One Church?

JESUS=G.O.A.T

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Some people think it's a great sin that we have a lot of denominations, rather than just one.

If there was just one denomination, the leader, or leaders, of that denomination would be extremely powerful people. Would that be a good thing?
the church is anyone in the body of Christ...regardless of denomination I believe if you're saved you're part of his church
 
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bekkilyn

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John Wesley would prescribe holiness and purity. We need Divine Love, Divine Faith, Grace & the Promises of God. Without this the storms of life will destroy us.

Yes, but how are they all going to fit inside the building? Even the local Walmart wouldn't hold every single proclaimed Christian in the world even if they all did somehow agree to convert to a Wesleyan denomination, and then think of all the logistics of travel from people who are on opposite sides of the world from me. Even if we put everyone outside, they probably wouldn't even all physically fit inside this *county* much less the Walmart.
 
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dreadnought

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That would be contrary to what Paul wrote in Philippians.

So if there is any encouragement in Christ, any incentive of love, any participation in the Spirit, any affection and sympathy, complete my joy by being of the same mind, having the same love, being in full accord and of one mind.

Only let your manner of life be worthy of the gospel of Christ, so that whether I come and see you or am absent, I may hear of you that you stand firm in one spirit, with one mind striving side by side for the faith of the gospel, and not frightened in anything by your opponents​
People who follow Jesus have those attributes, but not everybody in the church is following Jesus.
 
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dreadnought

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"Office" is irrelevant. We are a royal priesthood and we all have direct access to His Spirit.

A believer always has the choice between following Christ Jesus in the direction of Love, and following another person in another direction.

When it becomes apparant that the person of "office" is leading away from the Love of Christ, should we not keep our eyes on Christ Jesus?
Office isn't irrelevant at all. Pastors have great influence - they can lead many people astray.
 
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dreadnought

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the church is anyone in the body of Christ...regardless of denomination I believe if you're saved you're part of his church
Yes, there is the church, defined by those sincerely following the Lord, and there are the denominations. I am referring to the denominations.
 
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W2L

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Then you ARE part of a church.

Just don't be alone in your faith and worship. Loners can too easily fall into error and heresy, other people are the check against that. They can also help you when you are in need.
Anyone can fall into heresy, even church folks.
 
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Tutorman

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The Orthodox trace back to the Apostles (as do Catholics but the Orthodox are closer) and have not changed unlike Catholicism and the mess that is Protestantism
 
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ViaCrucis

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I am not an advocate of schism - not in my church, anyway - but if the leadership of a church is leading the church astray, and they refuse to repent, perhaps your are better off starting a new church.

The two statements you've made in this post are directly contradictory. Because you ARE being an advocate of schism by saying that people should go and start their own church.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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dreadnought

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The two statements you've made in this post are directly contradictory. Because you ARE being an advocate of schism by saying that people should go and start their own church.

-CryptoLutheran
I never said that. I just raised the question of whether or not it would be okay to start a new church, if the leaders of your church were leading their congregations astray, and refused to repent.
 
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Anguspure

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Office isn't irrelevant at all. Pastors have great influence - they can lead many people astray.
A pastor who is following Jesus has great influence.
A pastor who is not following is a strong influence in the other direction.
In both cases the office is the same but what is relevant is the direction of travel.
 
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ViaCrucis

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Anyone who bothers to read the history of the Christian faith will quickly notice that the historic practices and beliefs are right there in the earliest strata of Christian history--with the apostles and earliest Christian communities.

When modern folk decide to reinvent the wheel and decide they are going to try and recreate the "New Testament Church" they are merely creating a form of Christianity in their own likeness and then forcing their own opinions and views upon the ancient Church.

If you want to know what Christian faith and practiced looked like in the earliest days of our religion, then look at what the historical Christian communions do, and what they all have in common. Because it is precisely the same things we see at any point in Christian history, from the 1st century to the 21st century.

If you ignore history and try and force your own ideas onto the New Testament, then you can make the "New Testament Church" look like literally anything you want it to--because it will always look like what you want it to, instead of what it actually was.

And, no, no modern church is identical to how things were in the 1st century, and that's because you can't recreate historical circumstances. The earliest Christians lived in a very particular historical context--namely the Roman Empire of the 1st century, and they were forced by circumstances to do certain things a certain way. For example, no you won't find any basilicas in the 1st century because Christians were by and large seen by the Romans as an illegal cult, and so Christians gathered in the homes of the wealthiest members of the community, or found other places to gather as they were able. New Testament evidence suggests that many of the early meeting places were the homes of wealthy women (probably widows), as suggested by Paul in Romans 16 and in the Third Epistle of John. By the third century, however, we can see that Christian meeting places, such as in Dura-Europos, were specifically outfitted for Christian use. The Dura-Europos church is a modified Roman villa, with a dedicated baptistery, and space for Christian worship. You can't recreate the historical circumstances of when Christianity was a marginalized often illegal minority religion in the Roman Empire and surrounding territories of the Mediterranean and Middle East. Those conditions no longer exist. What we can see, however, is how in spite of changing conditions--time and place--there has been a resolute insistence on the faith and practices of Christians since the very beginning. The New Testament and Apostolic faith has been retained for two thousand years, and we can see that throughout the historical record, all the way from the earliest times to our times.

Reinventing the wheel does not get us back to apostolic faith, it is only a reinvention of the wheel, making it emphatically non-apostolic, and many times, utterly contrary and antithetical to what the apostles taught and did.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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W2L

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The two statements you've made in this post are directly contradictory. Because you ARE being an advocate of schism by saying that people should go and start their own church.

-CryptoLutheran
Freedom in Christ, not denominations. Thats what i have. If others will boast in their denominations then i can boast in the Lord.
 
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JESUS=G.O.A.T

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Yes, there is the church, defined by those sincerely following the Lord, and there are the denominations. I am referring to the denominations.
oh are you asking like which denomination is the church?
 
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dreadnought

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oh are you asking like which denomination is the church?
No, the point of the thread is to determine if it is the Lord's will that we have one denomination on earth today, or does he like it the way it is, with many denominations?
 
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W2L

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The earliest Christians lived in a very particular historical context--namely the Roman Empire of the 1st century, and they were forced by circumstances to do certain things a certain way.
And we are also forced by circumstances. For example, i don't see catholicism taught in scripture so i dont follow it. I follow Christ instead.
 
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bekkilyn

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No, the point of the thread is to determine if it is the Lord's will that we have one denomination on earth today, or does he like it the way it is, with many denominations?

The Lord does seem to like the body having many members rather than us all being composed of the same part. Based on what we've already seen historically with Christianity all forced to serve under one supreme human being within a giant, corrupt human organization, it's probably a good thing to have many different body parts, whether they be larger parts such as denominations, or smaller parts such as individuals.
 
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dreadnought

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The Lord does seem to like the body having many members rather than us all being composed of the same part. Based on what we've already seen historically with Christianity all forced to serve under one supreme human being within a giant, corrupt human organization, it's probably a good thing to have many different body parts, whether they be larger parts such as denominations, or smaller parts such as individuals.
That's sort of the way I look at it.
 
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bekkilyn

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That's sort of the way I look at it.

It still doesn't mean I think the UMC should split into multiple denominations because it wouldn't be for core theological reasons, but in general, I see multiple denominations as a benefit overall, and a benefit for witnessing for Jesus. If one denomination cannot reach a person, then perhaps another denomination might be more successful. God created us to all be unique so we're all not going to like or be attracted to the same things.

But we're still already a part of Christ's true church...the body of all who follow him and accept him as Lord and Savior.
 
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ViaCrucis

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I never said that. I just raised the question of whether or not it would be okay to start a new church, if the leaders of your church were leading their congregations astray, and refused to repent.

There are channels for discipline when it comes to clergy teaching heresy or misbehaving. Including removing them from their post and defrocking them, if necessary.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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ViaCrucis

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And we are also forced by circumstances. For example, i don't see catholicism taught in scripture so i dont follow it. I follow Christ instead.

And I don't see W2Lism in Scripture, so I don't follow that either. I follow Christ.

-CryptoLUtheran
 
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