Genesis One

[Bugeyedcreepy]

You certainly work hard to get it.

Not near as hard as you work to thwart serious inquiry...

"Eventually" being the key word?

Ask a question ... get it answered ... that opens up a wall of questions to follow ... get those answered ... then the answerer eventually gets accused of saying the exact opposite.

Rinse ... repeat in another thread with the same tactics.

Well, if your answers weren't contradictory, then there wouldn't be more questions, wouldn't you agree? That you can't be coherent isn't the fault of rational thinkers.

I'm sure you don't.

Just itching to trample those pearls, aren't you?

I'll go back again and address that wall of garbage text, multiple dumb questions, and lies you made ... just so you can QED what I'm saying.

Awesome! Ta for that...

 

[AV1611VET]

Well, here we go yet again:

Sure, I also mean like a religion that would have you believe in the trickster God that created the world young making it look incredibly and perfectly old,

God did not create the world young ... He embedded age into it ... giving it maturity without history.

Kind of like making a dress tomorrow that is so old, it falls apart with age.

Then this "trickster God," as you call Him, "tricked" us by documenting what He did, how He did it, where He did it, when He did it, what order He did it in, how long it took Him to do it, why it took Him that long, and who the eyewitnesses were.

... complete with a history it never had,

What you are espousing is called Last Thursdayism (i.e., maturity with fake history).

Embedded Age is maturity without history.

I also mean like a religion that would have you worship a deity ...

Christianity is NOT A RELIGION. It is an espousal relationship with Jesus Christ.

... on no evidence ...

There is plenty ... plenty ... of cause-and-effect evidence for the existence of God: Christian artifices, holidays, martyrs, literature, songs, hymns, bumper stickers, debates, testimonies, slogans, carols, and various and sundry knick-knacks.

When John the Baptist was in prison and had a lapse of faith, Jesus validated His credentials to him by showing his disciples those who had been healed, resurrected, and whatnot.

The term is: cause-and-effect.

... and punish you for an eternity if you can't make yourself believe in it anyway as if belief was a choice,

You have been given a choice -- it's called "freewill."

And you can make it sound like it's hard to do, but the Bible says doing the opposite ... which is what you academians are doing ... is what is hard.

Acts 9:5 And he said, Who art thou, Lord? And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks.

Academia just tries to make your burden lighter.

I'm gonna stop here.

I'm sure you'll show up in another thread later to bleed out your disbelief, blasphemy, and ridicule on to us and try and act incredulous that we don't follow suit.

 

[AV1611VET]

Not near as hard as you work to thwart serious inquiry...

Was that a threat?

Because if it was, I'll report you.

 

[Bugeyedcreepy]

God did not create the world young ... He embedded age into it ... giving it maturity without history.

Kind of like making a dress tomorrow that is so old, it falls apart with age.

Then this "trickster God," as you call Him, "tricked" us by documenting what He did, how He did it, where He did it, when He did it, what order He did it in, how long it took Him to do it, why it took Him that long, and who the eyewitnesses were.

Well, this is the rub we keep getting to - That "maturity without history" is not accurate, it is demonstrably false! We can see it has history! We can see layers put down over time where forests have grown, bushfires have occurred, desert has come and gone, footprints are laid down, oceans have inundated and dried up, more forests with different vegetation and wildlife, more desert, more oceans, etc, etc. Each and every layer comes and goes with a notable time quotient you insist it never had. Why would your God make all this history if as you say it never happened? Why would the earth he created need so much artificial age anyway, even if all this history wasn't so obvious?

What you are espousing is called Last Thursdayism (i.e., maturity with fake history).

Embedded Age is maturity without history.

Well, as just explained, we find an immense and rich history that you want to claim never happened - so up to you to explain why there's so much of it, and why then write a book that doesn't match what we see in that creation? This is why it seems you believe in a Trickster God, one that would create something that looks and acts completely different to his written description of it. For all intents and purposes, the creation and written description of it are from two very disconnected sources that knew nothing of the other.

Christianity is NOT A RELIGION. It is an espousal relationship with Jesus Christ.

it's a religion.

There is plenty ... plenty ... of cause-and-effect evidence for the existence of God: Christian artifices, holidays, martyrs, literature, songs, hymns, bumper stickers, debates, testimonies, slogans, carols, and various and sundry knick-knacks.

When John the Baptist was in prison and had a lapse of faith, Jesus validated His credentials to him by showing his disciples those who had been healed, resurrected, and whatnot.

The term is: cause-and-effect.

There's no extra-biblical contemporary record of Jesus, let alone verification of anything he did or said. That there's a religion that inspired artifices, holidays, martyrs, literature, songs, hymns, bumper stickers, debates, testimonies, slogans, carols, and various and sundry knick-knacks is not being contested in the least - plenty of other religions have all this too. what is in question is the validity of anything claimed of your religion.

If all these things are evidence for your religion, then the same thing is evidence for all the other religions that have these things too. You can't on one hand hold up all these things as evidence for yours, then deny that the same things for other religions is NOT evidence for theirs.

You have been given a choice -- it's called "freewill."

And you can make it sound like it's hard to do, but the Bible says doing the opposite ... which is what you academians are doing ... is what is hard.

Acts 9:5 And he said, Who art thou, Lord? And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks.

Academia just tries to make your burden lighter.

I'm gonna stop here.

I'm sure you'll show up in another thread later to bleed out your disbelief, blasphemy, and ridicule on to us and try and act incredulous that we don't follow suit.

Oh, I don't hold any of your credulity in yours/incredulity of others as a surprise - like I said before, I see exactly the same thing in Hindus and Muslims that I know personally - so in fact, you're in good company, you all do it.

Academia is far more interested in the truth of something actually being true - this is critical thinking 101. If we didn't have academia, you wouldn't have pretty much any of the technological progress, quality of life and knowledge we have garnered over the past 400 or so years & we'd all likely still be praying to deities of various types in candle-lit houses susceptible to the elements hoping demons don't afflict us with disease & sickness. As for making my burden lighter, it does no such thing. If anything, it impresses upon me that this is the one and only life I know I'll have, and if I and those I care for are to flourish, I have to make sure that we have the best opportunity to do this, I can't just pray to the heavens and hope (but never know) I'll be heard. That means doing the hard yards myself, fostering a society that is all-inclusive, regardless of race, religion or ideology, that such a society will protect the broadest interests of its members and invest back in me and my family/friends.

In my case, I'll never be able to say "I'll pray for you..." - instead, I'll actually be more likely to do something of substance to help instead, because that's what I know will work and I trust that my investment of actual effort and care for others will be repaid by others investing effort and care back to me and my family & friends.

Was that a threat?

Because if it was, I'll report you.

....seriously?? -_- Just because you veil threats and insults at others, doesn't mean others are doing that to you.

 

[AV1611VET]

In my case, I'll never be able to say "I'll pray for you..." - instead, I'll actually be more likely to do something of substance to help instead,

Like showing up later in another thread with your same PRATTs and false accusations?

You call that that "doing something of substance to help"?

 

[Bugeyedcreepy]

Like showing up later in another thread with your same PRATTs and false accusations?

You call that that "doing something of substance to help"?

Yes. thanks for the continued insults - are you going to address my questions?

 

[AV1611VET]

Yes. are you going to address my questions?

Thanks for the QED ... yet again.

 

[Bugeyedcreepy]

Thanks for the QED ... yet again.

Pointless telling you otherwise when you're so set in stone... Now are you going to answer my questions??

 

[TCassidy]

We can see layers put down over time where forests have grown, bushfires have occurred, desert has come and gone, footprints are laid down, oceans have inundated and dried up, more forests with different vegetation and wildlife, more desert, more oceans, etc, etc.

Why do you assume those things do not represent actual events in the life of the earth?

There's no extra-biblical contemporary record of Jesus, let alone verification of anything he did or said.

Uh, have you read Josephus? Pliny? Tacitus? Lucian? Celsus? Suetonius? You may want to study up on the subject a bit more.

 

[Bugeyedcreepy]

Why do you assume those things do not represent actual events in the life of the earth?

I do, it's AV that seems to think they don't represent actual events in earth's history - he seems to think that God created the earth to look old for some reason.

Uh, have you read Josephus? Pliny? Tacitus? Lucian? Celsus? Suetonius? You may want to study up on the subject a bit more.

None of them were contemporaries, and all of them are talking about Christians sharing stories and scripture about Christ. I've studied up on it plenty.

 

[AV1611VET]

I do, it's AV that seems to think they don't represent actual events in earth's history - he seems to think that God created the earth to look old for some reason.

And what reason is that?

I've only posted it about ten times.

Thanks again for QEDing my point that you go from thread to thread acting like you never heard this stuff before.

Here ... I'll quote that reason for about the eleventh time now, just so you can go somewhere else later and act like I never gave one:

From Adam Clarke's Commentary:

It appears that God created every thing, not only perfect as it respects its nature, but also in a state of maturity, so that every vegetable production appeared at once in full growth; and this was necessary that man, when he came into being, might find every thing ready for his use.

See you later in another thread.

 

[Bugeyedcreepy]

And what reason is that?

I've only posted it about ten times.

Thanks again for QEDing my point that you go from thread to thread acting like you never heard this stuff before.

Here ... I'll quote that reason for about the eleventh time now, just so you can go somewhere else later and act like I never gave one:

From Adam Clarke's Commentary:


See you later in another thread.

So, are you deliberately ignoring the point I'm wanting clarified? Like I said, your answers aren't coherent and create more questions...

It's one thing to create mature vegetables ready to eat, but it's another thing entirely to create layers upon layers of earth under foot, hundreds and thousands of feet thick with progressive fossils of plants and animals that look exactly like they've evolved over hundreds of millions of years, replete with evidence of bush fires, floods, famines & droughts throughout, that apparently never happened. Why would God do this, to fool us into thinking the bible wasn't written by him?

 

[AV1611VET]

So, are you deliberately ignoring the point I'm wanting clarified?

It's one thing to create mature vegetables ready to eat, but it's another thing entirely to create layers upon layers of earth under foot, hundreds and thousands of feet thick with progressive fossils of plants and animals that look exactly like they've evolved over hundreds of millions of years, replete with evidence of bush fires, floods, famines & droughts throughout, that apparently never happened?

As I said ... thanks again for the QED.

You may now commence begging me to address your point you just made (for what? the tenth time?), until you give up.

But since I hate to see you beg, I'll be nice and address it yet again.

God did not create the scenario that you posted.

If you think He did, please show me in Genesis 1.

Just like evolution has nothing to do with abiogenesis, what happened after God created the universe has nothing to do with the shape of the universe on Day Seven.

You're welcome.

 

[Bugeyedcreepy]

As I said ... thanks again for the QED.

You may now commence begging me to address your point you just made (for what? the tenth time?), until you give up.

But since I hate to see you beg, I'll be nice and address it yet again.

God did not create the scenario that you posted.

If you think He did, please show me in Genesis 1.

Just like evolution has nothing to do with abiogenesis, what happened after God created the universe has nothing to do with the shape of the universe on Day Seven.

You're welcome.

Well, I guess we reach yet another impasse then - the bible's description of what happened doesn't match what your God's alleged creation tells us. That is, the earth is 4.6 billion years old, in a universe that's 13.8 billion years old, life arose around 3.8 billion years ago with multicelled life from around 600 million years ago, mammals from around 240 million years ago, hominids from around 7 million years ago out of central africa and modern day humans from around 200,000 years ago with civilisations starting from around 12,000 - 15,000 years ago, then modern day societies benefiting from science over the last few hundred centuries to close out the scenario.

You seem to be demanding that the Map is right and it's the Terrain that's wrong. I have no doubt the inanity of such a suggestion will be completely lost on you. Your Bible isn't the literal truth you make it out to be, it was at the very least filtered through fallible men and cannot be the direct word of your God, because that Map you allege he wrote quite clearly doesn't match the terrain he created... sorry to break it to you, AV.

 

[AV1611VET]

Your Bible isn't the literal truth you make it out to be, it was at the very least filtered through fallible men and cannot be the direct word of your God,

And you wonder how I came up with the term Suskind?

 

[Bugeyedcreepy]

And you wonder how I came up with the term Suskind?

irrelevant, even had I wondered - and certainly adds nothing to the conversation when you insult people while representing Christianity.

 

[Bugeyedcreepy]

And you wonder how I came up with the term Suskind?

You're not terribly competent at addressing the questions you raise - is it because you keep painting yourself into a corner?

You know, it is okay to say you don't know or don't have an answer, if that's the issue...

 

[Aman777]

You are deluded if you think any of your blather is on point - after all, the Jews have faith, the Muslims have faith, the Hindus have faith, the Mormons have faith, the Scientologists have faith, the Sumerians had faith, the Zoroastrians had faith, the Sun worshippers had faith, etc. You all have faith and you all claim to be right. Until you can *Demonstrate* your faith to be any different, you have the same value proposition they have - and that's None.

That is why you cannot refute me. I show that when Faith AGREES with Science and History, one has found the ONE Truth, God's Truth. I'm sure you disagree and that makes me know that God and I are correct. God Bless you

 

[Bugeyedcreepy]

That is why you cannot refute me. I show that when Faith AGREES with Science and History, one has found the ONE Truth, God's Truth. I'm sure you disagree and that makes me know that God and I are correct. God Bless you

lol! I guess the Jews, Muslims, Hindus, Mormons, Scientologists, Sumerians, Zoroastrians, and Sun worshippers cannot be refuted either, because they too can show their Faith AGREES with Science and History, so they must have found the ONE Truth, their God's Truth too! Have fun with that!

 

[Aman777]

Well, I guess we reach yet another impasse then - the bible's description of what happened doesn't match what your God's alleged creation tells us. That is, the earth is 4.6 billion years old, (at the end of the 5th Day Gen 1:21) in a universe that's 13.8 billion years old, (at the end of the 3rd Day Gen 2:4) life arose around 3.8 billion years ago (at the end of the 5th Day Gen 1:21) with multicelled life from around 600 million years ago, (Today, the 6th Day Gen 1:27) mammals from around 240 million years ago, (Today, the 6th Day Gen 1:27) hominids from around 7 million years ago out of central africa (Today, the 6th Day Gen 1:27) and modern day humans from around 200,000 years ago (Today, the 6th Day Gen 1:27) with civilisations starting from around 12,000 - 15,000 years ago, (Today, the 6th Day Gen 1:27) then modern day societies benefiting from science over the last few hundred centuries to close out the scenario.

I bolded God's time beside your "man's time". The only problem is that you falsely state that Humans began 200k years ago, in man's time. This is wrong since the Ark brought the first Humans to our planet 11k years ago. Genesis 8:4 and http://www.fsmitha.com/h1/map00-fc.html This totally refutes the False ToE which assumes that Apes magically changed into Humans.