Is the 1000 year kingdom literal?

[Riberra]

you are misreading the words of Irenaeus... Irenaeus wrote that St. John was alive well into the reign of Domitian, not that he received Revelation's Visions under Domitian

I think Tertullian wrote that St. John was exiled to Patmos by Nero, after being miraculously saved from execution, in such a dramatic manner that even Nero had to commute his sentence to labor

Of course Jonn was alive when he wrote the Book of Revelation.

The majority of Bible Scholars say that John have written the Book of Revelation in 90 AD or 92 AD.

Those who say that John have written the Book of Revelation some years before 70 AD are biased [Preterist] and try to fit some parts of the Book of Revelation with 70 AD.

In case you have missed it:

What have happened in 70 AD was the fulfillment of the Time of Jacobs Trouble for the Jews prophezied by Jeremiah 30:4-7.
As well that the Part about the destruction of Jerusalem and the Temple mentioned in Daniel 9:24-27


Jeremiah 30:4-7
And these are the words that the LORD spake concerning Israel and concerning Judah. For thus saith the LORD; We have heard a voice of trembling, of fear, and not of peace. Ask ye now, and see whether a man doth travail with child? wherefore do I see every man with his hands on his loins, as a woman in travail, and all faces are turned into paleness? Alas! for that day is great, so that none is like it: it is even the time of Jacob’s trouble, but he shall be saved out of it.

Daniel 9:26-27
26,...... and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and even unto the end shall be war; desolations are determined.
27 ,....and upon the wing of abominations [shall come] one that maketh desolate; and even unto the full end, and that determined, shall [wrath] be poured out upon the desolate.

God used the Roman Army [The People of the prince who shall come [Roman Emperor Titus] to punish the Jews for not having accepted Jesus The Messiah ....in the allowed time of 490 years ...70 Weeks [ 490 consequtive years no gap] are decreed upon thy people [The Jews][Daniel 9:24]....

Daniel 9:24-27
24 Seventy weeks [490 years]are decreed upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most holy.

25 Know therefore and discern, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the anointed one, the prince, shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: it shall be built again, with street and moat, even in troublous times.

26 And after the threescore and two weeks shall the anointed one be cut off, and shall have nothing: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and even unto the end shall be war; desolations are determined.

27 And he shall make a firm covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease; and upon the wing of abominations [shall come] one that maketh desolate; and even unto the full end, and that determined, shall [wrath] be poured out upon the desolate.

 

[Erik Nelson]

Of course Jonn was alive when he wrote the Book of Revelation.

The majority of Bible Scholars say that John have written the Book of Revelation in 90 AD or 92 AD.

Those who say that John have written the Book of Revelation some years before 70 AD are biased [Preterist] and try to fit some parts of the Book of Revelation with 70 AD.

In case you have missed it:

What have happened in 70 AD was the fulfillment of the Time of Jacobs Trouble for the Jews prophezied by Jeremiah 30:4-7.
As well that the Part about the destruction of Jerusalem and the Temple mentioned in Daniel 9:24-27


Jeremiah 30:4-7
And these are the words that the LORD spake concerning Israel and concerning Judah. For thus saith the LORD; We have heard a voice of trembling, of fear, and not of peace. Ask ye now, and see whether a man doth travail with child? wherefore do I see every man with his hands on his loins, as a woman in travail, and all faces are turned into paleness? Alas! for that day is great, so that none is like it: it is even the time of Jacob’s trouble, but he shall be saved out of it.

Daniel 9:26-27
26,...... and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and even unto the end shall be war; desolations are determined.
27 ,....and upon the wing of abominations [shall come] one that maketh desolate; and even unto the full end, and that determined, shall [wrath] be poured out upon the desolate.

God used the Roman Army [The People of the prince who shall come [Roman Emperor Titus] to punish the Jews for not having accepted Jesus The Messiah ....in the allowed time of 490 years ...70 Weeks [ 490 consequtive years no gap] are decreed upon thy people [The Jews][Daniel 9:24]....

Daniel 9:24-27
24 Seventy weeks [490 years]are decreed upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most holy.

25 Know therefore and discern, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the anointed one, the prince, shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: it shall be built again, with street and moat, even in troublous times.

26 And after the threescore and two weeks shall the anointed one be cut off, and shall have nothing: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and even unto the end shall be war; desolations are determined.

27 And he shall make a firm covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease; and upon the wing of abominations [shall come] one that maketh desolate; and even unto the full end, and that determined, shall [wrath] be poured out upon the desolate.

Preterism is defensible, not pure bias -- many scholars prefer pre-70AD dates for Rev, also:

• Rev depicts physical temple still standing (< 70 AD)
• Rev names the current emperor as Nero, the 6th Caesar (54-68 AD)
• Rev describes the Beast (pagan Rome) having a "mortal wound healed" (Fire of Rome, 64 AD)
• Rev describes apostate Judaea as a "harlot riding the beast" until the Beast turns on her (empress Poppaea Sabina was unexpectedly kicked to death by Nero in 65 AD along with her unborn Jewish son)

Ergo, Rev was written after the great fire of July 64 AD (which Nero & Sabina blamed on the Christians) but before Sabina's execution in 65 AD, "in the summer" yet "after the Quinquennial Neronia" games for Nero's 13 October coronation anniversary...

i.e. sometime between Aug 64 AD - Sept 65 AD (after the Romans had time to organize a response & start persecuting Christians; and, evidently, Nero began the games a month or more prior to his actual coronation anniversary, and Sabina quarreled with him over spending too much time at the games, evoking his enraged outburst)

and all that would be exactly the time of Nero & Sabina's great persecution of Christians, which brought about the inverted Crucifixion of St. Peter, the beheading of St. Paul, and the attempted boiling in oil of St. John... as part of the "entertainment" of the Quinquennial Neronia games

as Nero & Sabina sought to execute all of the "pillars of the Church"

-----------------

But in any case you're being preterist, too...

yes, I agree, Dan 9 = 70 AD with no "gap" (as JC stated in the Olivet Discourse, clearly referencing Dan 9)

yes, Vespasian (and his son Titus) was a prince who came, and was even acknowledged as the prophesied Messiah by Josephus, evidently also from Dan 9

 

[Riberra]

Preterism is defensible, not pure bias -- many scholars prefer pre-70AD dates for Rev, also:

• Rev depicts physical temple still standing (< 70 AD)

It is very unlikely that the Temple Mentioned in Revelation 11 Refers to the 70 AD Temple ...because it written that there will be Two Witnesses who will prophecy during 1230 Days ...then they will be killed

• [*]Rev names the current emperor as Nero, the 6th Caesar (54-68 AD)
  [*]

• Can you show us where in the Book of Revelation..there is mention of Nero ?

• [*]Rev describes the Beast (pagan Rome) having a "mortal wound healed" (Fire of Rome, 64 AD)
  [*]

• The Beast of Revelation 13 cannot be Pagan Rome because it say that the Reign of The Beast will have a duration of 42 Months.

• [*]Rev describes apostate Judaea as a "harlot riding the beast" until the Beast turns on her (empress Poppaea Sabina was unexpectedly kicked to death by Nero in 65 AD along with her unborn Jewish son)
  [*]

• We ACTUALLY have The Modern Apostate State of Israel who have been created in 1948 who will fulling everything about ''the harlot Riding the Beast''...

But in any case you're being preterist, too...

yes, I agree, Dan 9 = 70 AD with no "gap" (as JC stated in the Olivet Discourse, clearly referencing Dan 9)

yes, Vespasian (and his son Titus) was a prince who came, and was even acknowledged as the prophesied Messiah by Josephus, evidently also from Dan 9

Preterist promote that nearly everything written in the Book of Revelation have been fulfilled in 70 AD and in the First Century][your example about Nero..../Pagan Rome that you try to associate with the Beast Wounded at the Head Mentioned in Revelation 13 demonstrate it] ..

That is defferent than demonstrating by a + b that what is described in Daniel 9:24-27 have been fullfilled in the time of Jesus[The promised Messiah] and the Apostles .

 

[BABerean2]

Preterism is defensible, not pure bias -- many scholars prefer pre-70AD dates for Rev, also:

• Rev depicts physical temple still standing (< 70 AD)
• Rev names the current emperor as Nero, the 6th Caesar (54-68 AD)
• Rev describes the Beast (pagan Rome) having a "mortal wound healed" (Fire of Rome, 64 AD)
• Rev describes apostate Judaea as a "harlot riding the beast" until the Beast turns on her (empress Poppaea Sabina was unexpectedly kicked to death by Nero in 65 AD along with her unborn Jewish son)

Ergo, Rev was written after the great fire of July 64 AD (which Nero & Sabina blamed on the Christians) but before Sabina's execution in 65 AD, "in the summer" yet "after the Quinquennial Neronia" games for Nero's 13 October coronation anniversary...

i.e. sometime between Aug 64 AD - Sept 65 AD (after the Romans had time to organize a response & start persecuting Christians; and, evidently, Nero began the games a month or more prior to his actual coronation anniversary, and Sabina quarreled with him over spending too much time at the games, evoking his enraged outburst)

and all that would be exactly the time of Nero & Sabina's great persecution of Christians, which brought about the inverted Crucifixion of St. Peter, the beheading of St. Paul, and the attempted boiling in oil of St. John... as part of the "entertainment" of the Quinquennial Neronia games

as Nero & Sabina sought to execute all of the "pillars of the Church"

-----------------

But in any case you're being preterist, too...

yes, I agree, Dan 9 = 70 AD with no "gap" (as JC stated in the Olivet Discourse, clearly referencing Dan 9)

yes, Vespasian (and his son Titus) was a prince who came, and was even acknowledged as the prophesied Messiah by Josephus, evidently also from Dan 9

If you are here to promote Full-Preterism, be honest and come on out with it.

.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Erik Nelson said: ↑
Preterism is defensible, not pure bias -- many scholars prefer pre-70AD dates for Rev, also:

If you are here to promote Full-Preterism, be honest and come on out with it.
.

Can one view Reve 1 thru 19 [but not 20 thru 22] as fulfilled still be considered a non-full preterist? Just wondering......

 

[Riberra]

If you claim that Revelation 1 Through Revelation 19 have been fulfilled in 70 AD and during the First Century, then you are a full preterist.

Just an example :
can you demonstrate that the Coming of Jesus mentioned in Revelation 19 have been fulfilled in the First Century ?...or even in the 2,000 years of History since Jesus have ascended to Heaven.?

If you cannot do that ...then you have been fooled by full preterist.

-It is pleasant to the ears to think that the bad stuff is past...no problem [70 AD]

-That is like the pre-tribbers who hope [and pray] that the tribulation begin soon because they believe [wrongly] that they will be SUPPOSEDLY being raptured to Heaven few seconds before the bad stuff happen.

The Christians who will have the misfortune to be alive on the Earth during the End Times Events [The Great Tribulation]will have to go through it .The 42 months Reign of the Beast mentioned in Revelation 13 will be the test showing if you have what is needed to be part of the Saints or if you will belong to the Beast/AC by worshiping the Beast and his image and by taking the mark to save your life.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

If you are UNABLE TO PROVE that REVELATION 1 THROUGH REVELATION 19 HAVE BEEN FULFILLED AS IT IS WRITTEN IN THE BOOK OF REVELATION INCLUDING THE COMING OF JESUS for the Battle of Armageddon mentioned in Revelation 19 ....
And that you claim that Revelation 1 Through Revelation 19 have all been fulfilled in 70 AD and during the First Century then you are a full preterist.

I believe I can prove it just using the Gospel of Luke......

You and/or other are most welcome to refute what I have posted on these threads:

https://www.christianforums.com/threads/luk-19-luke-21-and-reve-18-same-event.8076261/
Luk 19, Luk 21 and Reve 18 same event?

https://www.christianforums.com/threads/captivity-and-sword-luke-21-24-revelation-13-10.8073340/
Captivity and sword Luk 21:24 Reve 13:10

https://www.christianforums.com/threads/daniel-12-1-and-luke-21-23-same-event.8076171/
Dan 12:1 and Luk 21:23 same event?

 

[Riberra]

I believe I can prove it just using the Gospel of Luke......

You and/or other are most welcome to refute what I have posted on these threads:

https://www.christianforums.com/threads/luk-19-luke-21-and-reve-18-same-event.8076261/
Luk 19, Luk 21 and Reve 18 same event?

https://www.christianforums.com/threads/captivity-and-sword-luke-21-24-revelation-13-10.8073340/
Captivity and sword Luk 21:24 Reve 13:10

https://www.christianforums.com/threads/daniel-12-1-and-luke-21-23-same-event.8076171/
Dan 12:1 and Luk 21:23 same event?

So you claim that Jesus have RETURNED ON THE EARTH ...and that the Battle of Armageddon described in Revelation 19 have happened .

PROVE IT RIGHT HERE RIGHT NOW....I WILL NOT GO READING THROUGH ALL YOUR LINKS TO FIND NOTHING BUT ONLY SPIRITUALISATION ... COMING FROM PASSAGES ABOUT JESUS SITTING AT THE RIGHT HAND OF HIS FATHER IN HEAVEN ,AND REIGING FROM HEAVEN.

PROVE US that Jesus have returned on the Earth AND THAT THE BATTLE OF ARMAGEDDON HAVE HAPPENED as described in Revelation 19 ....OR SHUT UP !

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

So you claim that Jesus have returned on the Earth ...and that the Battle of Armageddon described in Revelation 19 have happened .

PROVE IT RIGHT HERE RIGHT NOW....I WILL NOT GO READING THROUGH ALL YOUR LINKS TO FIND NOTHING BUT ONLY SPIRITUALISATION .

Why are you afraid to go thru my links?

 

[Riberra]

Why are you afraid to go thru my links?

I have no time to waste .....

PROVE US that Jesus have returned on the Earth AND THAT THE BATTLE OF ARMAGEDDON HAVE HAPPENED as described in Revelation 19 ....OR SHUT UP !

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

I have no time to waste .....

PROVE US that Jesus have returned on the Earth AND THAT THE BATTLE OF ARMAGEDDON HAVE HAPPENED as described inRevelation 19 ....OR SHUT UP !

Whoa! Can you shout any louder?

 

[Riberra]

Whoa! Can you shout any louder?

As i have expected you are a total waste of time.... it is easy to detect an internet throll.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

I have no time to waste .....

PROVE US that Jesus have returned on the Earth AND THAT THE BATTLE OF ARMAGEDDON HAVE HAPPENED as described in Revelation 19 ....OR SHUT UP !

Whoa! Can you shout any louder?

As i have expected you are a total waste of time.... it is easy to detect an internet throll.

I was about to say the same about you.....But being a Christian, I refrained.......

 

[Riberra]

I was about to say the same about you.....But being a Christian, I refrained.......

Based on your replies you are about 12 years old ...you should go play out in schoolyard...Does your mother know that you are posting on that board ?

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Based on your replies you are about 12 years old ...you should go play out in schoolyard...Does your mother know that you are posting on that board ?

Jesus was 12 years old in Luk 2:42, so I take your personal attack against me in a positive light, and i will pray for you instead of reporting you [at least for now]........

Luke 2:
42
And when He was twelve years old, they went up to Jerusalem according to the custom of the feast.
46
Now so it was that after three days they found Him in the temple, sitting in the midst of the teachers, both listening to them and asking them questions.
47
And all who heard Him were astonished at His understanding and answers.

 

[Riberra]

Jesus was 12 years old in Luk 2:42, so I take your personal attack against me in a positive light, and i will pray for you instead of reporting you [at least for now]........

Luke 2:
42
And when He was twelve years old, they went up to Jerusalem according to the custom of the feast.
46
Now so it was that after three days they found Him in the temple, sitting in the midst of the teachers, both listening to them and asking them questions.
47
And all who heard Him were astonished at His understanding and answers.

You are not Jesus.

Instead of reporting you for promoting FULL PRETERIST [FOR NOW]. I WILL PRAY FOR YOU.


So, you still have nothing....you do the claims you need to prove them .

PROVE US that Jesus have returned on the Earth AND THAT THE BATTLE OF ARMAGEDDON HAVE HAPPENED as described inRevelation 19 ...

 

[ac28]

I appreciate the linguistics lesson.

Are you trying to say Christ is not the temple of the New Covenant?

1 Peter 2:4-10

.

BABel,

Have you wised up and become a dispensationalist yet?

All I said was that verse is a figure of speech. If I were there, you could read my lips.

The New Covenant was manifested, briefly, for about 33 years, from Acts 2 through the end of Acts, in the form of the gifts of the Spirit. Of course, when Israel was set aside in Ac 28:25-27, everything Israel went with it: the new covenant, the rapture, the Acts church, everything.

 

[ac28]

a dud

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

BABel,

Have you wised up and become a dispensationalist yet?
.

AKA the "spider web" doctrine...

http://www.christianforums.com/forums/dispensationalism.424/
Dispensationalism,

Everything you always wanted to know about the Dispy doctrine but were afraid to ask...and for good reason!!!!

http://graceonlinelibrary.org/dispensationalism/
.........Dispensationalism has a pervasive influence not only extensively, but also intensively.
It is usually the case that those who embrace its teachings as a system are affected in almost every area of their theological thinking.
So pervasive is its effect on those who have become its pupils, that even those who have come to see the error of its basic presuppositions testify that dispensational cobwebs have remained in their thinking for a long time after the initial sweeping took place. .......

No evaluation of Dispensational Premillennialism may ignore its teaching of a two-phased return of Christ, the first phase of which is commonly known as the rapture. This feature is its…

 

[BABerean2]

BABel,

Have you wised up and become a dispensationalist yet?

All I said was that verse is a figure of speech. If I were there, you could read my lips.

The New Covenant was manifested, briefly, for about 33 years, from Acts 2 through the end of Acts, in the form of the gifts of the Spirit. Of course, when Israel was set aside in Ac 28:25-27, everything Israel went with it: the new covenant, the rapture, the Acts church, everything.

2Co 3:6 who also made us sufficient as ministers of the new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.
2Co 3:7 But if the ministry of death, written and engraved on stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of the glory of his countenance, which glory was passing away,
2Co 3:8 how will the ministry of the Spirit not be more glorious?


Does your church body observe the Lord's Supper, or do you think it has also passed away?

Mat 26:28 For this is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

.