Why are so many Christians against annihilation in hell when scripture supports it?

ClementofA

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You keep waffling on many things here DA. Everyone reading can see it.
If scripture is the word of God and those scriptures tell us Jesus Christ is the saviour of the world who else but God is telling you Jesus Christ is the saviour of the world? Thus every verse I quoted is a quote from God.

So again I will ask you what greater testimony do you need before you will believe Jesus Christ is the saviour of the world? <end>
No waffles I prefer pancakes. Do you believe that,

“the whole world is under the control of the evil one” 1 John 5:19
“Satan, who leads the whole world astray” Revelation 12:9
“The whole world … followed the beast” Revelation 13:3
“Diana …, whom all Asia and the world worships.” Acts of the apostles 19:27
Satan is “the god of this world.” 2 Corinthians 4:4

Are you now a Calvinist & you believe Jesus being the Savior of the world means only the lucky ones God determined to be the elect? Does Jn.1:29 mean by "world" only some? Do you believe in the limited atonement theory?

What we still do not have is any Bible writer directly quoting God or Jesus saying that all mankind good and bad, will be saved.

God or Jesus? God is Jesus. And His inspired Scriptures have made it clear all will be saved (Rom.5:18-19; 1 Cor.15:22-28; etc).

But here is what Jesus Himself says,
• “Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:” Matthew 25:41
• "these [on the left] shall go away into eternal punishment, Matthew 25:46"

Compare:

Lamentations 3:22 and 3:31-33, The steadfast love of the Lord NEVER ceases, his mercies NEVER come to an end. . . .
Lam.3:31 For the Lord will NOT cast off FOR EVER:
32 For if He causes grief, Then He will have compassion According to His abundant lovingkindness. 33 For He does not afflict willingly Or grieve the SONS OF MEN.…

Clearly the Greek/Hebrew words mistranslated "everlasting", "eternal" & "forever" in pro endless hell biased translations do not always mean what they seem to mean, e.g.:

Then his master shall bring him unto the judges; he shall also bring him to the door, or unto the door post; and his master shall bore his ear through with an aul; and he shall serve him for ever. (Exo.21:6)

https://www.christianforums.com/threads/augustines-ignorance-error-re-matthew-25-46.8041938/l
https://www.christianforums.com/threads/have-you-been-decieved-by-your-bible-translation.8039822/
https://www.christianforums.com/thr...in-duration-with-aionion-in-mt-25-46.8069208/


• "the fire of hell where the fire is not quenched and the worm does not die, Mark 9:43-48"
• "cast into a fiery furnace where there will be wailing and gnashing of teeth,” Matthew 13:42, Matthew 13:50

Lame. Nothing there says anyone will suffer endless tortures. Jesus could have easily expressed such a thought, if that was His belief. Since He never does, He doesn't believe such a thing. See also:

https://www.christianforums.com/thr...sition-to-endless-hell.8042016/#post-72141156




• “But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.” Matthew 18:6

In Mt.18:6 is the lame warning of a punishment which is compared to mere drowning, which is nothing compared to being kept alive for the sole purpose of being tortured for all the "endless" ages of eternity that have "no end" & "never" cease. Jesus says it is "better for them to have a large millstone hung around their neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea". OTOH, if He had been a believer in endless punishment, He could have expressed that by saying it is better for them to have never lived, never been conceived, or that their parents had never known (had sex with) one another. Compare this anti-biblical Jewish view that the Lord Jesus Christ, Love Omnipotent, rejected:

"To every individual is apportioned two shares, one in hell and one in paradise. At death, however, the righteous man's portion in hell is exchanged, so that he has two in heaven, while the reverse is true in the case of sinners (Ḥag. 15a). Hence it would have been better for the latter not to have lived at all (Yeb. 63b)." http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/6558-gehenna

• “And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.” Matthew 7:23

"never" (Mt.7:23, etc)...this word appears to occur 16 times in the NT & it seems that it never means anything except "never". It is used of "love never fails" (1 Cor.13:8). It also occurs in Mt.7:23 where Jesus says "I never knew you; depart you from Me, those working lawlessness." Which is such an incredibly lame remark, if Love Omnipotent believed in endless torments. If He believed that such an unspeakably horrific final destiny awaits the wicked, including those He was referring to in Mt.7:23, why didn't He make it clear by telling them that they would "never" be saved and/or He would "never" know them? Would that not have been clear & unambiguous, unlike the words He spoke, & unlike the ambiguous aion & aionios, which often refer to finite duration in ancient Koine Greek? OTOH consider re the use of the word "never":

"Philo saith, “The punishment of the wicked person is, ζην αποθανοντα αει, to live for ever dying, and to be for ever in pains, and griefs, and calamities that never cease..." http://biblehub.com/commentaries/benson/mark/9.htm

Yet Scripture - never - uses such language. Moreover, it speaks of death being abolished, not being "for ever".

• “woe unto that man by whom the Son of man is betrayed! it had been good for that man if he had not been born. ” Matthew 26:24

Better not to have been born. Not to have never existed.

Jesus said it would have been better if Judas had not been born. He did not say it would have been better if Judas had never been conceived or existed. The latter opposes universalism, the former does not necessarily do so. One who dies in the womb without being born has existed. To not be born & die before being born means that one existed.

It would be better to be (1) concieved (& therefore to exist) & not be born than (2) to be born & live a wicked life (e.g. Judas Iscariot), because the former is in better standing with God than the latter (compare, for example, Lk.12:47-48). Judas will suffer the wrath of God of which the child in utero, who was never born, is not deserving. Therefore, for Judas, it would have been better if he had never been born, but died in his mother's womb. But, though he will suffer the wrath of God, this does not rule out the possibility of his ultimate salvation. Therefore Mt.26:24 fails as a proof text against him being saved.


• “But I say unto you, that it shall be more tolerable in that day for Sodom, than for that city.” Luke 10:12
In Matt. 18:6, 26:24 and Luk 10:12, see above, Jesus teaches that there is a fate worse than death or nonexistence.

None of those verses refer to a "fate worse than...nonexistence". And a "fate worse than death" need not be endless tortures & is nowhere near being similar to endless tortures. Compare:

Heb.10:28 A man that hath set at nought Moses' law dieth without compassion on the word of two or three witnesses: 29 of how much sorer punishment, think ye, shall he be judged worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

Stoning to death is not a very sore or long lasting punishment. People suffered far worse deaths via the torture methods of the eternal hell believing Medieval Inquisitionists and the German Nazis under Hitler.

Therefore, if the writer of Hebrews believed that wicked, rebellious, Christ rejectors would be punished with something so monstrous as being endlessly annihilated or tormented, he would not have chosen to compare their punishment to something so lame as being stoned to death. Clearly he did not believe Love Omnipotent is an unfeeling terminator machine or sadist who abandons forever the beings He created in His own image & likeness so easily.


.....Unlike the UR crowd I consider Jesus to be the standard not Paul or John or other NT writers. I interpret the writings of Paul et al. to agree with what Jesus said. On the other hand UR-ites reinterpret the words of Jesus so that they do not mean what they literally say in order to make them agree with the UR interpretation of Paul et al.

All Scripture is inspired of God. Paul is in harmony with what the 4 Gospels & Jesus say about the Lord being the Savior of the world, of all mankind. For Paul's inspired words of truth are from the risen Lord Jesus Christ Himself.

https://www.tentmaker.org/books/hope_beyond_hell.pdf
http://www.tentmaker.org/articles/unique_proof_for_universalism.html
 
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Pneuma3

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You keep waffling on many things here DA. Everyone reading can see it.
If scripture is the word of God and those scriptures tell us Jesus Christ is the saviour of the world who else but God is telling you Jesus Christ is the saviour of the world? Thus every verse I quoted is a quote from God.

So again I will ask you what greater testimony do you need before you will believe Jesus Christ is the saviour of the world? <end>
No waffles I prefer pancakes. Do you believe that,
“the whole world is under the control of the evil one” 1 John 5:19
“Satan, who leads the whole world astray” Revelation 12:9
“The whole world … followed the beast” Revelation 13:3
“Diana …, whom all Asia and the world worships.” Acts of the apostles 19:27
Satan is “the god of this world.” 2 Corinthians 4:4
What we still do not have is any Bible writer directly quoting God or Jesus saying that all mankind good and bad, will be saved. But here is what Jesus Himself says,

Is that suppose to be your answer to my question...

If scripture is the word of God and those scriptures tell us Jesus Christ is the saviour of the world who else but God is telling you Jesus Christ is the saviour of the world? Thus every verse I quoted is a quote from God.

So again I will ask you what greater testimony do you need before you will believe Jesus Christ is the saviour of the world?....

So are you saying scripture is not God speaking to us? I know you can't answer that question because if you say scripture is God speaking to us then my point is made and you have before you the scriptures that plainly state Jesus Christ is the saviour of the world.
 
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Pneuma3

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You keep waffling on many things here DA. Everyone reading can see it.
If scripture is the word of God and those scriptures tell us Jesus Christ is the saviour of the world who else but God is telling you Jesus Christ is the saviour of the world? Thus every verse I quoted is a quote from God.

So again I will ask you what greater testimony do you need before you will believe Jesus Christ is the saviour of the world? <end>

.....Unlike the UR crowd I consider Jesus to be the standard not Paul or John or other NT writers. I interpret the writings of Paul et al. to agree with what Jesus said. On the other hand UR-ites reinterpret the words of Jesus so that they do not mean what they literally say in order to make them agree with the UR interpretation of Paul et al.

Yes, Jesus is the standard and Paul says he presses on into the high calling in Christ, that he has the mind of Christ etc. So you either believe him and those who seen and heard Jesus or you do not.

Because what you are saying is Paul, Peter and the boys disagree with Jesus.

And I interpret all scripture through Christ and what he came to do which is the salvation of the world and Paul and John both proclaim Jesus did/will do exactly that.

Your only defense for your belief hangs on one single word (aion) and its adjective which you misinterpret to mean eternal, thus you will always waffle as we have seen you doing throughout this discussion because you cannot reconcile eternal torment with what we are commanded to teach, which is Jesus Christ is the saviour of ALL MEN, specially of those that believe.

Now if you could only see that aion and its adjective is speaking of an age and those things that pertain to an age all scripture is reconciled with what we are commanded to teach.

Thus when Jesus speaks of aionios punishment he is speaking of an age of correction, pruning people so they are fit to enter in through the gates into the city.

Praise God, Jesus Christ IS the saviour of the WORLD.
 
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Der Alte

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Yes, Jesus is the standard and Paul says he presses on into the high calling in Christ, that he has the mind of Christ etc. So you either believe him and those who seen and heard Jesus or you do not.
Because what you are saying is Paul, Peter and the boys disagree with Jesus.
Wrong as usual. Read this carefully Paul, Peter et al. must be interpreted to agree with Jesus not the other way around as you continue to do.
And I interpret all scripture through Christ and what he came to do which is the salvation of the world and Paul and John both proclaim Jesus did/will do exactly that.
Please show me one [1] verse which is quoting God, Himself or Jesus, Himself saying that either one will save all mankind good, bad, whatever. There must be at least one verse where God/Jesus say something which can be interpreted as UR.
Your only defense for your belief hangs on one single word (aion) and its adjective which you misinterpret to mean eternal, thus you will always waffle as we have seen you doing throughout this discussion because you cannot reconcile eternal torment with what we are commanded to teach, which is Jesus Christ is the saviour of ALL MEN, specially of those that believe.
I have not waffled on anything. Apparently your Bible only has one verse 1 Tim 4:10. My Bible has 31,172. What I believe is not based on one out-of-context verse.
Now if you could only see that aion and its adjective is speaking of an age and those things that pertain to an age all scripture is reconciled with what we are commanded to teach.
Sorry amigo I will accept you interpretation of aion and aionios when you bring about 40-60 years of Greek scholarship to the table like the scholars I studied under. The pet scholars such as Young and Strong which you seek out do not show any scholarship supporting their translations such as found in BDAG and LSJ see e.g. my [post #586] this thread. Note the blue highlighting which indicates scholarly and historical sources the authors consulted. Unlike Strong and Young who only give their unsupported opinion.
Thus when Jesus speaks of aionios punishment he is speaking of an age of correction, pruning people so they are fit to enter in through the gates into the city.
Have you suddenly acquired an advance degree in Greek and a few decades of scholarship?
Praise God, Jesus Christ IS the saviour of the WORLD.
Please show me one [1] verse where Jesus or God is quoted as saying that all mankind, good, bad, whatever will be saved
 
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Der Alte

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Is that suppose to be your answer to my question...
If scripture is the word of God and those scriptures tell us Jesus Christ is the saviour of the world who else but God is telling you Jesus Christ is the saviour of the world? Thus every verse I quoted is a quote from God.
So again I will ask you what greater testimony do you need before you will believe Jesus Christ is the saviour of the world?....
So are you saying scripture is not God speaking to us? I know you can't answer that question because if you say scripture is God speaking to us then my point is made and you have before you the scriptures that plainly state Jesus Christ is the saviour of the world.
Repeating one out-of-context verse over and over and over does not prove anything.
Nonsense. All I am asking for is one [1] verse where God, Himself, or Jesus, Himself, say something which can be interpreted as UR.
.....You keep repeating your proof text over and over as if it is some kind of magic mantra. I do believe that Jesus is the savior of the world in the same way as

“the whole world is under the control of the evil one” 1 John 5:19
“Satan, leads the whole world astray” Revelation 12:9
“The whole world … followed the beast” Revelation 13:3
“Diana …, whom all Asia and the world worships.” Acts of the apostles 19:27
Satan is “the god of this world.” 2 Corinthians 4:4
 
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ClementofA

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Please show me one [1] verse where Jesus or God is quoted as saying that all mankind, good, bad, whatever will be saved

Please show me one verse in accord with:

If you think Love Omnipotent's love is finite & expires like a carton of milk so He can torture most of His creatures called human beings in fire with immortal worms eating them for all endless trillions X trillions X trillions of eons, forever and ever and ever, you will have to prove it.

https://www.tentmaker.org/books/hope_beyond_hell.pdf
http://www.tentmaker.org/articles/unique_proof_for_universalism.html

Lamentations 3:22 and 3:31-33, The steadfast love of the Lord NEVER ceases, his mercies NEVER come to an end. . . .
Lam.3:31 For the Lord will NOT cast off FOR EVER:
32 For if He causes grief, Then He will have compassion According to His abundant lovingkindness. 33 For He does not afflict willingly Or grieve the SONS OF MEN.…
 
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ClementofA

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Repeating one out-of-context verse over and over and over does not prove anything.
Nonsense. All I am asking for is one [1] verse where God, Himself, or Jesus, Himself, say something which can be interpreted as UR.
.....You keep repeating your proof text over and over as if it is some kind of magic mantra. I do believe that Jesus is the savior of the world in the same way as

“the whole world is under the control of the evil one” 1 John 5:19
“Satan, leads the whole world astray” Revelation 12:9
“The whole world … followed the beast” Revelation 13:3
“Diana …, whom all Asia and the world worships.” Acts of the apostles 19:27
Satan is “the god of this world.” 2 Corinthians 4:4


Why didn't you quote the BDAG article re "world"?

Rom 5:18 Consequently, then, as it was through one offense for ALL MANKIND for condemnation, thus also it is through one just act for ALL MANKIND for life's justifying."

Rom 5:19 For even as, through the disobedience of the one man, THE MANY were constituted sinners, thus also, through the obedience of the One, THE MANY shall be constituted just."

Paul makes a parallel between "the many" who were condemned & sinners and those who will be justified & constituted just.

“In Romans 5, the justification is co-extensive with the condemnation. Since all share in one, all share in the other. If only a certain portion of the human race had partaken of the sin of Adam, only a certain portion would partake of the justification of Christ. But St. Paul affirms all to have been involved in one, and all to be included in the other.”

Therefore there is salvation after death. And corrective punishment.

https://www.tentmaker.org/books/hope_beyond_hell.pdf

Jesus shall see of the travail of His soul & be satisfied. Not satisfied a little bit, but the vast majority fried alive forever.

"He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities." (Isa.53:11).

For how "many" (not few) did He "bear their iniquities"? All.

https://www.tentmaker.org/books/hope_beyond_hell.pdf
 
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ClementofA

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The pet scholars such as Young and Strong which you seek out do not show any scholarship supporting their translations such as found in BDAG and LSJ

LSJ gives age lasting as a meaning for aionios.

If Jesus wished to express endless punishment, then He would have used expressions such as "endless", "no end" & "never be saved" as per:

http://www.city-data.com/forum/chri...scripture-expresses-endless-duration-not.html

Jesus didn't use the best words & expressions to describe endlessness in regards to punishment, because He didn't believe in endless punishment.

Examples of aionios as a finite duration in Koine Greek:

https://www.christianforums.com/threads/two-questions.8069145/page-4#post-72837159
 
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ClementofA

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.... I do believe that Jesus is the savior of the world in the same way as

“the whole world is under the control of the evil one” 1 John 5:19
“Satan, leads the whole world astray” Revelation 12:9
“The whole world … followed the beast” Revelation 13:3
“Diana …, whom all Asia and the world worships.” Acts of the apostles 19:27
Satan is “the god of this world.” 2 Corinthians 4:4

In what way is that? According to BDAG Jesus is the Savior of the "world" & by "world" is meant "humanity in general". Jesus Himself would be the only exception as regards "the Savior of the world" (Jn.4:42).

It seems you only quote BDAG when it supports you, not when it opposes you, as here. Which explains why you provided your own opinion instead of posting an authority, BDAG being your favorite.
 
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Pneuma3

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Wrong as usual. Read this carefully Paul, Peter et al. must be interpreted to agree with Jesus not the other way around as you continue to do.

They do agree with Jesus, and as the keep stating Jesus Christ is the saviour of the world they understood when Jesus was speaking of aion and it adjective that Jesus was obviously speaking of an age and that which pertains to an age.

The way you read it is Jesus is only the potential saviour of the world.
 
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Pneuma3

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Please show me one [1] verse which is quoting God, Himself or Jesus, Himself saying that either one will save all mankind good, bad, whatever. There must be at least one verse where God/Jesus say something which can be interpreted as UR.

Already answered here....

Is that suppose to be your answer to my question...

If scripture is the word of God and those scriptures tell us Jesus Christ is the saviour of the world who else but God is telling you Jesus Christ is the saviour of the world? Thus every verse I quoted is a quote from God.

So again I will ask you what greater testimony do you need before you will believe Jesus Christ is the saviour of the world?....

So are you saying scripture is not God speaking to us? I know you can't answer that question because if you say scripture is God speaking to us then my point is made and you have before you the scriptures that plainly state Jesus Christ is the saviour of the world......

which you keep ignoring.
 
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Pneuma3

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I have not waffled on anything. Apparently your Bible only has one verse 1 Tim 4:10. My Bible has 31,172. What I believe is not based on one out-of-context verse.

LOL, I have given you 7 different verse that state plainly Jesus Christ is the saviour of the world.
I also gave you about 50 other verse that show the restitution of all things was spoken by all the holy prophets of old.

You just reject them in faviour of your doctrine.

Why don't you show us all in your 31,172 verses where Jesus says that all humankind will not or cannot be saved.
 
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Pneuma3

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Sorry amigo I will accept you interpretation of aion and aionios when you bring about 40-60 years of Greek scholarship to the table like the scholars I studied under. The pet scholars such as Young and Strong which you seek out do not show any scholarship supporting their translations such as found in BDAG and LSJ see e.g. my [post #586] this thread. Note the blue highlighting which indicates scholarly and historical sources the authors consulted. Unlike Strong and Young who only give their unsupported opinion.

You keep holding up BDAG as the authority on the meaning of words in scripture. I don't need YLT or strong's to see that scripture defines aion and its adjective as having a beginning and an end, thus cannot mean what BDAG and you want it to mean.

Is scripture your authority or is BDAG?
 
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Pneuma3

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Repeating one out-of-context verse over and over and over does not prove anything.
Nonsense. All I am asking for is one [1] verse where God, Himself, or Jesus, Himself, say something which can be interpreted as UR.
.....You keep repeating your proof text over and over as if it is some kind of magic mantra. I do believe that Jesus is the savior of the world in the same way as

“the whole world is under the control of the evil one” 1 John 5:19
“Satan, leads the whole world astray” Revelation 12:9
“The whole world … followed the beast” Revelation 13:3
“Diana …, whom all Asia and the world worships.” Acts of the apostles 19:27
Satan is “the god of this world.” 2 Corinthians 4:4

You keep saying that does not make it out of context. As a matter of fact I asked you to look at the context, which you did not do, because if you did you would have seen Paul was telling tim to hold fast to the doctrine he had received because of the doctrine of devils. Paul then goes on to tell tim exactly what doctrine we are commanded to believe and teach.

Jesus Christ is the saviour of ALL MEN, specially of those that believe.

So if Paul is correct and Jesus Christ is the saviour of all men and we are commanded to teach exactly what what then can be said of the doctrine you keep promoting? Hint Paul mentions it in the first few verses.
 
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Pneuma3

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In what way is that? According to BDAG Jesus is the Savior of the "world" & by "world" is meant "humanity in general". Jesus Himself would be the only exception as regards "the Savior of the world" (Jn.4:42).

It seems you only quote BDAG when it supports you, not when it opposes you, as here. Which explains why you provided your own opinion instead of posting an authority, BDAG being your favorite.

ya he seems to have selective readings, I even had to highlight a few places in BDAG that he missed.
 
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Pneuma3

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LSJ gives age lasting as a meaning for aionios.

If Jesus wished to express endless punishment, then He would have used expressions such as "endless", "no end" & "never be saved" as per:

http://www.city-data.com/forum/chri...scripture-expresses-endless-duration-not.html

Jesus didn't use the best words & expressions to describe endlessness in regards to punishment, because He didn't believe in endless punishment.

Examples of aionios as a finite duration in Koine Greek:

https://www.christianforums.com/threads/two-questions.8069145/page-4#post-72837159

:clap:
 
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Der Alte

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ya he seems to have selective readings, I even had to highlight a few places in BDAG that he missed.
What a joke you accuse me of selective reading and missing information in BDAG while you ignore the entire definition. I could not find where you highlighted anything in BDAG.
LOL, I have given you 7 different verse that state plainly Jesus Christ is the saviour of the world.
I also gave you about 50 other verse that show the restitution of all things was spoken by all the holy prophets of old.
You just reject them in faviour of your doctrine.
Why don't you show us all in your 31,172 verses where Jesus says that all humankind will not or cannot be saved
.
Sorry amigo you are the one who believes in UR if Jesus or God intends to save all mankind good, bad whatever why didn't either one of them unequivocally state that they would definitely, absolutely save all mankind?
 
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Der Alte

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You keep holding up BDAG as the authority on the meaning of words in scripture. I don't need YLT or strong's to see that scripture defines aion and its adjective as having a beginning and an end, thus cannot mean what BDAG and you want it to mean.
Is scripture your authority or is BDAG?
Scripture is my authority but NOT scripture as mistranslated or wrested by by UR-ites who very likely could not parse a Greek verb if their life depended on it. Scripture is my authority for faith and belief, BDAG, which is universally recognized, is my authority on the meaning of Greeks words. I have already given my reasons for placing is far above Young's, Strong's and other UR cherry picked sources.
.....Wrong the scriptures do NOT define aion and its adjective as having a beginning and an end. That aion or aionios are sometimes said to have a beginning or an end is NOT a definition. I have illustrated with 23 verses which literally, actually define or describe aion as meaning eternity and aionios as meaning eternal which have never refuted. Here a few verse which literally, actually define or describe.

John 10:28
(28) And I give unto them eternal [αιωνιον] life; and they shall never [εις τον αιωνα] perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
In this verse “aionion life” and “aiona” are paired with “[no man can] “pluck them out of my hand” If “aionion” and “aiona” are only a finite period then at some time they could be plucked out. “Aionion” and “aiona” by definition here mean eternal.
John 3:15
(15) That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal [αιωνιον] life.
In this verse “aionion” is paired with “shall not perish.” Believers could perish in a finite period, “aionion life” by definition here means eternal life.
John 3:16
(16) For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting [αιωνιον] life.
In this verse “aionion” is paired with “should not perish.” Believers could eventually perish in a finite period, “aionion life” by definition here means eternal or everlasting life.
John 5:24
(24) Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting [αἰώνιος] life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
In this verse “aionios” is paired with “shall not come into condemnation” and “passed from life unto death.” “Aionios” does not mean “a finite period,” by definition here it means “eternal,” unless Jesus lets His followers come into condemnation and pass into death.
Luke 1:33
(33) And he shall reign [βασιλεύω] over the house of Jacob for ever; [αιωνας/aionas] and of his kingdom [βασιλεία] there shall be no end.[τελος/τελος]
In this verse “basileuo aionas” is paired with “basileia shall be no end.” “aionas” cannot be paired with “shall be no end” if it means only “ages” a finite period. “Aionas” by definition here means eternal.



 
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ClementofA

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Rev.5:13 And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are on the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for the eons of the eons.

Isa.45:21b and there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none beside me. 22 Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else. 23 I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear.

Phil.2:9 For this reason also, God highly exalted Him, and bestowed on Him the name which is above every name, 10 so that at the name of Jesus EVERY KNEE WILL BOW, of those who are in heaven and on earth and under the earth, 11 and that every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. (NASB)

"Keep in mind these 2 simple observations:

The text In Isaiah 45:22-23 that inspires 2:9-11 uses the future tense.

(2) The other NT text referring to the worship of everyone “in heaven, on earth, and under the earth” presents a vision of what happens, not of what might happen (Rev. 5:13)."

https://forum.evangelicaluniversalist.com/t/philippians-2-9-11-should-vs-will/4150/82

"“In looking at Phil. 2:10, “That in the name of Jesus every knee should bow,” it may be objected that they “should,” but they will not. But the original here means that they not only “should,” but that they also will; the same construction is in John 3:16 where the Word reads “that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish,” etc. There is no doubt expressed in the word “should,” a believer will certainly not perish. Besides, the passage in Isa. 45:23 states by the divine oath that “every knee shall bow.” “In the Name of Jesus” (Greek and R. V.) means more than simply using the name of Jesus. It signifies, according to the Hebrew idiom, in the very nature of Jesus. This implies not only a change of heart, but that He has bestowed His own nature and spirit. Besides, the confession is that “Jesus Christ is Lord.” No hypocritical confession will satisfy God. “No man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost” (1Cor. 12:3). Further, Phil. 2:11 says that the confession is “to the glory of God the Father.” No confession compulsion and force would glorify God the Father.” The whole text implies a real change of heart to make this confession truly “in the Name of Jesus” and “to the glory of God the Father.” Note, further, that those who “bow” and “confess” are in heaven," “in earth,” and “underearth.” This includes the whole creation of God."

http://www.tentmaker.org/books/is_hell_eternal/ch8_neglected_age.html
 
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Der Alte

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ClementofA said:
Rev.5:13 And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are on the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for the eons of the eons.
And 16 chapters later John wrote this.
Revelation 21:8 But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—they will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death."
Where is the "blessing, and honor, and glory, and power, unto him that sits upon the throne?"
Isa.45:21b and there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none beside me. 22 Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else. 23 I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear.
Now let us read this in-context.
Isaiah 45:23 By myself I have sworn, my mouth has uttered in all integrity a word that will not be revoked: Before me every knee will bow; by me every tongue will swear.
Isaiah 45:24 They will say of me, 'In the LORD alone are deliverance and strength.'" All who have raged against him will come to him and be put to shame.
"Put to shame" not bowing the knee and confessing.
<ClemA>Phil.2:9 For this reason also, God highly exalted Him, and bestowed on Him the name which is above every name, 10 so that at the name of Jesus EVERY KNEE WILL BOW, of those who are in heaven and on earth and under the earth, 11 and that every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. (NASB)
"Keep in mind these 2 simple observations:
The text In Isaiah 45:22-23 that inspires 2:9-11 uses the future tense.
(2) The other NT text referring to the worship of everyone “in heaven, on earth, and under the earth” presents a vision of what happens, not of what might happen (Rev. 5:13)."
“In looking at Phil. 2:10, “That in the name of Jesus every knee should bow,” it may be objected that they “should,” but they will not. But the original here means that they not only “should,” but that they also will; the same construction is in John 3:16 where the Word reads “that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish,” etc. There is no doubt expressed in the word “should,” a believer will certainly not perish. Besides, the passage in Isa. 45:23 states by the divine oath that “every knee shall bow.”<end>
You should choose your "sources" more carefully. When someone unquestioningly, uncritically quotes others they are repeating their same gross mistakes and errors.

John 3:16
(16) For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish [μη αποληται, aas] but have eternal life.
Philippians 2:10
(10) that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, [καμψη, 2ams] in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
First let us note that the verses are not the same construction. Apoletai/perish is an aorist, active, subjunctive and kampse/bow is a second aorist, middle, subjunctive. The subjunctive mood in Greek is the mood of possibility or possibility not absolute. If the writer wanted to state the absolute he would have use the indicative mood not the subjunctive. And FYI the middle voice indicates that the subject is not performing the action but the subject is the recipient of the actions. Google Greek grammar to verify the Greek tense, voice, mood. If the clowns at the websites you love to copy/paste knew the first thing about Greek they would not look so much like the biased fools they have shown themselves to be.
“In the Name of Jesus” (Greek and R. V.) means more than simply using the name of Jesus. It signifies, according to the Hebrew idiom, in the very nature of Jesus. This implies not only a change of heart, but that He has bestowed His own nature and spirit. Besides, the confession is that “Jesus Christ is Lord.”
Meaningless speculation and supposition with no, none, zero support of any kind. Just copy/pasting the same biased rubbish from the same biased, unqualified websites.

No hypocritical confession will satisfy God. “No man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost” (1Cor. 12:3). Further, Phil. 2:11 says that the confession is “to the glory of God the Father.” No confession compulsion and force would glorify God the Father.” The whole text implies a real change of heart to make this confession truly “in the Name of Jesus” and “to the glory of God the Father.” Note, further, that those who “bow” and “confess” are in heaven," “in earth,” and “underearth.” This includes the whole creation of God."
More of the same speculation and supposition. Do you suppose that God cannot compel His defeated enemies, that cursed Him and denied Him in life, to finally acknowledge that He is indeed Lord?
 
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