Tongues, a different view.

[Dave L]

Do we get it wrong when interpreting the events that took place on Pentecost? Did each of the 12 Apostles supernaturally speak an unlearned human language? Understood by most of the audience in their native tongue? (The common view). Or did each pray aloud in only one heavenly tongue, not human, to God? And foreigners in the audience each heard the single heavenly language in their own native tongues?

According to Paul: “For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.” (1 Corinthians 14:2) (KJV 1900)

So, if they spoke in a heavenly tongue and not in a human tongue. And devout Jews (born again) from every nation understood them in their own native tongues. These must have received the gift of interpretation during the same outpouring.

That is, a heavenly language, not human, spoken to God. Overheard and interpreted in the native language of the hearer who also received the gift of interpretation of tongues at the same time.

Stressing this possibility is that some in the audience heard only gibberish. They heard the Heavenly tongue without interpretation.

Any thoughts?

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Do we get it wrong when interpreting the events that took place on Pentecost? Did each of the 12 Apostles supernaturally speak an unlearned human language? Understood by most of the audience in their native tongue? (The common view). Or did each pray aloud in only one heavenly tongue, not human, to God? And foreigners in the audience each heard the single heavenly language in their own native tongues?

According to Paul: “For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.” (1 Corinthians 14:2) (KJV 1900)

So, if they spoke in a heavenly tongue and not in a human tongue. And devout Jews (born again) from every nation understood them in their own native tongues. These must have received the gift of interpretation during the same outpouring.

That is, a heavenly language, not human, spoken to God. Overheard and interpreted in the native language of the hearer who also received the gift of interpretation of tongues at the same time.

Stressing this possibility is that some in the audience heard only gibberish. They heard the Heavenly tongue without interpretation.

Any thoughts?

We are not told how it happened. What we are told is that the hearers heard their own regional languages spoken by who they saw as uneducated Galileans. The Bible is not a linguistic text book. It was a one off miracle for a specified purpose.

 

[Dave L]

We are not told how it happened. What we are told is that the hearers heard their own regional languages spoken by who they saw as uneducated Galileans. The Bible is not a linguistic text book. It was a one off miracle for a specified purpose.

Paul tells us how tongues work. They are a heavenly language, not human, spoken to God. “For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.” (1 Corinthians 14:2) (KJV 1900)

 

[Sanoy]

If we accept that one is speaking a heavenly language I think we have to lose the concept of a vocal semantic utterance. A spirit in the heavenly realm would not naturally need to pressurize air by vibrating vocal cords, nor would there be a receiving ear drum for the other spirit. So if there is a heavenly language being spoken perhaps it's non verbal and what we hear is merely a triggering of Broca's area of the brain.

 

[Southernscotty]

The first occurrence of speaking in tongues occurred on the day of Pentecost in Acts 2:1-4. The apostles went out and shared the gospel with the crowds, speaking to them in their own languages: “We hear them declaring the wonders of God in our own tongues!” (Acts 2:11). The Greek word translated tongues literally means “languages.” Therefore, the gift of tongues is speaking in a language a person does not know in order to minister to someone who does speak that language. In 1 Corinthians chapters 12–14, Paul discusses miraculous gifts, saying, “Now, brothers, if I come to you and speak in tongues, what good will I be to you, unless I bring you some revelation or knowledge or prophecy or word of instruction?” (1 Corinthians 14:6). According to the apostle Paul, and in agreement with the tongues described in Acts, speaking in tongues is valuable to the one hearing God’s message in his or her own language, but it is useless to everyone else unless it is interpreted/translated.
A person with the gift of interpreting tongues (1 Corinthians 12:30) could understand what a tongues-speaker was saying even though he did not know the language that was being spoken. The tongues interpreter would then communicate the message of the tongues speaker to everyone else, so all could understand. “For this reason anyone who speaks in a tongue should pray that he may interpret what he says” (1 Corinthians 14:13). Paul’s conclusion regarding tongues that were not interpreted is powerful: “But in the church I would rather speak five intelligible words to instruct others than ten thousand words in a tongue” (1 Corinthians 14:19).

Is the gift of tongues for today? First Corinthians 13:8 mentions the gift of tongues ceasing, although it connects the ceasing with the arrival of the “perfect” in 1 Corinthians 13:10. Some point to a difference in the tense of the Greek verbs referring to prophecy and knowledge “ceasing” and that of tongues “being ceased” as evidence for tongues ceasing before the arrival of the “perfect.” While possible, this is not explicitly clear from the text. Some also point to passages such as Isaiah 28:11 and Joel 2:28-29 as evidence that speaking in tongues was a sign of God's oncoming judgment. First Corinthians 14:22 describes tongues as a “sign to unbelievers.” According to this argument, the gift of tongues was a warning to the Jews that God was going to judge Israel for rejecting Jesus Christ as Messiah. Therefore, when God did in fact judge Israel (with the destruction of Jerusalem by the Romans in A.D. 70), the gift of tongues would no longer serve its intended purpose. While this view is possible, the primary purpose of tongues being fulfilled does not necessarily demand its cessation. Scripture does not conclusively assert that the gift of speaking in tongues has ceased.

At the same time, if the gift of speaking in tongues were active in the church today, it would be performed in agreement with Scripture. It would be a real and intelligible language (1 Corinthians 14:10). It would be for the purpose of communicating God's Word with a person of another language (Acts 2:6-12). It would be in agreement with the command God gave through the apostle Paul, “If anyone speaks in a tongue, two—or at the most three—should speak, one at a time, and someone must interpret. If there is no interpreter, the speaker should keep quiet in the church and speak to himself and God” (1 Corinthians 14:27-28). It would also be in accordance with 1 Corinthians 14:33, “For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.”

God most definitely can give a person the gift of speaking in tongues to enable him or her to communicate with a person who speaks another language. The Holy Spirit is sovereign in the dispersion of the spiritual gifts (1 Corinthians 12:11). Just imagine how much more productive missionaries could be if they did not have to go to language school, and were instantly able to speak to people in their own language. However, God does not seem to be doing this. Tongues does not seem to occur today in the manner it did in the New Testament, despite the fact that it would be immensely useful. The vast majority of believers who claim to practice the gift of speaking in tongues do not do so in agreement with the Scriptures mentioned above. These facts lead to the conclusion that the gift of tongues has ceased or is at least a rarity in God's plan for the church today.

 

[Dave L]

If we accept that one is speaking a heavenly language I think we have to lose the concept of a vocal semantic utterance. A spirit in the heavenly realm would not naturally need to pressurize air by vibrating vocal cords, nor would there be a receiving ear drum for the other spirit. So if there is a heavenly language being spoken perhaps it's non verbal and what we hear is merely a triggering of Broca's area of the brain.

I think Paul suggests all of this takes place, but the language is heavenly not human.

 

[Dave L]

The first occurrence of speaking in tongues occurred on the day of Pentecost in Acts 2:1-4. The apostles went out and shared the gospel with the crowds, speaking to them in their own languages: “We hear them declaring the wonders of God in our own tongues!” (Acts 2:11). The Greek word translated tongues literally means “languages.” Therefore, the gift of tongues is speaking in a language a person does not know in order to minister to someone who does speak that language. In 1 Corinthians chapters 12–14, Paul discusses miraculous gifts, saying, “Now, brothers, if I come to you and speak in tongues, what good will I be to you, unless I bring you some revelation or knowledge or prophecy or word of instruction?” (1 Corinthians 14:6). According to the apostle Paul, and in agreement with the tongues described in Acts, speaking in tongues is valuable to the one hearing God’s message in his or her own language, but it is useless to everyone else unless it is interpreted/translated.
A person with the gift of interpreting tongues (1 Corinthians 12:30) could understand what a tongues-speaker was saying even though he did not know the language that was being spoken. The tongues interpreter would then communicate the message of the tongues speaker to everyone else, so all could understand. “For this reason anyone who speaks in a tongue should pray that he may interpret what he says” (1 Corinthians 14:13). Paul’s conclusion regarding tongues that were not interpreted is powerful: “But in the church I would rather speak five intelligible words to instruct others than ten thousand words in a tongue” (1 Corinthians 14:19).

Is the gift of tongues for today? First Corinthians 13:8 mentions the gift of tongues ceasing, although it connects the ceasing with the arrival of the “perfect” in 1 Corinthians 13:10. Some point to a difference in the tense of the Greek verbs referring to prophecy and knowledge “ceasing” and that of tongues “being ceased” as evidence for tongues ceasing before the arrival of the “perfect.” While possible, this is not explicitly clear from the text. Some also point to passages such as Isaiah 28:11 and Joel 2:28-29 as evidence that speaking in tongues was a sign of God's oncoming judgment. First Corinthians 14:22 describes tongues as a “sign to unbelievers.” According to this argument, the gift of tongues was a warning to the Jews that God was going to judge Israel for rejecting Jesus Christ as Messiah. Therefore, when God did in fact judge Israel (with the destruction of Jerusalem by the Romans in A.D. 70), the gift of tongues would no longer serve its intended purpose. While this view is possible, the primary purpose of tongues being fulfilled does not necessarily demand its cessation. Scripture does not conclusively assert that the gift of speaking in tongues has ceased.

At the same time, if the gift of speaking in tongues were active in the church today, it would be performed in agreement with Scripture. It would be a real and intelligible language (1 Corinthians 14:10). It would be for the purpose of communicating God's Word with a person of another language (Acts 2:6-12). It would be in agreement with the command God gave through the apostle Paul, “If anyone speaks in a tongue, two—or at the most three—should speak, one at a time, and someone must interpret. If there is no interpreter, the speaker should keep quiet in the church and speak to himself and God” (1 Corinthians 14:27-28). It would also be in accordance with 1 Corinthians 14:33, “For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.”

God most definitely can give a person the gift of speaking in tongues to enable him or her to communicate with a person who speaks another language. The Holy Spirit is sovereign in the dispersion of the spiritual gifts (1 Corinthians 12:11). Just imagine how much more productive missionaries could be if they did not have to go to language school, and were instantly able to speak to people in their own language. However, God does not seem to be doing this. Tongues does not seem to occur today in the manner it did in the New Testament, despite the fact that it would be immensely useful. The vast majority of believers who claim to practice the gift of speaking in tongues do not do so in agreement with the Scriptures mentioned above. These facts lead to the conclusion that the gift of tongues has ceased or is at least a rarity in God's plan for the church today.

I think we might be reading Acts incorrectly whether we are cessationists or not. If tongues are not a human language as Paul says: “For the one speaking in a tongue does not speak to people but to God, for no one understands; he is speaking mysteries by the Spirit.” (1 Corinthians 14:2) Then the gift of interpretation would transpose the heavenly tongue into the vernacular.

 

[Southernscotty]

I think we might be reading Acts incorrectly whether we are cessationists or not. If tongues are not a human language as Paul says: “For the one speaking in a tongue does not speak to people but to God, for no one understands; he is speaking mysteries by the Spirit.” (1 Corinthians 14:2) Then the gift of interpretation would transpose the heavenly tongue into the vernacular.

That is a personal prayer tongue, That is used between one person and God, I have heard of this and the people who do it, Say that they do not interpret it, Only God knows what they are saying?

 

[Dave L]

That is a personal prayer tongue, That is used between one person and God, I have heard of this and the people who do it, Say that they do not interpret it, Only God knows what they are saying?

I don't think scripture differentiates between "prayer" and "speaking" tongues. Both end the same way with interpretation.

 

[1stcenturylady]

We are not told how it happened. What we are told is that the hearers heard their own regional languages spoken by who they saw as uneducated Galileans. The Bible is not a linguistic text book. It was a one off miracle for a specified purpose.

Not exactly, no. However, when we humans read Acts 2 with our preconceived ideas about speaking and hearing, we miss the subtleties that let us see that the HEARING was supernatural, because we are concentrating only on the speaking.

6 And when this sound occurred, the multitude came together, and were confused, because everyone heard them speak in his own language. 7 Then they were all amazed and marveled, saying to one another, “Look, are not all these who speak Galileans? 8 And how is it that we hear, each in our own language in which we were born? 9 Parthians and Medes and Elamites, those dwelling in Mesopotamia, Judea and Cappadocia, Pontus and Asia, 10 Phrygia and Pamphylia, Egypt and the parts of Libya adjoining Cyrene, visitors from Rome, both Jews and proselytes, 11 Cretans and Arabs—we hear them speaking in our own tongues the wonderful works of God.”

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

That is a personal prayer tongue, That is used between one person and God, I have heard of this and the people who do it, Say that they do not interpret it, Only God knows what they are saying?

Do THEY know what they are saying? So if THEY do not know and others there do not know, what good is it?

 

[Southernscotty]

Do THEY know what they are saying? So if THEY do not know and others there do not know, what good is it?

That is my question as well, However only God understands it from what they tell me?

 

[1stcenturylady]

Do THEY know what they are saying? So if THEY do not know and others there do not know, what good is it?

The Spirit knows. God partners with us and lets us become part of the process. But in church, we are there to learn, so interpretation is necessary.

 

[Southernscotty]

The Spirit knows. God partners with us and lets us become part of the process. But in church, we are there to learn, so interpretation is necessary.

But in a "prayer tongue" I have been told that it is between you and God, So how does it edify the church or the christian? Is it just for God's glory? I am kinda confused on this

 

[1stcenturylady]

But in a "prayer tongue" I have been told that it is between you and God, So how does it edify the church or the christian? Is it just for God's glory? I am kinda confused on this

There are two types of tongues, though they sound alike. One is TO God, and the other is FROM God.

We praise and pray TO God - called our prayer language. It is not required to be interpreted as we are alone when we do it in obedience to God. Paul does tell us to pray for interpretation, but it is not the rule that we understand. This sign gift is from Mark 16:17.

The From God gift of diverse kinds of tongues, are messages from God that absolutely require interpretation for they are for the profit of all. 1 Corinthians 14:6 tells what those messages from God are. The word "unless" in that verse connects it with tongues, and thus interpretation of tongues.

 

[Southernscotty]

There are two types of tongues, though they sound alike. One is TO God, and the other is FROM God.

We praise and pray TO God - called our prayer language. It is not required to be interpreted as we are alone when we do it in obedience to God. Paul does tell us to pray for interpretation, but it is not the rule that we understand. This sign gift is from Mark 16:17.

The From God gift of diverse kinds of tongues, are messages from God that absolutely require interpretation for they are for the profit of all. 1 Corinthians 14:6 tells what those messages from God are. The word "unless" in that verse connects it with tongues, and thus interpretation of tongues.

OK thank you, I knew there was two but wasn't for sure on the prayer tongue itself. I didn't think the christian got the interpretation most of the time.

 

[1stcenturylady]

OK thank you, I knew there was two but wasn't for sure on the prayer tongue itself. I didn't think the christian got the interpretation most of the time.

Paul wants us to pray for it, but from what I've seen it is not common

 

[Alithis]

Do we get it wrong when interpreting the events that took place on Pentecost? Did each of the 12 Apostles supernaturally speak an unlearned human language? Understood by most of the audience in their native tongue? (The common view). Or did each pray aloud in only one heavenly tongue, not human, to God? And foreigners in the audience each heard the single heavenly language in their own native tongues?

According to Paul: “For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.” (1 Corinthians 14:2) (KJV 1900)

So, if they spoke in a heavenly tongue and not in a human tongue. And devout Jews (born again) from every nation understood them in their own native tongues. These must have received the gift of interpretation during the same outpouring.

That is, a heavenly language, not human, spoken to God. Overheard and interpreted in the native language of the hearer who also received the gift of interpretation of tongues at the same time.

Stressing this possibility is that some in the audience heard only gibberish. They heard the Heavenly tongue without interpretation.

Any thoughts?

i think it is BOTH ..or all three .. some heard unintelligible language ,some heard their own language some heard another language not their own but recognized it .. sis all people hear all of them in their own tongue .. i don't think so , i don't know i wasn't there

but its would not be out of line with scripture to suggest some heard unintelligible language .when GOD spoke from heaven and said to Jesus "I have glorified it and will glorify it again" many heard the word and OTHERS said it thundered .. some hear words others heard thunder .

 

[Alithis]

OK thank you, I knew there was two but wasn't for sure on the prayer tongue itself. I didn't think the christian got the interpretation most of the time.

we need to remember there is some distinct difference between interpretation and Translation

 

[1stcenturylady]

i think it is BOTH ..or all three .. some heard unintelligible language ,some heard their own language some heard another language not their own but recognized it .. sis all people hear all of them in their own tongue .. i don't think so , i don't know i wasn't there

but its would not be out of line with scripture to suggest some heard unintelligible language .when GOD spoke from heaven and said to Jesus "I have glorified it and will glorify it again" many heard the word and OTHERS said it thundered .. some hear words others heard thunder .

God's word does not lie, so we have to go to the rule, and see how the story fits to the rule. Acts 2 is the story. 1 Corinthians 14:2 is the rule.

1. Tongues are not speaking or preaching as some false doctrines teach, to MEN. Why?

2. No man understands them.

With the rules in your head, now go back and read the story.

We see they understood. So how do they hear? Naturally, or supernaturally? Go back to the rule, and add other gifts - interpretation of tongues. Simple.