Why worship Mary?

[Lybrah]

Who came up with the idea that Mary (Jesus' mother) is queen of heaven, and that people should worship her? Why did that happen?

 

[~Anastasia~]

Anyone who worships Mary would be going far overboard.

She deserves honor, but only God can be worshipped.

 

[Lybrah]

That didn't answer my question. Who started the movement and why?

 

[TuxAme]

Well, we need a new question to answer because nobody in their right mind worships Mary.

 

[~Anastasia~]

I don't know exactly who or when in that manner of expression.

I know that there was a precedent from very early in Christianity to point out Mary's role in similarity to the "Queen mother". In the history of Israel (which of course Christianity borrowed from in its establishment) - the Queen was generally the mother of the King, rather than his wife as we tend to consider today.

 

[chevyontheriver]

That didn't answer my question. Who started the movement and why?

What movement? The 'worship Mary' movement? I wasn't aware of it. Can you provide details?

 

[Alithis]

That didn't answer my question. Who started the movement and why?

satan did . ANYTHING that takes attention of Jesus to share his Honor is NOT of GOD .
heck read the signs . these days they sing songs saying Lucifer is savior( lucifer means light bearer . the difference is he LOST that position and he was ,past tense the light beaerer NOT THE LIGHT ) in the vatican .Jesus is "the LIGHT" . Satan who was in time past called "light bearer", got proud and got the sack as is thrown down )
But your only going to get inundated with lies and ambiguity with this kind of Question. lie number one , they dont worship her they venerate her . lie number 2 shes the mother of god and deserves worship - nope false woman, came from man not man from woman and Jesus came before man . lie number three -the popes called holy father . Nope this is the title Jesus used for God Alone etc etc .its full of lie after lie upon lie .

but where did it begin , at the fall . also at the time of nimrod whose mother immortalized him in people minds saying when he died he became the SUN not son and she the moon and the moon woman holding the sun child is an image stil used in the rcc today . big problem was Constantine(i think he was) never really converted . only on an intellectual basis . he set about to bring worship under control and being a former high priest in the worship of the SUN god he changed things to a focus on SUN day . ( no worse then those who want to focus on SATurnday ) .they also bought across many pagan practices some being the worship of goddess characters which they renamed Mary .this goddess worship has many names but its the same false goddess . we know this because ANY simple bible study displays the rcc mary goddess and the Mary of the bible are absolutely not the same .
the rabbit hole goes deeper then the surface im scratching, but it has ZERO scriptural basis and is Godless to the utter extreme of godlessness. presently there is a move on to unite denominations back under Rome and in fact all religions under Rome . but that is just to form the position of false prophet to proceed the manifestation of the beast( the same personage that Islam is waiting for) ,a mighty strong being who many will actually believe is God . But he is not the ALmighty. so no true worshiper of the lord Jesus can EVER come into fellowship with darkness .
now on cf we get in trouble if we call a lie a lie and we get in trouble if we call the one saying a lie .. a "liar" because we are not free to speak the truth here . but there you have it .

 

[amariselle]

Who came up with the idea that Mary (Jesus' mother) is queen of heaven, and that people should worship her? Why did that happen?

I’m not sure when exactly in history Mary came to be acknowledged and known as “the Queen of Heaven”, but nothing even remotely like the honour given to Mary is to be found in Scripture as something believers should ever give to anyone other than God. (In terms of the “Queen of Heaven”, there is a reference to people worshipping such a “goddess” in the OT, and it’s not favourable).

Also, many of the doctrines and traditions regarding Mary have evolved over time. For example, Mary’s “assumption” wasn’t declared official Catholic doctrine until November 1, 1950, by Pope Pius XII.

 

[TuxAme]

As Anastasia mentioned, the Tradition of Mary being Queen of Heaven has its origins in the Jewish custom of the queen of Israel being the king's mother. This practice was adopted because Jewish kings practiced polygamy, and it eliminated the need for a king to select one queen out of his many wives. It's more complex than what can be written in a single paragraph, but one basis for this is that Jesus wasn't an earthly king, but we know Him to be sitting on the throne of David now. Likewise, Mary didn't have an earthly queenship, because her Son wasn't an earthly king. But now that He is on that throne, and she is with Him, she practices a heavenly queenship alongside her Son, as it is now appropriate for her to do.

 

[~Anastasia~]

If folks are going to look for Christian History - it would be nice if they'd look within actual Christian history.

Maybe start with the likes of Ignatius of Antioch, Polycarp of Smyrna, Clement of Rome, Justin Martyr - instead of Hislop and his ilk.

 

[TuxAme]

I’m not sure when exactly in history Mary came to be acknowledged and known as “the Queen of Heaven”, but nothing even remotely like the honour given to Mary is to be found in Scripture as something believers should ever give to anyone other than God. (In terms of the “Queen of Heaven”, there is a reference to people worshipping such a “goddess” in the OT, and it’s not favourable).

Also, many of the doctrines and traditions regarding Mary have evolved over time. For example, Mary’s “assumption” wasn’t declared official Catholic doctrine until November 1, 1950, by Pope Pius XII.

Yes, Scripture does mention a "queen of heaven". That queen of heaven was a pagan goddess and was being offered sacrifices by Israelites. Here's the thing: they're a goddess. They never existed and never will exist. They were offered sacrifice- Mary isn't offered any such sacrifices. There's no connection aside from the title- and the pagans had gods of their own, yet we still attribute that title to the God with no problems.

 

[Athanasius377]

Who came up with the idea that Mary (Jesus' mother) is queen of heaven, and that people should worship her? Why did that happen?

Who worships Mary? Neither Rome nor Orthodoxy teach such a thing.

 

[amariselle]

If folks are going to look for Christian History - it would be nice if they'd look within actual Christian history.

Maybe start with the likes of Ignatius of Antioch, Polycarp of Smyrna, Clement of Rome, Justin Martyr - instead of Hislop and his ilk.

The Scriptures teach us about pagan gods and goddesses, and Babylon as well. Hislop (and his writings) is a contentious subject for many, but from the Bible itself we can learn much regarding pagan nations and their idolatry.

 

[Athanasius377]

That didn't answer my question. Who started the movement and why?

There was always from the earliest days of the ancient Church that gave honor to Mary and rightfully so as she was Mother of God. The term has its roots in defining the Person and Work of Christ Jesus and not with anything intrinsic about Mary. You may want to narrow your question a bit. Are you referring to the Marian Dogmas that Rome teaches or the historic reverence that Christians have always given Mary because of Christ? Also saying that people worship Mary is insulting to any Christian so you may want to revise the question.

 

[amariselle]

Yes, Scripture does mention a "queen of heaven". That queen of heaven was a pagan goddess and was being offered sacrifices by Israelites. Here's the thing: they're a goddess. They never existed and never will exist. They were offered sacrifice- Mary isn't offered any such sacrifices. There's no connection aside from the title- and the pagans had gods of their own, yet we still attribute that title to the God with no problems.

So, when the Pope entrusts all of humanity’s temporal and eternal destines to “Mary”, that’s not offering all of humanity to her?

Or when individuals “consecrate” themselves to “Mary”, they are not offering themselves and their devotion to her?

Or, if we believe “Our Lady of Fatima” when she said she can offer salvation to all those devoted to her “Immaculate Heart”, that’s not a command or exhortation to offer one’s devotion to her? (And for salvation no less).

Like it or not, there are many in the Catholic Church who absolutely do worship “Mary” and offer themselves to her.

So, I must strongly disagree with your statement that no sacrifices are offered to her. Many offer her their very souls, what more of a sacrifice can their be?

 

[~Anastasia~]

The Scriptures teach us about pagan gods and goddesses, and Babylon as well. Hislop (and his writings) is a contentious subject for many, but from the Bible itself we can learn much regarding pagan nations and their idolatry.

Yes but just because something is mentioned in a negative light in the OT doesn't make the necessary connection.

One could - God forbid - point to the sacrifice of Christ and connect it to human sacrifice to pagan gods which was completely forbidden in the OT. And one would be wrong.

Or one could look at Revelation 12 at the heavenly-clad woman with a crown of stars, about to be delivered of a male Child - who has many similarities to the Virgin Mary.

Similarities don't always tell the whole story. Scripture was written in a context and must be understood that way.

Some people unfortunately are taught that others are doing evil and believe that about them - without asking them what they actually believe. Catholicism has been especially the target of such propaganda. I'm not Catholic, and have differences with them theologically, but I know this because I asked them (many times over a few years) what they believed and listened to their answers, not because I read what someone with an axe to grind had to say.

Always better to ASK someone what they believe, and why. You don't have to agree. But then at least you'll know what exactly you don't agree with and why, instead of continually erecting the same straw men over and over just for the chance to burn them up again.

That doesn't edify anyone's soul.

 

[TuxAme]

So, when the Pope entrusts all of humanity’s temporal and eternal destines to “Mary”, that’s not offering all of humanity to her?

Or when individuals “consecrate” themselves to “Mary”, they are not offering themselves and their devotion to her?

Or, if we believe “Our Lady of Fatima” when she said she can offer salvation to all those devoted to her “Immaculate Heart”, that’s not a command or exhortation to offer one’s devotion to her? (And for salvation no less).

Like it or not, there are many in the Catholic Church who absolutely do worship “Mary” and offer themselves to her.

So, I must strongly disagree with your statement that no sacrifices are offered to her. Many offer her their very souls, what more of a sacrifice can their be?

You're the one who mentioned the verse from Jeremiah, but now you're going beyond it and trying to apply everything besides what the verse mentioned to Marian devotion. Here's the verse you referenced:

The children gather wood, the fathers kindle fire, and the women knead dough, to make cakes for the queen of heaven.

Nowhere do I see anything that you have just now posted going on. You're ignoring what I said and straying from the subject at hand.

 

[amariselle]

Yes but just because something is mentioned in a negative light in the OT doesn't make the necessary connection.

If the Bible (God’s inspired word) tells us something is “negative” or forbidden, we do well to heed what it says.

One could - God forbid - point to the sacrifice of Christ and connect it to human sacrifice to pagan gods which was completely forbidden in the OT.

Not if one understands the Scriptures.

And one would be wrong.

Of course.

Or one could look at Revelation 12 at the heavenly-clad woman with a crown of stars, about to be delivered of a male Child - who has many similarities to the Virgin Mary.

Indeed. There is much imagery in Revelation.

Similarities don't always tell the whole story. Scripture was written in a context and must be understood that way.

Agreed.

Some people unfortunately are taught that others are doing evil and believe that about them - without asking them what they actually believe.

And some people actually take the time so carefully study and learn what others truly believe. One should not assume that just because someone objects to a particular belief or practice they must be ignorant of what they are objecting to and why.

Catholicism has been especially the target of such propaganda.

That is a major accusation, yes.

I'm not Catholic, and have differences with them theologically, but I know this because I asked them (many times over a few years) what they believed and listened to their answers, not because I read what someone with an axe to grind had to say.

There’s that false assertion again, that everyone who objects to Catholicism is simply being “hateful” or “bashing” because they have “an axe to grind.” This is false. I have spent a lot of time studying and learning from official Catholic sources what they believe. My maternal grandparents were Catholic as well and my mother was raised Catholic. For these reasons and after I had attended many Catholic Masses myself, I started to ask questions and do careful research. Many others have done the same, so I can assure you that not everyone who objects to Catholicism is hateful or has “an axe to grind.”

Always better to ASK someone what they believe, and why. You don't have to agree. But then at least you'll know what exactly you don't agree with and why, instead of continually erecting the same straw men over and over just for the chance to burn them up again.

Again, you are making very serious false assumptions about me and anyone who objects to Catholicism. I wish you wouldn’t do that, it’s far from helpful. There are members here that know precisely what the official teachings and traditions of the Catholic Church are and they firmly disagree with them. (Some are even former Catholics and are more than aware of what they’re objecting to).

That doesn't edify anyone's soul.

Again, not all disagreement comes from ignorance. That is an incorrect and oversimplified assessment. But, a very common accusation.

 

[amariselle]

You're the one who mentioned the verse from Jeremiah, but now you're going beyond it and trying to apply everything besides what the verse mentioned to Marian devotion.

I mentioned it only because the OP included the question of Mary being called “Queen of Heaven.” You are the one who chose to go further with that reference.

Here's the verse you referenced:

The children gather wood, the fathers kindle fire, and the women knead dough, to make cakes for the queen of heaven.

Yes....

Nowhere do I see anything that you have just now posted going on.

In that case you really need to do some research. Everything I listed has happened/is happening.

You're ignoring what I said and straying from the subject at hand.

Incorrect. You said no one offers sacrifices to Mary, I gave you several actual example that show they do.

 

[amariselle]

For anyone who believes that no one actually offers themselves (body and soul) to “Mary” consider these words from prayers of “consecration to the Immaculate Heart of Mary”:

In the presence of all the heavenly court I choose thee this day, for my Mother and Mistress. I deliver and consecrate to thee, as thy slave, my body and soul, my goods, both interior and exterior, and even the value of all my good actions, past, present and future; leaving to thee the entire and full right of disposing of me, and all that belongs to me, without exception, according to thy good pleasure, for the greater glory of God, in time and in eternity. Amen.

O Mary,
Virgin most powerful and Mother of mercy, Queen of Heaven and Refuge of sinners, we consecrate ourselves to thine Immaculate Heart.
We consecrate to thee our very being and our whole life; all that we have, all that we love, all that we are.
To thee we give our bodies, our hearts and our souls; to thee we give our homes, our families, our country.
We desire that all that is in us and around us may belong to thee, and may share in the benefits of thy motherly benediction.

Source: Marian Prayers

How is the above NOT worship?