Can a child molester be saved?

[Kenny'sID]

You aren't reading the Bible with critical tools.

Lets look at this verse from the NIV:

6 “If anyone causes one of these little ones—those who believe in me—to stumble,

Then your saying the critical tools are a different version that say something else? And what makes that version the one to believe

"Little ones" are not necessarily just children, but any believer, as more modern translations often make clear.

Where dose it make clear "little ones" are not children, especially when the comment follows one about children. And that thing about the verse not being even related to the prior, I seriously doubt you are correct.

No tools needed just good ol' common sense.

Curious, did you surmise those on your own or is that something that was taught to you?

 

[Kenny'sID]

This is not even recognizable to me as a Christian doctrine. Not even Catholics preach such a doctrine.

It's never been about what we say or do, it's about what we receive through faith by grace. That is not a work on our part , it is a work of God .

You don't think it's about how we act as in being good? I really wasn't clear what you are saying there.

Lets take homosexuality for instance, and a good for instance because that is something against the word of God that people do as a lifestyle. Do you thing they go to heaven?

 

[ubicaritas]

Then your saying the critical tools are a different version that say something else? And what makes that version the one to believe

I'm saying that Matthew was written decades after Jesus resurrection and its constructed from multiple sources, such as Mark's story account, plus sayings gospels and stories that circulated in the very early church, and isn't necessarily laid out in a neat thematic order.

And the versification and chapter headings of the text is often misleading and does not appear in the original Greek texts.

Where dose it make clear "little ones" are not children, especially when the comment follows one about children. And that thing about the verse not being even related to the prior, I seriously doubt you are correct.

No, what I'm saying is the scholarly consensus and its what most Protestant pastors, who spend years in seminary studying the original texts, would tell you about the verse.

 

[Kenny'sID]

With TRUE saving faith comes repentance. Repentance happens because you are saved, it is not the source of it.

Then you are saying if they stop those things (repent) they are good to go, but only then?

 

[Jven79]

You don't think it's about how we act as in being good? I really wasn't clear what you are saying there.

Lets take homosexuality for instance, and a good for instance because that is something against the word of God that people do as a lifestyle. Do you thing they go to heaven?

I’d a homosexual continues in that lifestyle they will not make it to heaven. If they have TRUE saving faith, they will bear fruit and repent, and then they will be saved. If the process to be a Christian and continue in their ways, well that’s not a true saved Christian

 

[ubicaritas]

You don't think it's about how we act as in being good? I really wasn't clear what you are saying there.

Lets take homosexuality for instance, and a good for instance because that is something against the word of God that people do as a lifestyle. Do you thing they go to heaven?

We should do good for our neighbor's sake but our standing with God is established through Jesus Christ's works alone.

 

[JIMINZ]

when you read the verse prior you see it's about children. That in itself leaves little doubt as I see it, but the fact he used the term "little", why in the world would he refer to the disciples as that?

Still, I'll ask why do you think he is talking disciples there?

.
Can't make it any simpler than this, Jesus own words on the matter.

Mat 18:1-6
1) At the same time came the disciples unto Jesus, saying, Who is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven?
2) And Jesus called a little child unto him, and set him in the midst of them,
3) And said, Verily I say unto you,
Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.
4) Whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child, the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven.
5) And whoso shall receive one such little child in my name receiveth me.
6) But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.

You can see from verses 4-6 Jesus is speaking about those who have been converted and become as little children, Believers, Christians,...... and not a physical little child.

 

[Jven79]

Then you are saying if they stop those things (repent) they are good to go, but only then?

I am saying if they claim to be a Christian, they will no longer be doing those things, just like the homosexuals. If you claim to be a Christian but there is no repentance, then you never truly were a Christian. You repent BECAUSE you’re saved, not TO get saved. You are not saved by works my friend, and that’s the last I’ll say on that because I feel like we’re going in circles here.

 

[NothingIsImpossible]

Well the only way a child molester could not be saved is if the bible said this:

John 3:16 New International Version
16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. 16b Except for child molesters.

But since there is no 16b, even a child molester can be saved. The bible often uses words like "Anyone" or "All whom..."...etc. Meaning there is no one who cannot be saved through Jesus. Though I have seen some christians leave christianity because they refuse to believe God would let in previous child molesters. They say its the worst sin. Truth is any sin you have commited, even if its something as you lied, its equal to the child molester in Gods eyes. Sin is sin. Big or small. So if the child molester was not allowed in, then you would not be let in either. None of us would.

 

[Kenny'sID]

I'm saying that Matthew was written decades after Jesus resurrection and its constructed from multiple sources, such as Mark's story account, plus sayings Gospels and stories that circulated in the very early church, and isn't necessarily laid out in a neat thematic order.

Then your saying the bible can't be trusted as it's written, and it has to be taught to us by the "scholars" or men? And I have a problem with that because look what you just did with a clear verse...it's what men do.

I suppose that's one way of saying it's alright to read the bible to say what we choose it to say. I mean seriously, that scripture fits perfectly with itself, and I'm now suspicious, why you don't want it to say what it does?

No, what I'm saying is the scholarly consensus and its what most Protestant pastors, who spend years in seminary studying the original texts, would tell you about the verse.

Your description come from years of study? Oh my.

 

[Jven79]

Your description come from years of study? Oh my.[/QUOTE]
Kenny maybe question your own heart with your cheap shots here before continuing.

 

[Kenny'sID]

If you claim to be a Christian but there is no repentance, then you never truly were a Christian.

Ah, I see, the "they were never saved to begin with" claim, something there is no way any of us could know. You are saying we cannot fall away from the faith then?

 

[JIMINZ]

Based on Matthew 18:6, my opinion is not a chance

.
First, your verse, is speaking about Christians, not about children in general.

Second.

Isa. 1:18
Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.

Thirdly.

Rom. 3:23
For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

This last verse means, we have all taken our part in placing Jesus on that Cross, no one is any better than anyone else, there are no degrees of Sin with God, all sin deserves the Death penalty.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not defending the Pedophile but we all need to understand where we stand ourselves in the overall plan of God.

 

[Kenny'sID]

Kenny maybe question your own heart with your cheap shots here before continuing.

You are calling my surprise at something said here a cheap shot? Doesn't matter what wrong you choose to pretend I'm doing here, doesn't matter how bad you think you can make me look...it won't change what is right and what is wrong.

See, this stuff usually starts when someone has no backing for their argument....the completely unfounded accusations, that is.

 

[ubicaritas]

Then your saying the bible can't be trusted as it's written, and it has to be taught to us by the "scholars" or men? And I have a problem with that because look what you just did with a clear verse...it's what men do.

We believe in sola scriptura (the Bible alone as the sole norm of faith), as do most other Protestants (with varying emphases). However that does not mean the Bible is necessarily plain in all matters or requires no scholarly effort to understand in depth. My church believes the essential truths of salvation can be known by all (for instance, John 3:16), but we do believe seminary training is necessary to teach or preach in an official capacity in our church.

I suppose that's one way of saying it's alright to read the bible to say what we choose it to say. I mean seriously, that scripture fits perfectly with itself, and I'm now suspicious, why you don't want it to say what it does?

You're confusing a strange, American take on Common-Sense Realism with what the Protestant Reformers understood Sola Scriptura to mean, I'm afraid. We never claimed that an uneducated man was as good as a doctor of theology when it comes to expounding and interpreting the Scriptures.

Your description come from years of study? Oh my.

No, but I asked my pastor about this verse because he told me about it once when we were discussing spiritual abuse.

FWIW, I have spent years studying theology and religion and as a teenager I studied Greek and could read the NT with some help in the original language, so yeah, I do sort of know what I'm talking about . I've even sometimes wondered about whether I should be discerning a call to ministry, at times. But my financial situation is not very good.

 

[JIMINZ]

when you read the verse prior you see it's about children. That in itself leaves little doubt as I see it, but the fact he used the term "little", why in the world would he refer to the disciples as that?

Still, I'll ask why do you think he is talking disciples there?

.
Can't make it any simpler than this, Jesus own words on the matter.

Mat 18:1-6
1) At the same time came the disciples unto Jesus, saying, Who is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven?
2) And Jesus called a little child unto him, and set him in the midst of them,
3) And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.
4) Whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child, the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven.
5) And whoso shall receive one such little child in my name receiveth me.
6) But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.

 

[Kenny'sID]

there are no degrees of Sin with God, all sin deserves the Death penalty

Of course there is, and actually the OP just named a very bad sin. Aome are an abomination and some are not. In the OT, different punishment for different sin, the worse the sin, the worse the punishment.

 

[Daniel Martinovich]

Based on Matthew 18:6, my opinion is not a chance

Well then he had no business preaching in the ancient world where pedophilia was the norm not the exception like today. The reason it is an abomination today is because of the influence of the Gospel and the Word. Back then it was the accepted and totally normalized practice of all the nations outside Ancient Israel. What do you think the primary reason for half the worlds population being enslaved was?

 

[Kenny'sID]

We believe in sola scriptura (the Bible alone as the sole norm of faith), as do most other Protestants (with varying emphases).

We believe in sola scriptura (the Bible alone as the sole norm of faith), as do most other Protestants (with varying emphases). However that does not mean the Bible is necessarily plain in all matters or requires no scholarly effort to understand in depth. My church believes the essential truths of salvation can be known by all (for instance, John 3:16), but we do believe seminary training is necessary to teach or preach in an official capacity in our church.

You really didn't answer the question.

No, but I asked my pastor about this verse because he told me about it once when we were discussing spiritual abuse.

That's what I meant, did your ideas on that come from someone who taught it. This is why I done' think much of people depending on men to teach simple scripture...they mess it up royally.

 

[JIMINZ]

Of course there is, and actually the OP just named a very bad sin. Aome are an abomination and some are not. In the OT, different punishment for different sin, the worse the sin, the worse the punishment.

.
Sorry Kenny but your wrong once again.

Here are some of your abominations.

Pro 6:16 These six things doth the LORD hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him:
Pro 6:17 A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood,
Pro 6:18 An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief,
Pro 6:19 A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren.