Seemingly Anti-OSAS Scriptures

[JLB777]

I said:
"No one loses salvation by being disobedient"

I'll tell you what pure heresy is. Claiming that salvation can be lost.

You've yet to give ANY verse that tells us that salvation can be lost.


Yes, claiming that salvation can be lost IS the LIE of the devil.


You mean, of course, Jesus Christ, who said those He gives eternal life shall never perish in John 10:28, right? So yes, that's the source of the doctrine of eternal security.


Directly applies to those who claim that salvation can be lost, IN SPITE of what Jesus said so clearly in John 10:28 and no one can refute.


Said the guy who doesn't even understand what "not inherit the kingdom" means.


I've asked you many times, and you've so far avoided answering this question, but, just for the benefit of those who read this thread, please tell me where the Bible says that Jesus Christ didn't die for any of the sins listed in Gal 5.

Reality is that Jesus Christ died once for all sins. Hebrews 9-10.

Another post with only the opinion of man.

This is the classic OSAS post.

No scripture.

• If you love Me, keep My commandments. John 14:15

He who has My commandments and keeps them, it is he who loves Me. And he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and manifest Myself to him.” John 14:21

• He who has My commandments and keeps them, it is he who loves Me.

Jesus answered and said to him, “If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our home with him. John 14:23

• If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word;

He who does not love Me does not keep My words; and the word which you hear is not Mine but the Father’s who sent Me.
John 14:23

• He who does not love Me does not keep My words

He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 5 But whoever keeps His word, truly the love of God is perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him. 1 John 2:4-5



If we steal from our brother, is that love or hate?

If we covet our brothers things, is that love or hate?

If we commit adultery with our brother wife, is that love or hate?


20 If someone says, “I love God,” and hates his brother, he is a liar; for he who does not love his brother whom he has seen, how can he love God whom he has not seen? 1 John 4:20


Still waiting for your answer.

Do you love God?



JLB

 

[JLB777]

His sheep have eternal life and can never perish. I am one of His. I can never perish.

John 10:28...anyone who thinks that they may perish, should make a absolute argument on how they are not one of His sheep at this time. Because His sheep NEVER perish.

Why do you feel the need to not quote the whole sentence Jesus stated.

Stating your opinion then tagging your opinion with a scripture reference is a ploy of deception.

What does John 10:28 say?

We know it begins with the word “and”.

John 10:28 is the result of obeying verse 27.

Why do you hide from the truth?

Because your doctrine is of the darkness.

You hide the truth in the mire of your self deceiving words hoping to ensnare a gullible person into your tangled deception.

Your day is coming soon.

Here is the truth of God’s word.

Clearly we see verse 28 begins with the word “and”, in which is connects verse 27 as the condition for receiving verse 28.

Yours is the classic ploy of deception by omitting the truth, taking verse 28 out of its proper context and presenting it as a stand alone unconditional verse.


27 My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. 28 And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. John 10:27-28


Hearing His voice and following Him is His requirement. Those who do not hear with the intent of obeying, will not follow Him. Those who do not follow Him, become lost.


Sheep who follow for a while then wander away, are those who become lost.


4 “What man of you, having a hundred sheep, if he loses one of them, does not leave the ninety-nine in the wilderness, and go after the one which is lost until he finds it? 5 And when he has found it, he lays it on his shoulders, rejoicing. 6 And when he comes home, he calls together his friends and neighbors, saying to them, ‘Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost!’ 7 I say to you that likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance. Luke 15:4-7

• Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost!’

• there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents

• than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance.

Sheep you wander away and become lost, are no longer "just", but have returned to being sinners in need of repentance.



No wonder you hide the truth, and take scriptures out of context, because the truth of God's word exposes your false doctrine.

• Sheep who are with the Shepherd are found, just: reconciled to God

• Sheep who become lost are separated from God, lost, un-reconciled; a sinner in need of repentance; unjust

The bible plainly says Jesus is separated from sinners.



For such a High Priest was fitting for us,who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and has become higher than the heavens; Hebrews 7:26




JLB

 

[Gr8Grace]

Why do you feel the need to not quote the whole sentence Jesus stated.

Oh, I don't know.....because it is the part that absolutely no one on the loss of salvation side will deal with. John 10:27 sure is truth. John 10:26 sure is truth...But John 10:28 that just can't be truth.

Stating your opinion then tagging your opinion with a scripture reference is a ploy of deception.

Very silly statement indeed. Seriously?

John 10:28 is the result of obeying verse 27.

Why do you hide from the truth?

Obey verse 27 and we have eternal life and will NEVER perish.....Why do you hide from this truth?


I obey vs 27. So vs 28 applies to me right now. I have eternal life and will NEVER perish.

If one thinks that they might not have eternal life. And might perish. better take a long hard look at vs 27 and obey it. Because vs 28 says His sheep are given eternal life and will NEVER perish.

John 10~~9“I am the door; if anyone enters through Me, he will be saved, and will go in and out and find pasture.

 

[WordSword]

Consistent obedience to God does not produce favor with God but shows you already have His favor--in redemption! Redemption and favor from God comes only by the Lord Jesus and it's consistent obedience that manifests God is "working" this "in you," which brings not favor from Him but "pleasure" to Him (Phil 2:13). If the Father ceased this "work" in us (which would mean no more "new nature" and which could never be once redeemed) we could not maintain obedience to Him.

You didn't save yourself, therefore you cannot retain redemption yourself because it must be kept for you by the One who imparted it to you:

"God is able to make him stand." (Rom 14:4)
"Now to Him that is of power to establish you." (Rom 16:25)
"And the Lord shall deliver me from every evil work, and will preserve me unto His heavenly kingdom." (2 Tim 4:18)
"Now unto Him that is able to keep you from falling." (Jude 1:24)

God be blessed!

 

[JLB777]

Oh, I don't know.....because it is the part that absolutely no one on the loss of salvation side will deal with. John 10:27 sure is truth. John 10:26 sure is truth...But John 10:28 that just can't be truth.

27 My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. 28 And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. John 10:27-28

I just dealt with it.



You on the other hand won't deal with it, nor will you quote it because it shines the light of truth on your darkness.

You are still just stating your opinion and "tagging" your opinion with a scripture reference.


27 My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. 28 And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. John 10:27-28

• Sheep that are not snatched out of His hand are those who hear His Voice, and follow Him.

• Sheep who do not hear and obey His voice, are those of His sheep who become lost.

• Sheep who follow for a while then wander away, are those who become lost.

4 “What man of you, having a hundred sheep, if he loses one of them, does not leave the ninety-nine in the wilderness, and go after the one which is lost until he finds it? 5 And when he has found it, he lays it on his shoulders, rejoicing. 6 And when he comes home, he calls together his friends and neighbors, saying to them, ‘Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost!’ 7 I say to you that likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance. Luke 15:4-7

• Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost!’

• there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents

• than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance.

Sheep you wander away and become lost, are no longer "just", but have returned to being sinners in need of repentance.



No wonder you hide the truth, and take scriptures out of context, because the truth of God's word exposes your false doctrine.

• Sheep who are with the Shepherd are found, just: reconciled to God

• Sheep who become lost are separated from God, lost, un-reconciled; a sinner in need of repentance; unjust

The bible plainly says Jesus is separated from sinners.



For such a High Priest was fitting for us,who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and has become higher than the heavens; Hebrews 7:26



JPT

 

[FreeGrace2]

Another post with only the opinion of man.

This is the classic OSAS post.

No scripture.

This is a classic Arminian post; lies.

Here is from the post you're responding to:
"Directly applies to those who claim that salvation can be lost, IN SPITE of what Jesus said so clearly in John 10:28 and no one can refute."

and
"Reality is that Jesus Christ died once for all sins. Hebrews 9-10."

If you love Me, keep My commandments. John 14:15

He who has My commandments and keeps them, it is he who loves Me. And he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and manifest Myself to him.” John 14:21

He who has My commandments and keeps them, it is he who loves Me.

Jesus answered and said to him, “If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our home with him. John 14:23

If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word;

He who does not love Me does not keep My words; and the word which you hear is not Mine but the Father’s who sent Me.
John 14:23

He who does not love Me does not keep My words

He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 5 But whoever keeps His word, truly the love of God is perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him. 1 John 2:4-5

Yes, Jesus certainly did point out that only those who are obedient show love for Him.

What is your point here? How does it support your unbiblical claim that salvation can be lost, since none of these verses even speak about how to be saved or how to avoid losing salvation?

If we steal from our brother, is that love or hate?

If we covet our brothers things, is that love or hate?

If we commit adultery with our brother wife, is that love or hate?

I already answered; twice.

So, now a 3rd time, which is about 3 times MORE than you ever answer any of my questions to you.

hate
hate
hate

But, as always, you make no point.

20 If someone says, “I love God,” and hates his brother, he is a liar; for he who does not love his brother whom he has seen, how can he love God whom he has not seen? 1 John 4:20


Still waiting for your answer.

You've gotten it 3 times now.

Do you love God?

Yes.

I don't ignore your questions. Why do you ignore mine?

 

[FreeGrace2]

Why do you feel the need to not quote the whole sentence Jesus stated.

Stating your opinion then tagging your opinion with a scripture reference is a ploy of deception.

What does John 10:28 say?

We know it begins with the word “and”.

John 10:28 is the result of obeying verse 27.

Those who passed English class in high school know what a result clause looks like.

And there is no "result" clause in v.27.

The only result we see in v.28 is the RESULT of being given eternal life. Recipients shall never perish.

Why don't you understand that the RESULT of being given eternal life is to never perish, which is eternal security.

Those who mock eternal security, like yourself, do NOT believe what Jesus said in v.28. They believe that some who have been given eternal life WILL PERISH.

In direct contradiction of what Jesus said.

Those who DON'T believe v.28 show that they don't love Jesus Christ.

Why don't you love Jesus Christ, who died for all your sins?

Why do you hide from the truth?

That's what you've done.

Here is the truth of God’s word.

Clearly we see verse 28 begins with the word “and”, in which is connects verse 27 as the condition for receiving verse 28.

Where in the English language does "and" equal a condition? Those who passed high school English know better.

Yours is the classic ploy of deception by omitting the truth, taking verse 28 out of its proper context and presenting it as a stand alone unconditional verse.

I've shown the CAUSE and EFFECT that Jesus taught about having eternal life many times. You've ignored all of those posts.

Why? Because you know you can't refute it.

27 My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. 28 And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. John 10:27-28

Here's the CAUSE and EFFECT of having eternal life from v.28:

I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand.

Now, please prove that the red words in v.28 do NOT teach the cause of having eternal life.

And, please prove that the blue words in v.28 do NOT teach the effect of having eternal life.

But we all know that you can't do that.

Hearing His voice and following Him is His requirement.

Those who passed high school English know there is NO requirement stated in v.27 or v.28. Your claim is invalid.

Those who do not hear with the intent of obeying, will not follow Him. Those who do not follow Him, become lost.

What verse says that those who do not follow Him become lost? I already know your opinion, but why haven't you EVER provided ANY verse that says what you claim?

So typical of Arminians; cannot provide ANY verses that support their claim that salvation can be lost.

All they've got is assumption and presumption.

That's NOT how to determine biblical doctrine.

That's how to formulate FALSE doctrine.

Sheep who follow for a while then wander away, are those who become lost.

So prove that Jesus was talking about losing salvation.

4 “What man of you, having a hundred sheep, if he loses one of them, does not leave the ninety-nine in the wilderness, and go after the one which is lost until he finds it? 5 And when he has found it, he lays it on his shoulders, rejoicing. 6 And when he comes home, he calls together his friends and neighbors, saying to them, ‘Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost!’ 7 I say to you that likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance. Luke 15:4-7

Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost!’
there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents
than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance.

Sheep you wander away and become lost, are no longer "just", but have returned to being sinners in need of repentance.

OK, now prove this is about losing salvation.

And remember why Jesus spoke in parables in the first place:
This is why I speak to them in parables: “Though seeing, they do not see; though hearing, they do not hear or understand. Matt 13:13

Those who build their doctrines on parables are on very shaky ground!

 

[FreeGrace2]

27 My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. 28 And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. John 10:27-28

I just dealt with it.

lol. You've NEVER dealt with the plain fact of v28; that recipients of eternal life shall never perish. All you do is repeatedly ignore it.

The single BASIS for never perishing is to be given eternal life by Jesus.

Does Jesus give eternal life to those who believe in Him? Yes.

Does Jesus say recipients must do something to never perish? No.

Can recipients of eternal life ever perish? No. But you believe they can.

Your misguided theology is in direct denial and rejection of what Jesus taught.

 

[JLB777]

This is a classic Arminian post; lies.

Here is from the post you're responding to:
"Directly applies to those who claim that salvation can be lost, IN SPITE of what Jesus said so clearly in John 10:28 and no one can refute."

and
"Reality is that Jesus Christ died once for all sins. Hebrews 9-10."


Yes, Jesus certainly did point out that only those who are obedient show love for Him.

What is your point here? How does it support your unbiblical claim that salvation can be lost, since none of these verses even speak about how to be saved or how to avoid losing salvation?


I already answered; twice.

So, now a 3rd time, which is about 3 times MORE than you ever answer any of my questions to you.

hate
hate
hate

But, as always, you make no point.


You've gotten it 3 times now.


Yes.

I don't ignore your questions. Why do you ignore mine?

No scripture again.


If you agree that it is hate to violate His commandments then you have to agree that those you claim to have eternal life
Which means s to say “ I know Him” yet do not keep His commandments are liars.


Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments. 4 He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 1 John 2:3-4

• He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar,

That’s the end of OSAS, eternal security and Calvinism.


15Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him.
1 John 3:15


Born again, Spirit Baptised Christian’s are required to walk in love by keeping His commandments which is how we abide in Him.


Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.
1 John 3:24


The way we remain, abide in Christ is by walking in love, which is keeping His commandments.


Those who do not abide or remain in Christ do not remain to have eternal life.



JLB

 

[Dan the deacon]

So I have to ask: How do you know you are already saved. Can you find scripture saying you ARE saved? Or does scripture say," will be saved?" Why do so many prematurely claim salvation before being judged? Could it be from false teaching of a man?
I say, I am being saved, not that I am already perfect. Saying you are already perfect (saved) is new age belief. Not Christianity.

 

[JLB777]

So I have to ask: How do you know you are already saved. Can you find scripture saying you ARE saved? Or does scripture say," will be saved?" Why do so many prematurely claim salvation before being judged? Could it be from false teaching of a man?
I say, I am being saved, not that I am already perfect. Saying you are already perfect (saved) is new age belief. Not Christianity.

Yes sir.

For now in this life we are saved by faith, which means we have the hope of receiving the salvation of our soul as an end result of a life of faith.

receiving the end of your faith—the salvation of your souls. 1 Peter 1:9


This will come on the Day of Judgement when we stand before Him, to be judged according to our deeds.

No one gets to by pass this Day.

• eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality;

God who “will render to each one according to his deeds”: 7 eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; 8 but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath, Romans 2:6-8

• but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath

JLB

 

[Dan the deacon]

Yes sir.

For now in this life we are saved by faith, which means we have the hope of receiving the salvation of our soul as an end result of a life of faith.

receiving the end of your faith—the salvation of your souls. 1 Peter 1:9


This will come on the Day of Judgement when we stand before Him, to be judged according to our deeds.

No one gets to by pass this Day.

• eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality;

God who “will render to each one according to his deeds”: 7 eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; 8 but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath, Romans 2:6-8

• but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath

JLB

I think so many make this claim do to poor teaching by protestant preachers and teachers. The Eastern Orthodox Church has been in place since the days of the Apostles. We have never taught that a believer is saved here on earth but rather being saved through the teaching and guidance of the Holy Ghost and the Church. I do not believe you can lose your salvation here on earth because you don't yet possess it but are being prepared for it. Salvation comes at the judgement seat of Christ, not here on earth. We are not yet married to Christ. That, my friend, is our salvation, our reward.

 

[Gr8Grace]

That’s the end of OSAS, eternal security and Calvinism.

JLB. We have been debating for close to 6 YEARS now. 4 years or better for Freegrace that I have seen..............You don't know that both of us don't argue from the false theology of calvinism yet?

This is why it's pointless to debate with you. Your arguing against calvinism.

We are stating the case for Christianity and bible doctrine.

I probably know your theology better than my own, just by reading, understanding and debating where you are coming from.......Yet you don't understand a SINGLE thing that comes from our theology! After 6 YEARS!

You don't want the truth. You are here to defy it. Plain and simple.

And I have told you this before(countless times), I was stuck in calvinism for a period........so I have a beef against calvinism/reformed theology and have to keep it in check.

 

[Dan the deacon]

JLB. We have been debating for close to 6 YEARS now. 4 years or better for Freegrace that I have seen..............You don't know that both of us don't argue from the false theology of calvinism yet?

This is why it's pointless to debate with you. Your arguing against calvinism.

We are stating the case for Christianity and bible doctrine.

I probably know your theology better than my own, just by reading, understanding and debating where you are coming from.......Yet you don't understand a SINGLE thing that comes from our theology! After 6 YEARS!

You don't want the truth. You are here to defy it. Plain and simple.

And I have told you this before(countless times), I was stuck in calvinism for a period........so I have a beef against calvinism/reformed theology and have to keep it in check.

Hopefully you are not now clinging to Armenian belief either. It is equally false.

 

[JLB777]

I do not believe you can lose your salvation here on earth because you don't yet possess it but are being prepared for it.

Amen.

 

[JLB777]

Salvation comes at the judgement seat of Christ, not here on earth. We are not yet married to Christ. That, my friend, is our salvation, our reward.

He is our exceedingly great reward!



JLB

 

[JLB777]

We are stating the case for Christianity and bible doctrine.

Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son. 2 John 9

We are called to remain in the doctrine of Christ by which we remain in Him.

Those who do not continue in the doctrine of Christ are severed, removed from Him and no longer have God.


That’s the end of eternal security; the end of OSAS.



JLB

 

[FreeGrace2]

No scripture again.

Once again another dishonest post.

This is what your untrue (lie) comment was in response to:
"Here is from the post you're responding to:
"Directly applies to those who claim that salvation can be lost, IN SPITE of what Jesus said so clearly in John 10:28 and no one can refute."

and
"Reality is that Jesus Christ died once for all sins. Hebrews 9-10."

By my count, 2 Scriptures were cited. Either your counting skills need work, or being dishonest is just easier.

If you agree that it is hate to violate His commandments then you have to agree that those you claim to have eternal life
Which means s to say “ I know Him” yet do not keep His commandments are liars.

Since you believe that people who have been given eternal life CAN later perish because of lifestyle, then you yourself don't believe what Jesus said about recipients of eternal life.

So I conclude that you yourself don't know Him. How can you know One with whom you totally disagree?

Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments. 4 He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 1 John 2:3-4

But you don't know Him because you don't believe Him.

He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar,

Those who claim to know Him but don't believe what He says are also liars.

That’s the end of OSAS, eternal security and Calvinism.

I have no reason to defend Calvinism, as that theology has as many errors as the Arminians. But John 10:28 is the most clear statement about eternal security in the Bible.

So there is no end of OSAS. Such talk is merely a delusion.

Born again, Spirit Baptised Christian’s are required to walk in love by keeping His commandments which is how we abide in Him.

Correct, but not for what you think. In order to abide in Him, we must keep His commandments. To do otherwise, we are out of fellowship and Not abiding in Him.

But Arminians demonstrate their ignorance of the issue of being in or out of fellowship. So further discussion with Arminians regarding this issue is worthless, as you've demonstrated over and over.

Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.
1 John 3:24[/QUOTE]
From my many years on Christian forums and dealing with Arminians, I am convinced that the teaching on fellowship isn't taught among them. It's really sad to see such cluelessness regarding such an important issue.

The way we remain, abide in Christ is by walking in love, which is keeping His commandments.

Correct, but again, not for the reasons you may assume.

hose who do not abide or remain in Christ do not remain to have eternal life.
JLB

Absolutely untrue.

But again, you don't believe what Jesus said about recipients of eternal life; that they SHALL NEVER PERISH.

Your twisted opinion is that they CAN perish. Shame on you. You don't even know Him with that notion.

 

[Dan the deacon]

Once again another dishonest post.

This is what your untrue (lie) comment was in response to:
"Here is from the post you're responding to:
"Directly applies to those who claim that salvation can be lost, IN SPITE of what Jesus said so clearly in John 10:28 and no one can refute."

and
"Reality is that Jesus Christ died once for all sins. Hebrews 9-10."

By my count, 2 Scriptures were cited. Either your counting skills need work, or being dishonest is just easier.


Since you believe that people who have been given eternal life CAN later perish because of lifestyle, then you yourself don't believe what Jesus said about recipients of eternal life.

So I conclude that you yourself don't know Him. How can you know One with whom you totally disagree?


But you don't know Him because you don't believe Him.


Those who claim to know Him but don't believe what He says are also liars.


I have no reason to defend Calvinism, as that theology has as many errors as the Arminians. But John 10:28 is the most clear statement about eternal security in the Bible.

So there is no end of OSAS. Such talk is merely a delusion.


Correct, but not for what you think. In order to abide in Him, we must keep His commandments. To do otherwise, we are out of fellowship and Not abiding in Him.

But Arminians demonstrate their ignorance of the issue of being in or out of fellowship. So further discussion with Arminians regarding this issue is worthless, as you've demonstrated over and over.

Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.
1 John 3:24

From my many years on Christian forums and dealing with Arminians, I am convinced that the teaching on fellowship isn't taught among them. It's really sad to see such cluelessness regarding such an important issue.


Correct, but again, not for the reasons you may assume.


Absolutely untrue.

But again, you don't believe what Jesus said about recipients of eternal life; that they SHALL NEVER PERISH.

Your twisted opinion is that they CAN perish. Shame on you. You don't even know Him with that notion.[/QUOTE]
As one is given eternal life at God's judgement I am wondering how you got it before being judged. Being born again happens here on earth but that is not yet salvation. It is, however, the road to such.

 

[FreeGrace2]

So I have to ask: How do you know you are already saved. Can you find scripture saying you ARE saved?

Consider these verses:

Acts 15:11 - No! We believe it is through the grace of our Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are.”

Rom 10:10 - For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved.

Do you believe that salvation and eternal life are synonymous? I can show that those who believe in Christ as Savior HAVE eternal life.

So, how would one argue that a person can POSSESS eternal life yet still be unsaved?

I don't see how. John 3:36, 5:24, 6:47 and 1 John 5:13 ALL say that possession of eternal life is based on faith in Christ.

Or does scripture say," will be saved?"

It says both. But when the future tense is used, it refers to being saved as a result of believing in Christ. iow, salvation comes after believing, not before.

Why do so many prematurely claim salvation before being judged? Could it be from false teaching of a man?

No, it's that you misunderstand the Judgment Seat of Christ that Paul mentioned in 2 Cor 5:10 - "For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each of us may receive what is due us for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad."

This judgment is not to determine where the believer will spend eternity. That was absolutely decided when one believes in Christ.

This is what Jesus said about those who believe in Him, in John 10:28 - "I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand."

In this verse, Jesus taught the CAUSE and EFFECT of having eternal life.

The red words speak to the cause of possession of eternal life; Jesus Christ Himself.

The blue words speak to the effect of possession of eternal life; they shall never perish.

So, what is the purpose of the Judgment Seat of Christ? To determine whether rewards will be earned, which is based on one's lifestyle.

The Arminian problem is viewing lifestyle as the determinant of whether one ends up in heaven or hell. But they fail to understand that such a view reduces salvation to one of works.

I say, I am being saved, not that I am already perfect. Saying you are already perfect (saved) is new age belief. Not Christianity.

I believe you misunderstand the 3 tenses of "salvation".

Remember what the word really means; to rescue, to deliver, to protect from. When used in reference to faith in Christ, it means an eternal rescue from hell, or to deliver from hell, and to protect from hell.

John 3:18 - Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.
This is seen in John 3:36 - Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God’s wrath remains on them.

However, Paul used "salvation" in a present tense 'being saved' in Phil 2:12 - Therefore, my dear friends, as you have always obeyed—not only in my presence, but now much more in my absence—continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling,

So, salvation can be thought of as in the past, present and future tense.

Past tense: we have been saved from the penalty of sin. This is justification.
Present tense: we are being saved from the power of sin. This is sanctification.
Future tense: we will be saved from the presence of sin. This is glorification.

So when you say "I am being saved", that doesn't refer to how to get to heaven. If you have placed your trust in Jesus Christ as your Savior who died for your sins and gives you eternal life, you ARE saved. Period.

It does refer to the sanctification process, whereby the believer is growing in grace and in the knowledge of the Lord Jesus Christ as long as they are in fellowship with Christ and not out of fellowship.