing far off, would not even lift up his eyes to heaven, but beat his breast, saying, ‘God, be merciful to me, a sinner!’ 14I tell you, this man went down to his house justified, rather than the other. For everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, but the one who humbles himself will be exalted.”

Titus 3:5he saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit, 6whom he poured out on us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior, 7so that being justified by his grace we might become heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

It's all of Grace!!!

In Christ Alone!

God Bless!

 

[BNR32FAN]

On the contrary, praise and glory to God for giving us the light of the Gospel through the Reformation again! The distinct between Law & Gospel in relation to Justification by Faith Alone!

Side Note: When we say Justification by Faith Alone. Its shorthand for Christ Alone; through His birth, Life, Death, and Resurrection; which His works fulfilled the broken Covenant of the Law, which the first Adam breached through His disobedience and bought condemnation & death upon all his progeny. The second or last Adam reversed the curse and bought Justification and life! And through his death he propitiated God's holy righteous wrath. Upon his own head in our stead. And through Faith Alone apart from works we receive the righteousness of Christ as a gift; as if it is our own!
I am not sure about this. I will research it, before I respond. Because I believe this is in error.


Yes, I understand and agree that believers will bear fruit. But this fruit is not the cause of our salvation. It is the result of it in Christ Alone received through Faith Alone! Our only solid rock to stand firm upon is Christ!

Read Luke 18,

The Pharisee and the Tax Collector

9He also told this parable to some who trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and treated others with contempt: 10“Two men went up into the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. 11The Pharisee, standing by himself, prayed thus: ‘God, I thank you that I am not like other men, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even like this tax collector. 12I fast twice a week; I give tithes of all that I get.’ 13But the tax collector, standing far off, would not even lift up his eyes to heaven, but beat his breast, saying, ‘God, be merciful to me, a sinner!’ 14I tell you, this man went down to his house justified, rather than the other. For everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, but the one who humbles himself will be exalted.”

Titus 3:5he saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit, 6whom he poured out on us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior, 7so that being justified by his grace we might become heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

It's all of Grace!!!

In Christ Alone!

God Bless!

Amen I never said we are justified by our works. John 15 certainly doesn’t teach justification by works but it does teach that those who abide in Christ will without a doubt do good works and anyone not doing good works will be cut off from Christ and thrown into the fire to be burned. Romans 11:16-24 also supports this that branches who are grafted in will be cut off for disobedience and branches that are cut off can be grafted back in again if they repent. The parable of the talents also teaches that when the master (Jesus) returns if the servant of the master (servant of God) is not profitable he will be thrown into outer darkness where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. 2 Timothy 2-11-13 Notice Paul includes even himself when he says “if WE deny Him He will deny US”. Paul is saying if I deny Him He will deny me. Concerning the tax collector you mentioned yes he was remorseful and humble and was at that time justified but if he should turn back to a disobedient life he can still be cut off as stated in Romans 11:16-24.

 

[ladodgers6]

Amen I never said we are justified by our works. John 15 certainly doesn’t teach justification by works but it does teach that those who abide in Christ will without a doubt do good works and anyone not doing good works will be cut off from Christ and thrown into the fire to be burned. Romans 11:16-24 also supports this that branches who are grafted in will be cut off for disobedience and branches that are cut off can be grafted back in again if they repent. The parable of the talents also teaches that when the master (Jesus) returns if the servant of the master (servant of God) is not profitable he will be thrown into outer darkness where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. 2 Timothy 2-11-13 Notice Paul includes even himself when he says “if WE deny Him He will deny US”. Paul is saying if I deny Him He will deny me. Concerning the tax collector you mentioned yes he was remorseful and humble and was at that time justified but if he should turn back to a disobedient life he can still be cut off as stated in Romans 11:16-24.

Amen! Those who are Justified in Christ Alone will bear fruit. This is without question, friend. In Reformed Theology we teach Sanctification of the Believer who bears fruit. But I am with Luther when he said that I do not find assurance or confidence in my good works, but rather in Christ and His works alone!

People have confounded this, since the beginning. Mixing Law & Gospel, or Gospel with Law. And getting another gospel which is no gospel at all, Paul says to the Galatians! Our works or any evangelical works are not the cause of our Salvation; they are the result of it! I am only sharing with you.

Because Justification & Sanctification are two distinct, but not separate things. People have turn Justification (The FREE Gift) into Legalism (Earning this Free Gift through self-righteousness) and Law into Antinomianism (Anti-Law for the Believer/abolishing the Law). In Reformed Theology we hold to the 3 uses of the Law:1) Ceremonial, 2) Civil Law, 3) Guide for Christian living

Hope this Helps???

In Christ Alone!

 

[BNR32FAN]

Amen! Those who are Justified in Christ Alone will bear fruit. This is without question, friend. In Reformed Theology we teach Sanctification of the Believer who bears fruit. But I am with Luther when he said that I do not find assurance or confidence in my good works, but rather in Christ and His works alone!

People have confounded this, since the beginning. Mixing Law & Gospel, or Gospel with Law. And getting another gospel which is no gospel at all, Paul says to the Galatians! Our works or any evangelical works are not the cause of our Salvation; they are the result of it! I am only sharing with you.

Because Justification & Sanctification are two distinct, but not separate things. People have turn Justification (The FREE Gift) into Legalism (Earning this Free Gift through self-righteousness) and Law into Antinomianism (Anti-Law for the Believer/abolishing the Law). In Reformed Theology we hold to the 3 uses of the Law:1) Ceremonial, 2) Civil Law, 3) Guide for Christian living

Hope this Helps???

In Christ Alone!

So did you see that salvation is not eternal according to the verses I provided? That Paul admitted that even he was capable of denying Christ which in return would result in Christ denying Him and that believers can be cut off and grafted back into the tree and that their grafting intonthe tree is not eternal?

 

[ladodgers6]

So did you see that salvation is not eternal according to the verses I provided? That Paul admitted that even he was capable of denying Christ which in return would result in Christ denying Him and that believers can be cut off and grafted back into the tree and that their grafting intonthe tree is not eternal?

Thanks for sharing. Can sinners or even believers undo what Jesus accomplished? Jesus did not come to take us halfway and leave us stranded! We enter the ancient doors that were once closed, on the train of Our Savior and Redeemer.

John 5:35Then Jesus declared, “I am the bread of life. Whoever comes to me will never go hungry, and whoever believes in me will never be thirsty. 36But as I told you, you have seen me and still you do not believe. 37All those the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never drive away. 38For I have come down from heaven not to do my will but to do the will of him who sent me. 39And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all those he has given me, but raise them up at the last day. 40For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.”

Salvation is of the Lord (Jonah 2:9)

Hope this helps???

The Law says do. The Gospel says DONE in Christ!

 

[BNR32FAN]

Thanks for sharing. Can sinners or even believers undo what Jesus accomplished? Jesus did not come to take us halfway and leave us stranded! We enter the ancient doors that were once closed, on the train of Our Savior and Redeemer.

John 5:35Then Jesus declared, “I am the bread of life. Whoever comes to me will never go hungry, and whoever believes in me will never be thirsty. 36But as I told you, you have seen me and still you do not believe. 37All those the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never drive away. 38For I have come down from heaven not to do my will but to do the will of him who sent me. 39And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all those he has given me, but raise them up at the last day. 40For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.”

Salvation is of the Lord (Jonah 2:9)

Hope this helps???

The Law says do. The Gospel says DONE in Christ!

So why don’t you address the scriptures I provided? That would be the most effective way to prove your point. I will gladly address yours.

“All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will certainly not cast out. For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me. This is the will of Him who sent Me, that of all that He has given Me I lose nothing, but raise it up on the last day. For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day."”

John 6:37-40 NASB


My first response is this


“And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to Myself."”

John 12:32 NASB


After Jesus’ resurrection He draws all men to Himself. And women of course I’m sure. Lol

We need to take a closer look at verse 37. The word come and comes are two different Greek words. Come (G2240) is your standard definition but comes (G2064) is only used in the present tense. I’ve included the definitions below.

“All that the Father gives Me will come (G2240) to Me, and the one who comes (G2064) to Me I will certainly not cast out.”

John 6:37 NASB

Come

G2240

Lemma:

ἥκω

Transliteration:

hḗkō

Pronounce:

hay'-ko

Part of Speech:

Verb

Language:

greek

Description:

1) to have come, have arrived, be present

2) metaph. a) to come to one, i.e. to seek an intimacy with one, become his follower: to come upon one (unexpectedly) b) to come upon one, of things endured


Comes/Cometh

G2064

Lemma:

ἔρχομαι

Transliteration:

érchomai

Pronounce:

el'-tho

Part of Speech:

Verb

Language:

greek

Description:

1) to come a) of persons

1) to come from one place to another, and used both of persons arriving and of those returning

2) to appear, make one's appearance, come before the public

2) metaph. a) to come into being, arise, come forth, show itself, find place or influence b) be established, become known, to come (fall) into or unto

3) to go, to follow one


Grammar:

middle voice of a primary verb (used only in the present and imperfect tenses, the others being supplied by a kindred (middle voice) , or (active) , which do not otherwise occur); to come or go (in a great variety of applications, literally and figuratively):--accompany, appear, bring, come, enter, fall out, go, grow, X light, X next, pass, resort, be set.

Since the second word “comes” or “cometh” is only used in the present or imperfect tense (imperfect tense is a combination of the past tense and a continuous or repeating aspect) this doesn’t mean anyone who has ever came Jesus will certainly not cast out it means anyone who presently and continually comes He will certainly not cast out.

Next let’s look at the word “will” used several times throughout verses 38-40.

In all of these cases from verse 38-40 Jesus is using the word thélēma. (G2307). So let’s look at the definition.

Will

G2307

Lemma:

θέλημα

Transliteration:

thélēma

Pronounce:

thel'-ay-mah

Part of Speech:

Noun Neuter

Language:

greek

Description:

1) what one wishes or has determined shall be done a) of the purpose of God to bless mankind through Christ b) of what God wishes to be done by us

1) commands, precepts

2) will, choice, inclination, desire, pleasure


Grammar:

from the prolonged form of θέλω; a determination (properly, the thing), i.e. (actively) choice (specially, purpose, decree; abstractly, volition) or (passively) inclination:-- desire, pleasure, will.

Just because the scriptures say something is God’s will doesn’t mean He has made it to be. It’s can mean God desires something to be. In 1 Timothy 2:3-4 God “wills or desires” all men to be saved and come to the full knowledge of the truth. But we know that will not happen. This is an example of how the word is used in reference to something God desires but doesn’t make it to be. So if you replace the word “will” with “desires” in verses 38-40 it becomes a whole different meaning doesn’t it. It no longer contradicts the verses I posted in my previous message. Examine the verses I posted 2 Timothy 2:11-13, Romans 11:16-24, John 15:1-10 there’s no other way to interpret them.

 

[ladodgers6]

So why don’t you address the scriptures I provided? That would be the most effective way to prove your point. I will gladly address yours.

“All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will certainly not cast out. For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me. This is the will of Him who sent Me, that of all that He has given Me I lose nothing, but raise it up on the last day. For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day."”

John 6:37-40 NASB


My first response is this


“And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to Myself."”

John 12:32 NASB


After Jesus’ resurrection He draws all men to Himself. And women of course I’m sure. Lol

We need to take a closer look at verse 37. The word come and comes are two different Greek words. Come (G2240) is your standard definition but comes (G2064) is only used in the present tense. I’ve included the definitions below.

“All that the Father gives Me will come (G2240) to Me, and the one who comes (G2064) to Me I will certainly not cast out.”

John 6:37 NASB

Come

G2240

Lemma:

ἥκω

Transliteration:

hḗkō

Pronounce:

hay'-ko

Part of Speech:

Verb

Language:

greek

Description:

1) to have come, have arrived, be present

2) metaph. a) to come to one, i.e. to seek an intimacy with one, become his follower: to come upon one (unexpectedly) b) to come upon one, of things endured


Comes/Cometh

G2064

Lemma:

ἔρχομαι

Transliteration:

érchomai

Pronounce:

el'-tho

Part of Speech:

Verb

Language:

greek

Description:

1) to come a) of persons

1) to come from one place to another, and used both of persons arriving and of those returning

2) to appear, make one's appearance, come before the public

2) metaph. a) to come into being, arise, come forth, show itself, find place or influence b) be established, become known, to come (fall) into or unto

3) to go, to follow one


Grammar:

middle voice of a primary verb (used only in the present and imperfect tenses, the others being supplied by a kindred (middle voice) , or (active) , which do not otherwise occur); to come or go (in a great variety of applications, literally and figuratively):--accompany, appear, bring, come, enter, fall out, go, grow, X light, X next, pass, resort, be set.

Since the second word “comes” or “cometh” is only used in the present or imperfect tense (imperfect tense is a combination of the past tense and a continuous or repeating aspect) this doesn’t mean anyone who has ever came Jesus will certainly not cast out it means anyone who presently and continually comes He will certainly not cast out.

Next let’s look at the word “will” used several times throughout verses 38-40.

In all of these cases from verse 38-40 Jesus is using the word thélēma. (G2307). So let’s look at the definition.

Will

G2307

Lemma:

θέλημα

Transliteration:

thélēma

Pronounce:

thel'-ay-mah

Part of Speech:

Noun Neuter

Language:

greek

Description:

1) what one wishes or has determined shall be done a) of the purpose of God to bless mankind through Christ b) of what God wishes to be done by us

1) commands, precepts

2) will, choice, inclination, desire, pleasure


Grammar:

from the prolonged form of θέλω; a determination (properly, the thing), i.e. (actively) choice (specially, purpose, decree; abstractly, volition) or (passively) inclination:-- desire, pleasure, will.

Just because the scriptures say something is God’s will doesn’t mean He has made it to be. It’s can mean God desires something to be. In 1 Timothy 2:3-4 God “wills or desires” all men to be saved and come to the full knowledge of the truth. But we know that will not happen. This is an example of how the word is used in reference to something God desires but doesn’t make it to be. So if you replace the word “will” with “desires” in verses 38-40 it becomes a whole different meaning doesn’t it. It no longer contradicts the verses I posted in my previous message. Examine the verses I posted 2 Timothy 2:11-13, Romans 11:16-24, John 15:1-10 there’s no other way to interpret them.

So you are suggesting that there is no Plan of Salvation from God?

 

[BNR32FAN]

So you are suggesting that there is no Plan of Salvation from God?

No not at all such a statement would contradict the entire teachings of the scriptures. I honestly don’t know how you could even come to that conclusion from what I posted. I’m actually very suspicious that your intent is to twist my words. If that is the case then forgive me for saying so but there’s no point in further discussion if that is your motive.

 

[ladodgers6]

I'm jumping ahead of the curve.

 

[BNR32FAN]

I'm jumping ahead of the curve.

Ok are you going to address the scriptures I provided? Or can you?

 

[ladodgers6]

Oh, for sure. I'm not home right now. But I will definitely tackle ask questions you might have. And in exchange, I request the same from you, sir. Deal or no deal?

 

[ladodgers6]

Ok are you going to address the scriptures I provided? Or can you?

Sorry for the delay. Which scriptures do you want me to address? And while I am doing that. You said we are NOT justified by our works. Can you expound on this further?

 

[ladodgers6]

This is what I confess, from the Heidelberg Catechism.


60. Q.
How are you righteous before God?

A.
Only by true faith in Jesus Christ. 1
Although my conscience accuses me
that I have grievously sinned
against all God's commandments,
have never kept any of them, 2
and am still inclined to all evil, 3
yet God, without any merit of my own, 4
out of mere grace, 5
imputes to me
the perfect satisfaction,
righteousness, and holiness of Christ. 6
He grants these to me
as if I had never had nor committed
any sin,
and as if I myself had accomplished
all the obedience
which Christ has rendered for me, 7
if only I accept this gift
with a believing heart. 8

• 1. Rom 3:21-28; Gal 2:16; Eph 2:8, 9; Phil 3:8-11.
• 2. Rom 3:9, 10.
• 3. Rom 7:23.
• 4. Deut 9:6; Ezek 36:22; Tit 3:4, 5.
• 5. Rom 3:24; Eph 2:8.
• 6. Rom 4:3-5; 2 Cor 5:17-19; 1 Jn 2:1, 2.
• 7. Rom 4:24, 25; 2 Cor 5:21.
• 8. Jn 3:18; Acts 16:30, 31; Rom 3:22.