Sarah Sanders and Family Denied Service at Virginia Restaurant

[Brent W]

This restaurant had every right to discriminate on the grounds they have determined. If republicans are not welcome there, so be it.

This is really all that matters in this thread.

Here are the reasons people are upset:

• They are Republican and/or Trump fans and are offended that the free market system they claim to love has worked against them.

 

[Liza B.]

This is really all that matters in this thread.

Here are the reasons people are upset:

• They are Republican and/or Trump fans and are offended that the free market system they claim to love has worked against them.

Wrong. We have to agree on a system and then it has to go all ways. All ways.

If we want total, free market systems, anyone can refuse anyone for any reason. SHS can be refused, the gay couple can be refused, a black person can be refused, a white person can be refused. Anyone can be refused cause someone doesn't like the jeans you're wearing. Total free market; no restrictions.

We can go where almost no requests are refused. You own a bakery, you will bake a cake for anyone who walks in the door. You're Jewish, you will bake a cake for the Nazi rally. You're Muslim, you will bake a cake for the gay wedding too. Etc, etc, etc. If you agree on this system, a business owner is almost an indentured servant of the customer.

I take a middle position, where generally the free market should be allowed to operate with some boundaries. I do not believe people should be refused based on "who they are" but I believe some events should be able to be refused especially when there are deep religious objections or the request is obscene, etc. The Red Hen did not fall under this because SHS was simply eating a meal, as all humans do. It would be akin to a Christian restaurant owner refusing to serve a gay couple a simple meal. Which to my knowledge has not happened.

 

[Ignatius the Kiwi]

This is really all that matters in this thread.

Here are the reasons people are upset:

• They are Republican and/or Trump fans and are offended that the free market system they claim to love has worked against them.

I actually don't like what this owner did. I cannot say they didn't have the right to deny service on the basis of their beleifs.

 

[Brent W]

I remember a couple of black guys asked to leave a Starbucks just awhile ago...people seemed offended they were even asked to leave.

Anyone that understands law will understand the difference. There is no law that states you can not be refused service for your political beliefs in the Town where the incident occurred and there is no County, State, or Federal law either that would come in to play here.

Discrimination based on race is protected at the Federal level and at the State level in all 50 states and the D.C.

What you remember is Starbucks apologizing for two black man being singled out because of their race.

What we have with Sarah Sanders is a public official that is taking taxpayer money being denied service based on the small business owners political beliefs. The small business owner committed no crime.

However, what Sarah Sanders has done with her Government Social Media account is borderline suppression of the 1st amendment. As a Government public official, she used a Government Twitter account to call out the business owner in an attempt to shame them for what they did to her.

This is a dangerous precedent to be set.

 

[Brent W]

Wrong. We have to agree on a system and then it has to go all ways. All ways.

If we want total, free market systems, anyone can refuse anyone for any reason. SHS can be refused, the gay couple can be refused, a black person can be refused, a white person can be refused. Anyone can be refused cause someone doesn't like the jeans you're wearing. Total free market; no restrictions.

We can go where almost no requests are refused. You own a bakery, you will bake a cake for anyone who walks in the door. You're Jewish, you will bake a cake for the Nazi rally. You're Muslim, you will bake a cake for the gay wedding too. Etc, etc, etc. If you agree on this system, a business owner is almost an indentured servant of the customer.

I take a middle position, where generally the free market should be allowed to operate with some boundaries. I do not believe people should be refused based on "who they are" but I believe some events should be able to be refused especially when there are deep religious objections or the request is obscene, etc. The Red Hen did not fall under this because SHS was simply eating a meal, as all humans do. It would be akin to a Christian restaurant owner refusing to serve a gay couple a simple meal. Which to my knowledge has not happened.

I am not wrong. This small business owner did nothing wrong under the free market system that exists today that we agree on. We have laws in place to protect people from it and none of those laws were broken.

That is why some Republicans and all Trump supporters are furious. Someone took advantage of the current system to exercise their first amendment rights against a public official and they don't like it because it is a public official they like.

 

[Brent W]

I actually don't like what this owner did. I cannot say they didn't have the right to deny service on the basis of their beleifs.

Whether you like it or not this small business owner did nothing wrong. What Sarah Sanders did with her power to that small business was infinitely worse.

 

[Brent W]

Oh ok...what was the reason she was asked to leave? I'm pretty sure she was a paying customer.

She is a public official and they didn't want her there. That is all the reason she needed. She exercised her freedom of speech against a public official. She did not ask the rest of the party to leave, just the public official whom she disagreed with and whom was causing issues at her place of business with her employees.

 

[Liza B.]

I actually don't like what this owner did. I cannot say they didn't have the right to deny service on the basis of their beleifs.

What beliefs? Political beliefs are not covered by the Constitution. Would love to see hard Leftists finally admit that their political beliefs ARE their religious beliefs, however.

 

[Liza B.]

She is a public official and they didn't want her there. That is all the reason she needed. She exercised her freedom of speech against a public official. She did not ask the rest of the party to leave, just the public official whom she disagreed with and whom was causing issues at her place of business with her employees.

I bet if Sarah Sanders wanted to, she'd have a nice little case there that would press all the way up to the Supreme Court. The owner was not very smart about this if you ask me, and doubly not smart saying she'd do the same thing all over again.

 

[Brent W]

What beliefs? Political beliefs are not covered by the Constitution. Would love to see hard Leftists finally admit that their political beliefs ARE their religious beliefs, however.

Why would you love to see that other than to make you sleep better at night? Why not discuss the issues instead of taking pot shots at groups of people you disagree with?

If the hard leftists suddenly saw the light, where would they move to? What would their label be to you then? What do you label yourself at? Are you in the "I'm always just on the perfect side of right"ist?

 

[Liza B.]

I am not wrong. This small business owner did nothing wrong under the free market system that exists today that we agree on. We have laws in place to protect people from it and none of those laws were broken.

That is why some Republicans and all Trump supporters are furious. Someone took advantage of the current system to exercise their first amendment rights against a public official and they don't like it because it is a public official they like.

Hold on. You don't get to kick someone out of your public accommodation establishment because "first amendment" if they are not causing a raucous. You might not LIKE that law if you are a libertarian, but that is definitely not a case you can make.

 

[Brent W]

I bet if Sarah Sanders wanted to, she'd have a nice little case there that would press all the way up to the Supreme Court. The owner was not very smart about this if you ask me, and doubly not smart saying she'd do the same thing all over again.

If she was smart she wouldn't have attacked a small business owner with a Government social media account. No laws were broken here by the small business owner.

Seemingly you seem smart enough to be able to give Sarah Sanders some advice so why not tweet it to her as seems very active: Sarah Sanders (@SarahHuckabee) | Twitter

 

[Brent W]

You don't get to kick someone out of your public accommodation establishment because "first amendment" if they are not causing a raucous

Yes you can. The fact that you just said this shows me you understand nothing about the law.

 

[Liza B.]

Why would you love to see that other than to make you sleep better at night? Why not discuss the issues instead of taking pot shots at groups of people you disagree with?

If the hard leftists suddenly saw the light, where would they move to? What would their label be to you then? What do you label yourself at? Are you in the "I'm always just on the perfect side of right"ist?

Hard Leftists are going to have to claim that their politics are their religion. They're been acting like Moral Puritans through identity politics for about ten years now, so this fits.

 

[Liza B.]

Yes you can. The fact that you just said this shows me you understand nothing about the law.

You can, but then SHS could claim she was discriminated against by the gay waiters because she is a Christian.

And you know what? She would have an excellent case. Really excellent.

 

[Liza B.]

If she was smart she wouldn't have attacked a small business owner with a Government social media account. No laws were broken here by the small business owner.

Seemingly you seem smart enough to be able to give Sarah Sanders some advice so why not tweet it to her as seems very active: Sarah Sanders (@SarahHuckabee) | Twitter

That is the way the free market works, in a pure free market. The business owner can kick out and we can talk about it. In fact, although I advocate the Christian bakers' rights to refuse to bake gay wedding cakes on religious grounds, I also completely advocate everyone's right to talk about and spread the word. That's the free market at work.

 

[Brent W]

You can, but then SHS could claim she was discriminated against by the gay waiters because she is a Christian.

And you know what? She would have an excellent case. Really excellent.

I look forward to it going to the Supreme Court. Until then, the only thing I see wrong here is a public official using a Government social media account to attack a small business owner.

I'd love to know your background on law that makes you so confident that Sarah Sanders could take this small business owner to court and have an "excellent case. Really excellent.".

Regardless, what we have here is a small business owner that broke no laws and has been attacked by a public official and that is terrifying.

 

[Liza B.]

I look forward to it going to the Supreme Court. Until then, the only thing I see wrong here is a public official using a Government social media account to attack a small business owner.

I'd love to know your background on law that makes you so confident that Sarah Sanders could take this small business owner to court and have an "excellent case. Really excellent.".

Regardless, what we have here is a small business owner that broke no laws and has been attacked by a public official and that is terrifying.

The gay waiter told everyone he was serving SS. The owner said she was making the gay waiters uncomfortable. It's no secret she's a strong Christian. I think a good lawyer could definitely make a case.

 

[Brent W]

That is the way the free market works, in a pure free market.

That's the free market at work.

Say this with me: We do not have a completely free market system.

We have a system that encourages economic growth based on free market principles but we also have protections in place to prevent discrimination and other regulations in place to prevent economic manipulation.

I have not once advocated for a completely free market system and never will. This is the only thing I have said about the free market system in this thread:

This small business owner did nothing wrong under the free market system that exists today that we agree on.

The free market system that we have today is one with checks and balances to protect both consumers and businesses. You know what? It worked perfectly today. A small business owner was able to deny service to a public official who is paid by taxpayers.

It was a great day.

 

[Brent W]

The gay waiter told everyone he was serving SS. The owner said she was making the gay waiters uncomfortable. It's no secret she's a strong Christian. I think a good lawyer could definitely make a case.

She was making the gay waiters feel uncomfortable because she is a public official that has gone on record against their lifestyle. Good luck finding a lawyer that is going to find religious discrimination based on the public statements of Sarah Sanders as a public official.