Eschatological and Millennial Theories and their problems.

[DavidPT]

Like many others, you are taking the less clear vision of Zechariah, and ignoring the clearer texts of the New Testament to make your doctrine work.

Who is both the King and the tabernacle in verse 16, based on the New Testament?

There are two groups above.

Those faithful to the Lord and those who are not.

Those faithful to Christ will keep the feast of tabernacles forever, since He is the tabernacle.
He will tabernacle among us.

The others will be punished.

Do you think Jesus was wrong in Matthew 25:31-46?

Do you think Paul was wrong in 2 Timothy 4:1?

Do you think John recorded Revelation 11:18 incorrectly, when he said it was the time of the judgment of the dead?

.

Right back at you then since two can play at this game. Do you think the prophets in the OT got a lot of things wrong then?

In order for your interpretations to be credible, you first have to demonstrate how your interpretations don't contradict anything, such as things OT prophets predicted.

 

[Riberra]

Though you didn't ask me this as well, still I would like to somewhat address this. The 42 months reign of the beast does precede the 2nd coming. But as to the 7th trump though, that happens at the end of it's reign. Look at Revelation 11:19

Revelation 11:19 And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.

Where would you fit this part----and an earthquake, and great hail---within the timeline laid out in Revelation 13? This in verse 19 is meaning once the 7th trumpet has already sounded. When I look at Revelation 13, I see nothing hinting at any earthquake, and great hail, occurring within the 42 month reign of the beast. Yet Revelation 11:19 has to fit somewhere. I conclude it fits at the end of the reign of the beast.

All the Earthquakes CITED IN the Book of Revelation WILL BE CAUSED BY GOD's ACTION] and are markers of Events and will happen at the exact moment cited....Example the Great Earthquake of the 6Th Seal [Revelation 6:12-14]....is not the same Earthquake mentioned to happen during the 7 Th Vial [Revelation 16:17-20] The 7 Th Vial is TOTAL DEVASTATION.. THE CITIES OF THE NATIONS FEEL [

 

[DavidPT]

All the Earthquakes CITED IN the Book of Revelation WILL BE CAUSED BY GOD's ACTION] and are markers of Events and will happen at the exact moment cited....Example the Great Earthquake of the 6Th Seal [Revelation 6]....is not the same Earthquake mentioned to happen during the 7 Th Vial [Revelation 16].

None of that matters as far as Revelation 11:19 is concerned. That earthquake, and great hail, happens after the 7th trumpet has sounded. What one needs to ask themselves, what is the purpose for the great hail at this point in time? Does it not have to do with the following?-----And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come. Compare that to the 42 month reign of the beast in Revelation 13. Does it appear that the nations are angry anywhere in that chapter?

 

[Riberra]

None of that matters as far as Revelation 11:19 is concerned. That earthquake, and great hail, happens after the 7th trumpet has sounded. What one needs to ask themselves, what is the purpose for the great hail at this point in time? Does it not have to do with the following?-----And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come. Compare that to the 42 month reign of the beast in Revelation 13. Does it appear that the nations are angry anywhere in that chapter?

The Nations were [ARE] angry [AGAINST GOD]because of the plagues of the 6 Trumpets and the plagues of the Two Witnesses who will have preceded the 7 Th Trumpet.

Revelation 11:14-15
The SECOND WOE IS PAST BEHOLD THE THIRD WOE COMETH QUICKLY

THE 7 TH TRUMPET IS THE THIRD WOE.

God will send them a strong delusion ....they will believe the lies and lyings wonders of the Beast and The False Prophet [Revelation 13].

 

[DavidPT]

The Nations were [ARE] angry [AGAINST GOD]because of the plagues of the 6 Trumpets and the plagues of the Two witnesses who will have preceded the 7 Th Trumpet.

Revelation 11:14-15
The SECOND WOE IS PAST BEHOLD THE THIRD WOE COMETH QUICKLY

THE 7 TH TRUMPET IS THE THIRD WOE.

God will send them a strong delusion ....they will believe the lies and lyings wonders of the Beast and The False Prophet [Revelation 13].

Good points.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Right back at you then since two can play at this game. Do you think the prophets in the OT got a lot of things wrong then?

In order for your interpretations to be credible, you first have to demonstrate how your interpretations don't contradict anything, such as things OT prophets predicted.

To the Law and the Prophets 101

https://www.blueletterbible.org/search/search.cfm?Criteria=law+prophets&t=NASB#s=s_primary_0_1
"law" AND "prophets" occurs 36 times in 17 verses i

2Kings 17:13
Yet the LORD testified against Israel and against Judah, by all of His prophets, every seer, saying, “Turn from your evil ways, and keep My commandments and My statutes, according to all the law which I commanded your fathers, and which I sent to you by My servants the prophets.”

Zechariah 7:12 [Revelation 22:6]
“Yes, they made their hearts like flint, refusing to hear the law and the words which the LORD of hosts had sent by His Spirit through the former prophets. Thus great wrath came from the LORD of hosts.

Romans 3:21
But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed,
being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets,

Revelation 18:
20 Rejoice over her, thou heaven, and ye holy apostles and prophets; for God hath avenged you on her.

Revelation 22:6
And he said to me, “These words are faithful and true”; and the Lord, the God of the spirits of the prophets, sent His angel to show to His bond-servants the things which must soon take place.

 

[Douggg]

.

Ezekiel 37:21 And say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will take the children of Israel from among the heathen, whither they be gone, and will gather them on every side, and bring them into their own land:

Bab2, it was not the Rothschilds who is the "I will take the children of Israel from among the heathen, whither they be gone, and will gather them on every side, and bring them into their own land:"

 

[Riberra]

Ezekiel 37:21 And say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will take the children of Israel from among the heathen, whither they be gone, and will gather them on every side, and bring them into their own land:

I have read somewhere that the actual gathering in Israel in 1948 ...Represent what is described in Jeremiah 24 ....The bad figs have been gathered in Israel in 1948 for their future destruction ...while that the good figs remain dispersed among the Nations for their good.
Just to give an idea what Jeremiah 24 is about.
http://www.bible-studys.org/Bible Books/Jeremiah/Jeremiah Chapter 24.html


In other words the 1948 gathering is not the final gathering mentioned in Ezekiel 37:21 who will happen AT THE COMING OF JESUS.

 

[keras]

Ezekiel 37:21 And say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will take the children of Israel from among the heathen, whither they be gone, and will gather them on every side, and bring them into their own land:

This will happen AFTER the rejoining of Judah and Israel, as the rest of Ezekiel 37:22-27 makes clear, hasn't happened yet.
When it will happen, is soon after the Sixth Seal disaster has cleared and cleansed the holy Land. As Ezekiel 34:11-16 says: after a Day of cloud and darkness, I will gather My sheep.….

 

[Douggg]

Though you didn't ask me this as well, still I would like to somewhat address this. The 42 months reign of the beast does precede the 2nd coming. But as to the 7th trump though, that happens at the end of it's reign. Look at Revelation 11:19

Revelation 11:19 And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.

Where would you fit this part----and an earthquake, and great hail---within the timeline laid out in Revelation 13? This in verse 19 is meaning once the 7th trumpet has already sounded. When I look at Revelation 13, I see nothing hinting at any earthquake, and great hail, occurring within the 42 month reign of the beast. Yet Revelation 11:19 has to fit somewhere. I conclude it fits at the end of the reign of the beast.

The lightnings, voices, thunderings, earthquake, great hail would appear to be part of when Satan is cast down to earth, shortly after the day 1263.5 in the 7 years.

Revelation 13, part of it, the mortal wounding of the person and his recovery sometime before the exact midpoint, because the image of him made, is the AoD and is placed in the temple 1335 days before Jesus returns.

The 42 months in Revelation 13:5 is after the beast has killed the two witnesses and they have ascended on day 1263.5. With the two witnesses gone, the beast subsequently rules for 42 months unimpeded by their activity. The 42 months actually represents 1256.6 days (day 2520 - days 1263.5).

 

[Riberra]

This will happen AFTER the rejoining of Judah and Israel, as the rest of Ezekiel 37:22-27 makes clear, hasn't happened yet.
When it will happen, is soon after the Sixth Seal disaster has cleared and cleansed the holy Land. As Ezekiel 34:11-16 says: after a Day of cloud and darkness, I will gather My sheep.….

The day of clouds and darkness refers to the Coming Of Jesus for the Battle of Armageddon...

Joel 2:2

Zephaniah 1:15


not the 6Th Seal.

 

[keras]

I have read somewhere that the actual gathering in Israel in 1948 ...Represent what is described in Jeremiah 24 ....The bad figs have been gathered in Israel in 1948 for their future destruction ...while that the good figs remain dispersed among the Nations for their good.
Just to give an idea what Jeremiah 24 is about.
http://www.bible-studys.org/Bible Books/Jeremiah/Jeremiah Chapter 24.html


In other words the 1948 gathering is not the final gathering mentioned in Ezekiel 37:21 who will happen AT THE COMING OF JESUS.

I did give you an 'agree', but I don't agree with your last statement.
The gathering of all the Lord's faithful Christians into all of the holy Land, will occur before Jesus Returns. They are seen there in Daniel 7:25 and Revelation 13:7; God's holy people.
They are the vast multitude in Jerusalem, seen by John soon after he saw the Sixth Seal, Revelation 7:9-14 The 144,000 are selected out of them.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

I have read somewhere that the actual gathering in Israel in 1948 ...Represent what is described in Jeremiah 24 ....The bad figs have been gathered in Israel in 1948 for their future destruction ...while that the good figs remain dispersed among the Nations for their good.

I believe the destruction will occur as it did in 70ad, on the feast of the Passover.
Notice Ezekiel 22 prophecy against them......which I believe was fulfilled in 70ad.....

Ezekiel 22:
17 Then the word of Yahweh came to me: 18 “Son of man! the people of Israel have become dross to me; all of them are the copper, tin, iron and lead left inside a furnace. They are but the dross of silver.
19 Therefore this is what the Sovereign Lord says: ‘Because you have all become dross, I will gather you into Jerusalem.

20 As silver, copper, iron, lead and tin are gathered into a furnace to be melted with a fiery blast, so will I gather you in my anger and my wrath and put you inside the city and melt you.
21 I will gather you and I will blow on you with my fiery wrath, and you will be melted inside Her.
22 As silver is melted in a furnace, so you will be melted inside Her, and you will know that I the Lord have poured out my wrath on you.’ ”

http://www.bible.ca/pre-destruction70AD-george-holford-1805AD.htm

The day on which Titus encompassed Jerusalem, was the feast of the Passover ; and it is deserving of the very particular attention of the reader, that this was the anniversary of that memorable period in which the Jews crucified their Messiah !

At this season multitudes came up from all the surrounding country, and from distant parts, to keep the festival.
How suitable and how kind, then, was the prophetic admonition of our LORD, and how clearly he into futurity when he said "Let not them that are in the countries enter into Jerusalem." Luke xxi. 21.

Nevertheless, the city was at this time crowded with Jewish strangers, and foreigners from all parts, so that the whole nation may be considered as having been shut up in one prison, preparatory to the execution of the Divine vengeance ; and, according to Josephus this event took place suddenly

Revelation 16:8
And the fourth one pours out the bowl of him on the Sun and it was given to him to scorch mankind in fire.
9 And are scorched the men with great heat
and they blaspheme the name of the GOD, the One having the authority on the stripes/blows, these, and not they repent to give to Him glory.

 

[keras]

The day of clouds and darkness refers to the Coming Of Jesus for the Battle of Armageddon... not the 6Th Seal.

Oh really?
I suggest you read Ezekiel 34:11-31 and retract that idea.

 

[Riberra]

I did give you an 'agree', but I don't agree with your last statement.
The gathering of all the Lord's faithful Christians into all of the holy Land, will occur before Jesus Returns. They are seen there in Daniel 7:25 and Revelation 13:7; God's holy people.
They are the vast multitude in Jerusalem, seen by John soon after he saw the Sixth Seal, Revelation 7:9-14 The 144,000 are selected out of them.

The day of clouds and darkness refers to the Coming of Jesus at the Battle of Armageddon NOT THE 6TH SEAL

Joel 2:2

Zephaniah 1:15

Amos 5:18-24
18 Woe unto you that desire the day of Jehovah! Wherefore would ye have the day of Jehovah? It is darkness, and not light.

19 As if a man did flee from a lion, and a bear met him; or went into the house and leaned his hand on the wall, and a serpent bit him.

20 Shall not the day of Jehovah be darkness, and not light? even very dark, and no brightness in it?

 

[Douggg]

In other words the 1948 gathering is not the final gathering mentioned in Ezekiel 37:21 who will happen AT THE COMING OF JESUS.

The 1948 rebirth of Israel as a nation again in a single day is in Isaiah 66:7-9. It is in preparation before the second coming of Jesus.

 

[keras]

I believe the destruction will occur as it did in 70ad, on the feast of the Passover.
Notice Ezekiel 22 prophecy against them......which I believe was fulfilled in 70ad.....

There are quite a few prophesies that describe the forthcoming 'third swing of the Sword' against Judah. Ezekiel 21:14, Isaiah 22:1-14, Amos 2:4-5, +
Plain reading of Ezekiel 22:17-31 show this prophecy remains unfulfilled. Verse 31 clearly refers to the Day of the Lord's blazing anger; His Day of wrath by fire from the sun.
It will happen on an Appointed Day, maybe Passover.

 

[Riberra]

The rebirth of Israel as a nation again is Isaiah 66:7-9. It is in preparation before the second coming of Jesus.

The Hexagram on the Israel flag is a symbol of Moloch a Babylonian God...The Actual Israel founded in 1948 [JUDAISM is founded on the BABYLONIAN TALMUD] represent the Great harlot Babylon of the End Time described in Revelation 17 Revelation 18.

So yes, the actual Israel founded in 1948 is really a preparation of the future fulfillment of Revelation 17 and Revelation 18.

 

[BABerean2]

Ezekiel 37:21 And say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will take the children of Israel from among the heathen, whither they be gone, and will gather them on every side, and bring them into their own land:

Bab2, it was not the Rothschilds who is the "I will take the children of Israel from among the heathen, whither they be gone, and will gather them on every side, and bring them into their own land:"

It was the Rothschild family that established the modern State of Israel, through the Balfour Declaration. That is a historical fact.



Go ahead and ignore the descendant of David being their "King" "forever" in the Book of Ezekiel.
Do you think the Israelis are going to find one of King David's bones and clone him?

And ignore the "everlasting" covenant.

Then ignore them being in that land "forever".
How long do you think "forever" lasts?

And then ignore the verses below and then maybe you will make the modern Two Peoples of God doctrine work.


Gal 4:25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.
Gal 4:26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.


Heb 11:15 And truly, if they had been mindful of that country from whence they came out, they might have had opportunity to have returned.
Heb 11:16 But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.

.

 

[keras]

The 1948 rebirth of Israel as a nation again in a single day is in Isaiah 66:7-9. It is in preparation before the second coming of Jesus.

More guesswork and surmise! This false teaching has gone the rounds, without anyone really studying the context.
Just read Isaiah 66:7-14 and realize that it cannot apply to the current State of Israel, which took 50 years from start to fruition.