Judas was saved and then lost his salvation

[FreeGrace2]

Judas was not saved.

Agreed.

He hung himself before Jesus made the sacrifice. No one was saved until Christ died for mankind.

This is saying that no one in the OT were saved then. That would include King David, Abraham, Enoch, and the list is enormous.

The reason those in the OT were saved is because they believed God's promise of salvation through faith in what the Messiah would do.

 

[bling]

Agreed.


This is saying that no one in the OT were saved then. That would include King David, Abraham, Enoch, and the list is enormous.

The reason those in the OT were saved is because they believed God's promise of salvation through faith in what the Messiah would do.

OT saved people trusted (faith in) God's Love (charity/mercy/grace) wanted and asked for forgiveness and God heard their prays and forgave them. Their is nothing said about faith in the Messiah, being a requirement for them.

 

[FreeGrace2]

OT saved people trusted (faith in) God's Love (charity/mercy/grace) wanted and asked for forgiveness and God heard their prays and forgave them. Their is nothing said about faith in the Messiah, being a requirement for them.

Paul thought otherwise. He preached Christ from "the Scriptures". That was the OT. Everyone is saved by the same way; faith in Christ.

How was Abraham justified? Faith in Christ. Gen 15:6 Romans 4

Do you think Abraham wasn't aware of the promise of the Messiah?

 

[Dan the deacon]

Agreed.


This is saying that no one in the OT were saved then. That would include King David, Abraham, Enoch, and the list is enormous.

The reason those in the OT were saved is because they believed God's promise of salvation through faith in what the Messiah would do.

Where do you suppose Jesus was for three days?

 

[EmSw]

OT saved people trusted (faith in) God's Love (charity/mercy/grace) wanted and asked for forgiveness and God heard their prays and forgave them. Their is nothing said about faith in the Messiah, being a requirement for them.

I've tried to explain this to FG2, oh, he has ears, but can't hear. There is absolutely nothing about faith in the Messiah in the OT...ABSOLUTELY NOTHING!

This is something he has to add to justify his beliefs.

 

[EmSw]

Paul thought otherwise. He preached Christ from "the Scriptures". That was the OT. Everyone is saved by the same way; faith in Christ.

How was Abraham justified? Faith in Christ. Gen 15:6 Romans 4

Do you think Abraham wasn't aware of the promise of the Messiah?

So, Jesus preached from the OT? Does this include, 'if you want to enter life, keep the commandments'?

Just where did Abraham read about the promise of the Messiah? And do not even add Abraham was justified by faith in Christ. You keep adding to the Bible, and keep adding, and keep adding.

 

[Dan the deacon]

I've tried to explain this to FG2, oh, he has ears, but can't hear. There is absolutely nothing about faith in the Messiah in the OT...ABSOLUTELY NOTHING!

This is something he has to add to justify his beliefs.

Really? Nothing? I disagree. The Messiah is God. The OT is about God. Jesus was there from the begining.

 

[Dan the deacon]

So, Jesus preached from the OT? Does this include, 'if you want to enter life, keep the commandments'?

Just where did Abraham read about the promise of the Messiah? And do not even add Abraham was justified by faith in Christ. You keep adding to the Bible, and keep adding, and keep adding.

They met Him in Sheol. What do you think He was doing between His death and resurrection?

 

[FreeGrace2]

Where do you suppose Jesus was for three days?

The Bible tells us He went to Sheol. To preach to the spirits in prison there.

1 Pet 3:19 - After being made alive, he went and made proclamation to the imprisoned spirits—

 

[FreeGrace2]

So, Jesus preached from the OT? Does this include, 'if you want to enter life, keep the commandments'?

He taught a lot of things. I thought everyone would have known that.

Just where did Abraham read about the promise of the Messiah?

Hew 11:7 - 7 By faith Noah, when warned about things not yet seen, in holy fear built an ark to save his family. By his faith he condemned the world and became heir of the righteousness that is in keeping with faith.

But you probably think the writer just made this up.

Or this:
Heb 11:8-10
8 By faith Abraham, when called to go to a place he would later receive as his inheritance, obeyed and went, even though he did not know where he was going.
9 By faith he made his home in the promised land like a stranger in a foreign country; he lived in tents, as did Isaac and Jacob, who were heirs with him of the same promise.
10 For he was looking forward to the city with foundations, whose architect and builder is God.

Or this:
Heb 11:17-19
17 By faith Abraham, when God tested him, offered Isaac as a sacrifice. He who had embraced the promises was about to sacrifice his one and only son,
18 even though God had said to him, “It is through Isaac that your offspring will be reckoned.”
19 Abraham reasoned that God could even raise the dead, and so in a manner of speaking he did receive Isaac back from death.

And do not even add Abraham was justified by faith in Christ. You keep adding to the Bible, and keep adding, and keep adding.

Your ignorance is appalling.

How could the writer of Hebrews write this?

Heb 11:24-26
24 By faith Moses, when he had grown up, refused to be known as the son of Pharaoh’s daughter.
25 He chose to be mistreated along with the people of God rather than to enjoy the fleeting pleasures of sin.
26 He regarded disgrace for the sake of Christ as of greater value than the treasures of Egypt, because he was looking ahead to his reward.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Really? Nothing? I disagree. The Messiah is God. The OT is about God. Jesus was there from the begining.

There's no use in discussion. He has openly mocked the sacrifice of Jesus on the cross for sins and has called it an abominable human sacrifice.

 

[bling]

Paul thought otherwise. He preached Christ from "the Scriptures". That was the OT. Everyone is saved by the same way; faith in Christ.

How was Abraham justified? Faith in Christ. Gen 15:6 Romans 4

Do you think Abraham wasn't aware of the promise of the Messiah?

Abraham was not the only person saved in the OT.
Knowing about the promise and knowing Christ went to the cross so you can be crucified with Him is not in the OT but is a big part of the NT.

 

[EmSw]

Really? Nothing? I disagree. The Messiah is God. The OT is about God. Jesus was there from the begining.

Why put words into my mouth? I said nothing about the OT isn't about God. If you actually read what I said, you would know I said there is nothing in the OT about having faith in the Messiah. Perhaps you can show us where the OT says this.

 

[EmSw]

They met Him in Sheol. What do you think He was doing between His death and resurrection?

Conquering the hells and freeing mankind.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Abraham was not the only person saved in the OT.

Right. All who believed the promise of the Messiah were saved

Knowing about the promise and knowing Christ went to the cross so you can be crucified with Him is not in the OT but is a big part of the NT.

I disagree. Read Psalm 22 and try NOT to think of the cross.

Then, read Isaiah 53 and again try NOT to think of the cross.

 

[EmSw]

He taught a lot of things. I thought everyone would have known that.

And were any of those things He taught not true? Did He ever tell us anything that would deceive us into believing something were weren't supposed to believe?

Hew 11:7 - 7 By faith Noah, when warned about things not yet seen, in holy fear built an ark to save his family. By his faith he condemned the world and became heir of the righteousness that is in keeping with faith.

But you probably think the writer just made this up.

What the write did not mention was Noah being saved by having faith in the Messiah. Don't stress yourself out trying to find that anywhere in the OT. It's not there.

So, by your faith, do you condemn the world?

Or this:
Heb 11:8-10
8 By faith Abraham, when called to go to a place he would later receive as his inheritance, obeyed and went, even though he did not know where he was going.
9 By faith he made his home in the promised land like a stranger in a foreign country; he lived in tents, as did Isaac and Jacob, who were heirs with him of the same promise.
10 For he was looking forward to the city with foundations, whose architect and builder is God.

Or this:
Heb 11:17-19
17 By faith Abraham, when God tested him, offered Isaac as a sacrifice. He who had embraced the promises was about to sacrifice his one and only son,
18 even though God had said to him, “It is through Isaac that your offspring will be reckoned.”
19 Abraham reasoned that God could even raise the dead, and so in a manner of speaking he did receive Isaac back from death.

Again, nothing about being saved by having faith in

Your ignorance is appalling.

Thank you. Any insult from you, I consider a blessing from the Lord (Luke 6:22).

How could the writer of Hebrews write this?

Heb 11:24-26
24 By faith Moses, when he had grown up, refused to be known as the son of Pharaoh’s daughter.
25 He chose to be mistreated along with the people of God rather than to enjoy the fleeting pleasures of sin.
26 He regarded disgrace for the sake of Christ as of greater value than the treasures of Egypt, because he was looking ahead to his reward.

Wow, you are getting desperate. Do you refuse to be the son of Pharaoh by your faith? Again, no mention of anyone being saved by faith in the Messiah.

BTW, I am still waiting for you to give us a passage from the OT showing how they received life.

 

[FreeGrace2]

And were any of those things He taught not true?

Of course not!

Did He ever tell us anything that would deceive us into believing something were weren't supposed to believe?

Of course not!

What the write did not mention was Noah being saved by having faith in the Messiah. Don't stress yourself out trying to find that anywhere in the OT. It's not there.

Just read Psa 22 and Isa 53 and try not to think of the cross.

So, by your faith, do you condemn the world?

My faith has overcome the world.

1 John 5:4 - for everyone born of God overcomes the world. This is the victory that has overcome the world, even our faith.

Do you know what being born of God means?

Wow, you are getting desperate. Do you refuse to be the son of Pharaoh by your faith?

What is this supposed to mean?

BTW, I am still waiting for you to give us a passage from the OT showing how they received life.

By faith. Just read Hebrews 11.

 

[bling]

Right. All who believed the promise of the Messiah were saved


I disagree. Read Psalm 22 and try NOT to think of the cross.

Then, read Isaiah 53 and again try NOT to think of the cross.

You cannot be crucified with someone if they have not been crucified yet.

 

[FreeGrace2]

You cannot be crucified with someone if they have not been crucified yet.

I don't know what your point is.

This is what you had posted:
"Knowing about the promise and knowing Christ went to the cross so you can be crucified with Him is not in the OT but is a big part of the NT."

This was my response:
"Read Psalm 22 and try NOT to think of the cross.

Then, read Isaiah 53 and again try NOT to think of the cross."

My comments had nothing to do with being "crucified with Him". I was pointing out that both Psa 22 and Isa 53 are about Jesus on the cross. So the OT people knew that the Messiah would suffer if they had read those chapters.

 

[bling]

I don't know what your point is.

This is what you had posted:
"Knowing about the promise and knowing Christ went to the cross so you can be crucified with Him is not in the OT but is a big part of the NT."

This was my response:
"Read Psalm 22 and try NOT to think of the cross.

Then, read Isaiah 53 and again try NOT to think of the cross."

My comments had nothing to do with being "crucified with Him". I was pointing out that both Psa 22 and Isa 53 are about Jesus on the cross. So the OT people knew that the Messiah would suffer if they had read those chapters.

Knowing about a suffering Messiah is not the same as personally feeling responsible for His torture, murder and humiliation, since he has not yet gone through that yet. You cannot be crucified with Christ if Messiah has not been crucified yet.