Eschatological and Millennial Theories and their problems.

[BABerean2]

Do you think the prophets in the OT got a lot of things wrong then?

No. They did not get it wrong.
But they did not see as clearly as the writers of the New Testament.

For example, John saw at least part of Zechariah 12:10 being fulfilled at Calvary in the verse below.

Joh 19:37 And again another Scripture says, "THEY SHALL LOOK ON HIM WHOM THEY PIERCED."


How many times do you see the name of Christ in the Old Testament?
But, what did He say on the road to Emmaus in Luke 24:25-27?

The Old Testament is filled with the types and shadows of the New Testament.

Col 2:16 So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths,
Col 2:17 which are a shadow of things to come, but the substance is of Christ.

Take a picture of an object's shadow, and then take a picture of the real thing and compare them.
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[BABerean2]

One question:
Do you believe that the 42 Months Reign of The Beast [Revelation 13] will PRECEDE THE COMING OF JESUS ?

Yes.

But, remember that the Book of Revelation is not in chronological order.

Rev 6:12 I looked when He opened the sixth seal, and behold, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became like blood.
Rev 6:13 And the stars of heaven fell to the earth, as a fig tree drops its late figs when it is shaken by a mighty wind.
Rev 6:14 Then the sky receded as a scroll when it is rolled up, and every mountain and island was moved out of its place.
Rev 6:15 And the kings of the earth, the great men, the rich men, the commanders, the mighty men, every slave and every free man, hid themselves in the caves and in the rocks of the mountains,
Rev 6:16 and said to the mountains and rocks, "Fall on us and hide us from the face of Him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb!
Rev 6:17 For the great day of His wrath has come, and who is able to stand?"

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[keras]

But, remember that the Book of Revelation is not in chronological order.

Purely your opinion.
Some of Revelation are 'flashbacks', but the Seals, Trumpets and Bowls are sequential.
The Sixth Seal, followed by the Seventh Seal time gap are the next prophesied events we can expect. The 7 Trumpets and 7 Bowls of the Great Tribulation will happen during the last 42 months before Jesus returns.

 

[Douggg]

More guesswork and surmise! This false teaching has gone the rounds, without anyone really studying the context.
Just read Isaiah 66:7-14 and realize that it cannot apply to the current State of Israel, which took 50 years from start to fruition.

keras, you are in denial.

 

[Douggg]

It was the Rothschild family that established the modern State of Israel, through the Balfour Declaration. That is a historical fact.



Go ahead and ignore the descendant of David being their "King" "forever" in the Book of Ezekiel.
Do you think the Israelis are going to find one of King David's bones and clone him?

And ignore the "everlasting" covenant.

Then ignore them being in that land "forever".
How long do you think "forever" lasts?

And then ignore the verses below and then maybe you will make the modern Two Peoples of God doctrine work.


Gal 4:25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.
Gal 4:26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.


Heb 11:15 And truly, if they had been mindful of that country from whence they came out, they might have had opportunity to have returned.
Heb 11:16 But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.

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Bible prophecies are taking place before your eyes - and you are in denial.

 

[keras]

keras, you are in denial.

We are just a tad fed up with comments like this.

Have you carefully read Isaiah 66:7-14? If you did, you would know that the idea that this prophecy belongs to the Jewish State of Israel, cannot be right.
It is in fact just another false teaching, made to support the lie of the 'rapture to heaven' theory.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Bible prophecies are taking place before your eyes - and you are in denial.

keras, you are in denial.

Is there anyone on here you agree with on your bible prophecy views?
This thread is more entertaining than edifying............
easier to just see Jerusalem 70ad in Revelation then you can start to spread the Good News of the Gospel instead of the Bad News...

 

[Riberra]

Yes.

But, remember that the Book of Revelation is not in chronological order.

Rev 6:12 I looked when He opened the sixth seal, and behold, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became like blood.
Rev 6:13 And the stars of heaven fell to the earth, as a fig tree drops its late figs when it is shaken by a mighty wind.
Rev 6:14 Then the sky receded as a scroll when it is rolled up, and every mountain and island was moved out of its place.
Rev 6:15 And the kings of the earth, the great men, the rich men, the commanders, the mighty men, every slave and every free man, hid themselves in the caves and in the rocks of the mountains,
Rev 6:16 and said to the mountains and rocks, "Fall on us and hide us from the face of Him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb!
Rev 6:17 For the great day of His wrath has come, and who is able to stand?"

Whatever that you believe that the Book of Revelation is in chronological order or not...The 42 months Reign of the Beast will precede the Coming of Jesus .So, ALL people [Christians Included ]who will have the misfortune to be alive on the Earth at that moment will be under the Judgment of Revelation 14:9-12 Do you agree with that ?

Revelation 14:9-12

9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, IF ANY MAN worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,

10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:11And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

12 Here Is The Patience Of The Saints: Here Are They That Keep The Commandments Of God, And The Faith of Jesus.

 

[jgr]

The 1948 rebirth of Israel as a nation again in a single day is in Isaiah 66:7-9. It is in preparation before the second coming of Jesus.

The Israel of 1948 was the result of years of guerrilla terrorism and political subterfuge. It is the antithesis of all that Christ proclaimed concerning the nature and composition of His Kingdom.

There is, however, a New Testament nation that was literally born in a day.


Matthew 21:43
Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.

1 Peter 2:9
But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;

Acts 2:1
And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place.

Acts 2:41
Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.


That nation is the Church, and the day was the Day of Pentecost.

 

[claninja]

but the Seals, Trumpets and Bowls are sequential.

So the mountains and islands of the earth disappear twice?

The sky vanished like a scroll that is being rolled up, and every mountain and island was removed from its place.
Revelation 6:14 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=Revelation 6:14&version=ESV

And every island fled away, and no mountains were to be found.
Revelation 16:20 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=Revelation 16:20&version=ESV

 

[Riberra]

So the mountains and islands of the earth disappear twice?

The sky vanished like a scroll that is being rolled up, and every mountain and island was removed from its place.
Revelation 6:14 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=Revelation 6:14&version=ESV

And every island fled away, and no mountains were to be found.
Revelation 16:20 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=Revelation 16:20&version=ESV

The KJV say for the 6 Th Seal Great Earthquake
Revelation 6:12-14
12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

14 ... and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.

Do you know that the big earthquake 8.9 at the Richter magnitude scale, who have happened under the ocean near Japan few years ago have MOVED the Japan Island out of its place by few feet .[NOTE I am not saying the Japan earthquake is the earthquake prophesied to happen the 6Th seal]

Quake moved Japan coast 8 feet, shifted Earth's axis
http://r.search.yahoo.com/_ylt=AwrJ...dex.html/RK=2/RS=oGZEOYsPKaihWgBoCXMA1LNeL7k-
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So there is a difference between the island and the mountains moved out of their place at the 6Th Seal ,and the Islands and Mountains not found at all as described AT THE 7 TH Vial Revelation 16:17-20.

The 7 TH VIAL Earthquake [Revelation 16:17-20] will be EXTREMELY MORE POWERFUL than the one happening at the opening of the 6Th seal

 

[Douggg]

The Israel of 1948 was the result of years of guerrilla terrorism and political subterfuge. It is the antithesis of all that Christ proclaimed concerning the nature and composition of His Kingdom.

It is the nation of Israel. It is not the Kingdom of God.

That nation is the Church, and the day was the Day of Pentecost.

The church is not the nation of Israel.

 

[BABerean2]

12 Here Is The Patience Of The Saints: Here Are They That Keep The Commandments Of God, And The Faith of Jesus.

OK.

I would say that passage applies to all of those alive during the tribulation period, since the "Saints" are found in verse 12.

Just as long as you are not claiming the commandments are the Sinai Covenant, based on Hebrews 7:12, and Hebrews 8:6-13.

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[Douggg]

Is there anyone on here you agree with on your bible prophecy views?
This thread is more entertaining than edifying............
easier to just see Jerusalem 70ad in Revelation then you can start to spread the Good News of the Gospel instead of the Bad News...

As far as Israel being a nation again in 1948 as a major sign that we are living in the end times, as part of fulfillment of bible prophecy, I think there are many that agree with that view.

Why don't you start a yes or no poll thread regarding that issue?

 

[Riberra]

OK.

I would say that passage applies to all of those alive during the tribulation period, since the "Saints" are found in verse 12.

Just as long as you are not claiming the commandments are the Sinai Covenant, based on Hebrews 7:12, and Hebrews 8:6-13.

I am NOT CLAIMING the commandments are the Sinai Covenant, based on Hebrews 7:12, and Hebrews 8:6-13

The text is about those who keep the Testimony of Jesus ...Thus refers to Christians.
Revelation 14:12
12 Here Is The Patience Of The Saints: Here Are They That Keep The Commandments Of God, And The Faith of Jesus.

One question:
are you saying that the 10 commandments have been nullified ?
Or that The New Covenant still include the 10 commandments ?

 

[BABerean2]

Bible prophecies are taking place before your eyes - and you are in denial.

You saw, and heard Lord Jacob Rothschild plainly reveal that his family created the modern State of Israel, and you say I am the one in denial...


Pastor Chuck Baldwin used to be a Dispensationalist, because that is what he was taught in Bible College.

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[BABerean2]

I am NOT CLAIMING the commandments are the Sinai Covenant, based on Hebrews 7:12, and Hebrews 8:6-13

The text is about those who keep the Testimony of Jesus ...

Then we are in agreement on this passage, so far.

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[Riberra]

Then we are in agreement on this passage, so far.

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One question:
Are you saying that the 10 Commandments have been nullified ?

Personally i believe that The New Covenant still include the 10 Commandments...The New Covenant provide the possibility to ALL WHO ACCEPT JESUS CHRIST AS THEIR LORD AND SAVIOR TO BE SAVED BY FAITH IN JESUS.

While that the Sinai Covenant have only the Jews who respected the covenant to be saved.

 

[BABerean2]

One question:
Are you saying that the 10 Commandments have been nullified ?

Personally i believe that The New Covenant still include the 10 Commandments.

Nobody alive today has ever broken the 4th commandment, which is the "sign" of the Sinai Covenant. (See Colossians 2:16-17)
Christ is the Sabbath in the New Covenant.

In Galatians 4:24-31 Paul compelled the Galatian believers to "cast out" the Sinai covenant of "bondage".

A contrast between the Sinai Covenant and the New Covenant is found in 2 Corinthians 3:6-8, and Hebrews 12:18-24.

We are under the Law of Christ, not for our salvation, but for our conduct.

It is a higher standard.

Mat 5:27 "You have heard that it was said to those of old, 'YOU SHALL NOT COMMIT ADULTERY.'
Mat 5:28 But I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart.


Joh 15:10 If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father's commandments and abide in His love.
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[Riberra]

Nobody alive today has ever broken the 4th commandment, which is the "sign" of the Sinai Covenant. (See Colossians 2:16-17)
Christ is the Sabbath in the New Covenant.

In Galatians 4:24-31 Paul compelled the Galatian believers to "cast out" the Sinai covenant of "bondage".

A contrast between the Sinai Covenant and the New Covenant is found in 2 Corinthians 3:6-8, and Hebrews 12:18-24.

The Sinai Covenant have far more things that the Jews were forced to do to be saved than only the 10 Commandments ....

So you will have to enlighten us about what is mean in Revelation 14:12 by Here Are They That Keep The Commandments Of God,IF AS YOU THINK THAT ITS NOT TALKING ABOUT THE 10 COMMANDMENTS ....AND THE FAITH IN JESUS ?

Revelation 14:12
12 Here Is The Patience Of The Saints: Here Are They That Keep The Commandments Of God, AND The Faith of Jesus.