Sarah Sanders and Family Denied Service at Virginia Restaurant

[Liza B.]

Say this with me: We do not have a completely free market system.

We have a system that encourages economic growth based on free market principles but we also have protections in place to prevent discrimination and other regulations in place to prevent economic manipulation.

I have not once advocated for a completely free market system and never will. This is the only thing I have said about the free market system in this thread:



The free market system that we have today is one with checks and balances to protect both consumers and businesses. You know what? It worked perfectly today. A small business owner was able to deny service to a public official who is paid by taxpayers.

It was a great day.

I understand that. But if you think it was a great day because SS was refused a meal, but it's a terrible day when a Christian refuses to bake a gay wedding cake because his moral conscience objects, then I submit you're letting biases get in your way.

 

[Liza B.]

She was making the gay waiters feel uncomfortable because she is a public official that has gone on record against their lifestyle. Good luck finding a lawyer that is going to find religious discrimination based on the public statements of Sarah Sanders as a public official.

That's right. They were refusing to serve her a meal because they disagree with her stance. Exactly. Now. Name me a Christian restaurant owner who has refused to serve gay people A MEAL because he disagrees with THEIR lifestyle. Just a meal. Eating.

 

[Brent W]

That's right. They were refusing to serve her a meal because they disagree with her stance. Exactly. Now. Name me a Christian restaurant owner who has refused to serve gay people A MEAL because he disagrees with THEIR lifestyle. Just a meal. Eating.

How else do you consume cake?

 

[Liza B.]

How else do you consume cake?

It's not the cake. Baker would make a birthday cake, a retirement cake, etc. It's the WEDDING. It's the event. I'm sure the gay waiters would not want to serve SS in a banquet at the restaurant if she were there for a Focus on the Family event, and that may be legitimate. But she was not. She was just eating a meal, like people do.

So I ask you again. Do you not see the difference between just serving a person, even if you disagree with their lifestyle or opinions, and serving an event which is meant to celebrate that which you find deeply sinful? Because there's a huge difference.

 

[Brent W]

but it's a terrible day when a Christian refuses to bake a gay wedding cake because his moral conscience objects

Where did I ever say this?

 

[iluvatar5150]

Lol what difference does that make?

You're saying they should be able to deny her because of her views?

She wasn't denied because of her views. She was denied because of her job:
The owner of the Red Hen explains why she asked Sarah Huckabee Sanders to leave

It was important to Wilkinson, she said, that Sanders had already been served — that her staff had not simply refused her on sight. And it was important to her that Sanders was a public official, not just a customer with whom she disagreed, many of whom were included in her regular clientele.

Civil rights laws are mostly based around characteristics that are either immutable or at least deeply personal and extremely difficult to change:

Sex
Race
Religion
Marital Status
National Origin
Sexual orientation (some states)

While political beliefs could arguably come sorta close to religion on that scale, a person's job doesn't - particularly when that job is a choice high-profile job in a political administration and that person has numerous other career options.

As to whether or not the restaurateur should be able to discriminate against a public official for actions taken on behalf of a government entity - yes, absolutely. It's a form of political protest.

As to whether or not a restaurateur or other business owner should discriminate against a random citizen merely for their political beliefs - no, I don't think they should, though I'm not sure that codifying it into law would be the best course of action.

As to whether or not the restaurateur at the Red Hen should have chosen this course of action - I'm not sure. Part of me likes the idea of these terrible policies (or even just their terrible, thoughtless execution) having negative consequences for the people implementing them. But I don't know how productive that is. I don't like that the server went and posted the picture to everybody.

In case you ever, ever doubted that politics is their religion--doubt no more. Now, let's see them actually come out and admit it, hopefully when liberals start to refuse service to conservatives all over the place and one of these cases goes to court and they have to cite their Leftism as their actual religion.

I've been saying this for a while now - that what's rising on the left is a dogmatic religion with left-wing ideals instead of the usual right-wing ideals.

 

[Brent W]

So I ask you again. Do you not see the difference between just serving a person, even if you disagree with their lifestyle or opinions, and serving an event which is meant to celebrate that which you find deeply sinful?

No. Sarah Sanders stands for everything this small business owner is against. Why in the world should this small business owner lower their standards and be forced to take Sarah Sanders money just because it isn't associated with some kind of event?

This is getting ridiculous.

You are getting emotional about this. There is emotion and there is the law and in both cases the law, whether you agree with it or not, has stated that sexual orientation is not protected over religious beliefs (via the Supreme Court ruling) and the current law of the lands says that this small business owner can deny service to Sarah Sanders because she doesn't want to serve someone she can't stand.

Under the current laws, forcing that small business to serve Sarah Sanders would have been a violation of the small business owners rights.

What Sarah Sanders did to that small business owner via an official Government twitter account, may well be a violation of that companies First Amendments rights.

Using your position of power as public official to take out a small business because your feelings were hurt is pretty scary.

 

[Liza B.]

Where did I ever say this?

You thought it was great that Sarah Sanders was refused. I don't, as a Christian. I'm not going to argue with you anymore, I'm just going to state where I stand. I don't think it's great that anyone is refused a meal because opinions. As a Christian. I mean that for liberals, for hard Leftists, for gay couples, for criminals, for everyone. Every human being needs to eat. I am not a foodie and I can't cook that wonderfully, but if I had a restaurant, I would refuse no one.

That's really all I have to say about that. I don't think it's great, then, that SS was refused and I don't understand all the glee about it. But it is quite discouraging. I'll tell you that.

 

[Brent W]

You thought it was great that Sarah Sanders was refused. I don't, as a Christian.

That is because you are trying to make it something that it isn't.

I care about this based on the facts. The facts are this:

• Employees at the business did not want to serve Sarah Sanders specifically. She was singled out due to here being a public official.
• The owner arrived at the store, took her aside individually and asked Sarah Sanders to leave.
• She told the remaining guests they could stay and they would be served.
• They decided to leave on their own.
• Sarah Sanders then went on an official Government twitter account and attacked the small business owner as retribution.

This is not a religious issue. Sarah Sanders was asked to leave because she was a public official. Everyone else at the table, including her Husband, more than likely holds the same beliefs as Sarah Sanders but were told they could stay.

This is a straightforward case of a small business owner denying service to a Public official in a political protest. Trying to make it anything else is simply avoiding the facts of this.

 

[Brent W]

Every human being needs to eat.

LOL now you are introducing some serious hyperbole.

 

[Liza B.]

I've been saying this for a while now - that what's rising on the left is a dogmatic religion with left-wing ideals instead of the usual right-wing ideals.

Yes, and what's particularly harrowing about it is there's no mitigating effect of real religion. It's the Fundamentalism without grace, without mercy, without redemption. You will follow their Religious Code or you will be made to suffer.

Right now they are destroying a woman online who sadly tried to call the police on an 8 year old girl who was selling water in CA. Woman is white; girl is black. I don't in any way condone what the woman did. But now her entire life is going to be destroyed. She was an entrepreneur and already businesses are not going to carry her product.

No grace, no mercy, no redemption. A pitiless religion of Justice. Truly horrid.

 

[brinny]

This owner, from a purely business sense, treats customers abominably and ig'nantly.

This restaurant should be boycotted and any businesses that both of these owners are associated with.

This is a horribly un-welcoming place of business and should therefore be "run out of business" just as this owner "ran" a customer out of this restaurant, accompanied by all 7 family members.

This restaurant needs to close down along with it's toxic hatred and vitriolic discrimination and hypocrisy.

So be it.

 

[Brent W]

No grace, no mercy, no redemption. A pitiless religion of Justice. Truly horrid.

Wish you had the same empathy for a small business owner being attacked for using her freedom of speech to stand of to a public official. Trump supporters are making that small business owner miserable. Attacking her business online, calling in fake reservations. They have had to cancel business because of people who support Trump. It certainly doesn't help when a public official uses a Government account to also go after you.

But no empathy for this woman who is a small business owner?

 

[Liza B.]

Wish you had the same empathy for a small business owner being attacked for using her freedom of speech to stand of to a public official. Trump supporters are making that small business owner miserable. Attacking her business online, calling in fake reservations. They have had to cancel business because of people who support Trump. It certainly doesn't help when a public official uses a Government account to also go after you.

But no empathy for this woman who is a small business owner?

Why don't you take a breath. I didn't say her life should be ruined or that I didn't have any empathy for her. And my response above wasn't even intended for you.

 

[Brent W]

This owner, from a purely business sense, treats customers abominably and ig'nantly.

Based on what? One public officials review of the business? How many times have you frequented the establishment?

This restaurant should be boycotted and any businesses that both of these owners are associated with.

Based on what?

This is a horribly un-welcoming place of business and should therefore be "run out of business" just as this owner "ran" a customer out of this restaurant, accompanied by all 7 family members.

She used her 1st amendment right to stand up to a public official. She did not remove the remaining 7 people and in fact told them to stay and eat for free. Those 7 people decided to remove themselves as their own protest.

This restaurant needs to close down along with it's toxic hatred and vitriolic discrimination and hypocrisy.

What? What else have they done other than exercise their rights against one public official? Can you provide more instances to backup this review of their business or are you basing your entire opinion on this business on this one incident?

 

[Brent W]

Why don't you take a breath. I didn't say her life should be ruined or that I didn't have any empathy for her. And my response above wasn't even intended for you.

Whether it was intended to be toward me or not, you seem to stick up a lot more for this other woman than the one who stood up to a public official and is now having that public official attack her and try to ruin her business.

 

[SilverBear]

And that is not what happened, which people on your side dishonestly portraying it as.

so refusing to let a group of people dine in your restaurant is discrimination even though the restaurant will sell them take out?

 

[Liza B.]

Whether it was intended to be toward me or not, you seem to stick up a lot more for this other woman than the one who stood up to a public official and is now having that public official attack here and try to ruin her business.

I'm sorry--am I not allowed my opinions on this opinion site? Am I not allowed to think one was more in the wrong than the other?

What in the world is going on here?

 

[Brent W]

I'm sorry--am I not allowed my opinions on this opinion site? Am I not allowed to think one was more in the wrong than the other?

What in the world is going on here?

I'm not stopping you from typing I am asking questions. Stop being so defensive and either answer my questions or ignore them if you wish. No one is saying you can't have opinions so stop being so defensive.

I am making an observation that you are taking sides here. One women is being harrassed just the same as the other but you seem to be sticking up for one more than the other for some reason.

 

[Liza B.]

I'm not stopping you from typing I am asking questions. Stop being so defensive and either answer my questions or ignore them if you wish. No one is saying you can't have opinions so stop being so defensive.

Okay then, I think one is more in the wrong than the other. I am defensive because you are coming on VERY strong.