OSAS does not survive the "sola scriptura" test. Now what?

[justbyfaith]

IF keeping the commandments and doing work is the requirement of access to heaven..
who then will actually be in heaven????????

Those who are saved through faith alone in Jesus Christ; whose hearts have been changed, so that they are now inclined toward doing works of faith, hope, and love.

 

[amariselle]

IF keeping the commandments and doing work is the requirement of access to heaven..
who then will actually be in heaven????????

My thoughts exactly.

 

[GodsGrace101]

Scripture is clear, Israel did know of God’s promise of salvation and their coming Messiah. Jesus Himself confirmed this when He told the religious leaders that the Scriptures point to Him.

Everyone who has been or will ever be saved is saved the same way. There is no other Name.

If the above is true, what mystery is being spoken of in
Colossians 1:25-26?

 

[justbyfaith]

The gospel of Jesus Christ is concealed in the Old Testament and revealed in the New.

 

[amariselle]

If the above is true, what mystery is being spoken of in
Colossians 1:25-26?

The “mystery” of the Gospel was fully revealed in Christ and Jesus taught Paul this personally.

The OT contains types and shadows which all point to Christ and are fulfilled in Him.

 

[GodsGrace101]

New Testament doctrine on this is that those righteous who died before the Cross went to Abraham's bosom to wait for Jesus to descend into hell and lead them out of Abraham's bosom to their eternal home in heaven. He led captivity captive; and gave gifts to men. He descended and preached the gospel to them who were in Abraham's bosom; and those who believed He brought with Him when He resurrected and ascended.

Abraham's Bossom is not in hell.
Hell is hell.

Please read Luke 16:19-31 again.
There is a chasm between Abraham's Bossom and hell.
Luke 16:26

Also, those in Abraham's Bossom were already saved...Jesus did not have to preach to them again.

 

[GodsGrace101]

The “mystery” of the Gospel was fully revealed in Christ and Jesus taught Paul this personally.

The OT contains types and shadows which all point to Christ and are fulfilled in Him.

This is what you wrote:

Scripture is clear, Israel did know of God’s promise of salvation and their coming Messiah. Jesus Himself confirmed this when He told the religious leaders that the Scriptures point to Him.

Everyone who has been or will ever be saved is saved the same way. There is no other Name.

If Israel knew of God's promise of salvation,
What is the mystery spoken of in Colossians 1:25-26

You said Israel DID KNOW of the salvation promise...
so what was the mystery?

Just putting the word "mystery" in quotation marks does not answer the question...

 

[Major1]

I think I explained this last night but can't remember.

1 Corinthians 3:6-15
6I planted, Apollos watered, but God was causing the growth. 7So then neither the one who plants nor the one who waters is anything, but God who causes the growth.8Now he who plants and he who waters are one; but each will receive his own reward according to his own labor. 9For we are God’s fellow workers; you are God’s field, God’s building.

10According to the grace of God which was given to me, like a wise master builder I laid a foundation, and another is building on it. But each man must be careful how he builds on it. 11For no man can lay a foundation other than the one which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12Now if any man builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw, 13each man’s work will become evident; for the day will show it because it is to berevealed with fire, and the fire itself will test the quality of each man’s work.14If any man’s work which he has built on it remains, he will receive a reward.15If any man’s work is burned up, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.

The above is speaking about teachers. Are not those who teach new Christians, teachers?

In verse 2 Paul tells the Corinthians that he fed them spiritual milk because they are not ready for solid food. Does this not refer to Paul teaching the Cor. about being Christians since this was a new way for them?

Then he goes on to say how we each have our "job" to do...
One plants, one waters...

verse 8 says each laborer will receive his own reward.

Paul and the others are the workers (by teaching) and the Corint. are the field. verse 9

Paul laid a foundation,,,which is Christ.

Those who build on the foundation with gold and silver and stones...his work will be evident. verse 12

Those who build on the foundation with wood, hay and straw...his work will be evident. verse 12

verse 13: Each man's work will become evident for it is to be revealed with fire.

Those that work are the teachers...
The work is the teaching to the Corinthians and how well it is done.

The fire in verse 13 is referring to Jesus.

Of course Paul was the missionary and he certainly planted the church and Apolios came and watered his words.

But Verse 7 says that it does not matter WHO the teacher is. The only thing that matters is that Jesus Christ is being taught and lifted up and HE gets the glory not a man.
"So then NEITHER is he that planteth any thing neither is he that waters……….".

Verse 8....YES, every man can receive a reward! This is not about salvation but what we do to earn rewards after salvation.

Verse 9 tells us to not let us run away with the idea that, because here the Apostle is speaking in regard to himself and Apollos, he is enunciating a truth which applies only to Apostles and evangelists. It is true of all Christians. My knowledge of and faith in Jesus Christ as my own personal Saviour impose upon me the obligation, in so far as my opportunities and capacities extend, thus to co-operate with Him in spreading His great Name. Every Christian man, just because he is a Christian, is invested with the power-and power to its last particle is duty-and is, therefore, burdened with the honourable obligation to work for God.
1 Corinthians 3 MacLaren Expositions Of Holy Scripture

The “fire” IMO IS NOT JESUS but it will clearly distinguish genuine from phony. It is of the character of fire to part the destructible from the indestructible. There is no doubt that day will come.

There is no discipline in this testing. There is no punishment for the Christian at the Judgment Seat of Christ because Christ took all our judgment at the cross (Ro 8:1). The test is simply to distinguish what God can reward from what He cannot reward

The word “sort” indicates quality, not quantity. It is the nature of our work that counts, not the volume of our work. God will test everything we do in the light of His own standards.

What I am saying to you is that this passage is not solely about PAUL or teachers obtaining rewards but instead that Every believer will be able receive a "Reward" at the Judgment Seat of Christ.

 

[Major1]

This is what you wrote:

Scripture is clear, Israel did know of God’s promise of salvation and their coming Messiah. Jesus Himself confirmed this when He told the religious leaders that the Scriptures point to Him.

Everyone who has been or will ever be saved is saved the same way. There is no other Name.

If Israel knew of God's promise of salvation,
What is the mystery spoken of in Colossians 1:25-26

You said Israel DID KNOW of the salvation promise...
so what was the mystery?

Just putting the word "mystery" in quotation marks does not answer the question...

The "Mystery" was that God would now put Israel on the same basis as the Gentiles.

All men are LOST. All men have sinned. ALL men have come short of the approval of God.

Now God says, men of ll races are going to be put into a new body which is called "THE CHURCH".

 

[GodsGrace101]

IF keeping the commandments and doing work is the requirement of access to heaven..
who then will actually be in heaven????????

Here we go again.
Read what you wrote above.
What you're saying is that it is NOT NECESSARY to keep the commandments of God and do good works to get into heaven.

How could YOU and some other posters here not realize this?

You and the others do know and state that the N.T. writers wrote to born again believers...

So, here is what they say to born again believers.


Leviticus 22:31
"So you shall keep My commandments, and do them; I am the LORD.


Mathew 19:17-19
And He said to him, "Why are you asking Me about what is good? There is only One who is good; but if you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments." Then he said to Him, "Which ones?" And Jesus said, "YOU SHALL NOT COMMIT MURDER; YOU SHALL NOT COMMIT ADULTERY; YOU SHALL NOT STEAL; YOU SHALL NOT BEAR FALSE WITNESS; HONOR YOUR FATHER AND MOTHER; and YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF."

1 Corinthians 7:19
Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but what matters is the keeping of the commandments of God.

Luke 11:28
But He said, "On the contrary, blessed are those who hear the word of God and observe it."


1 Timothy 6:14
that you keep the commandment without stain or reproach until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ,

 

[Major1]

Abraham's Bossom is not in hell.
Hell is hell.

Please read Luke 16:19-31 again.
There is a chasm between Abraham's Bossom and hell.
Luke 16:26

Also, those in Abraham's Bossom were already saved...Jesus did not have to preach to them again.

SHEOL is the Hebrew for Hell.

Deuteronomy 32:22...…..
“For a fire is kindled in mine anger, and shall burn unto the lowest hell, and shall consume the earth with her increase, and set on fire the foundations of the mountains.”

Hades is the New Testament Greek word for the Old Testament Hebrew word Sheol.

In that place there are TWO compartments. They are separated by a "Chasm".

1. Torments. This is the place where ALL the lost are from Cain to the end of Revelation 20.

2. Paradise or Abraham's Bosom.

Luke 16:22-26...…….
"The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham's side. The rich man also died and was buried. In Hades, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side. So he called to him, 'Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.' "But Abraham replied, 'Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted here and you are in agony. And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been set in place, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us".

Then you are correct in that Jesus did not preah to those in Paradise but to those in Torments.

Then He took the saints in Paradise with Him when he ascended to heaven.

Ephesians 4:8-10...….
Therefore He says: “When He ascended on high, He led captivity captive, And gave gifts to men.” (Now this, “He ascended”; what does it mean but that He also first descended into the lower parts of the earth? He who descended is also the One who ascended far above all the heavens, that He might fill all things.)

 

[GodsGrace101]

Of course Paul was the missionary and he certainly planted the church and Apolios came and watered his words.

But Verse 7 says that it does not matter WHO the teacher is. The only thing that matters is that Jesus Christ is being taught and lifted up and HE gets the glory not a man.
"So then NEITHER is he that planteth any thing neither is he that waters……….".

Verse 8....YES, every man can receive a reward! This is not about salvation but what we do to earn rewards after salvation.

Verse 9 tells us to not let us run away with the idea that, because here the Apostle is speaking in regard to himself and Apollos, he is enunciating a truth which applies only to Apostles and evangelists. It is true of all Christians. My knowledge of and faith in Jesus Christ as my own personal Saviour impose upon me the obligation, in so far as my opportunities and capacities extend, thus to co-operate with Him in spreading His great Name. Every Christian man, just because he is a Christian, is invested with the power-and power to its last particle is duty-and is, therefore, burdened with the honourable obligation to work for God.
1 Corinthians 3 MacLaren Expositions Of Holy Scripture

The “fire” IMO IS NOT JESUS but it will clearly distinguish genuine from phony. It is of the character of fire to part the destructible from the indestructible. There is no doubt that day will come.

There is no discipline in this testing. There is no punishment for the Christian at the Judgment Seat of Christ because Christ took all our judgment at the cross (Ro 8:1). The test is simply to distinguish what God can reward from what He cannot reward

The word “sort” indicates quality, not quantity. It is the nature of our work that counts, not the volume of our work. God will test everything we do in the light of His own standards.

What I am saying to you is that this passage is not solely about PAUL or teachers obtaining rewards but instead that Every believer will be able receive a "Reward" at the Judgment Seat of Christ.

You're too concentrated on salvation and rewards.
It's not speaking to that at all.

 

[Major1]

Here we go again.
Read what you wrote above.
What you're saying is that it is NOT NECESSARY to keep the commandments of God and do good works to get into heaven.

How could YOU and some other posters here not realize this?

You and the others do know and state that the N.T. writers wrote to born again believers...

So, here is what they say to born again believers.


Leviticus 22:31
"So you shall keep My commandments, and do them; I am the LORD.


Mathew 19:17-19
And He said to him, "Why are you asking Me about what is good? There is only One who is good; but if you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments." Then he said to Him, "Which ones?" And Jesus said, "YOU SHALL NOT COMMIT MURDER; YOU SHALL NOT COMMIT ADULTERY; YOU SHALL NOT STEAL; YOU SHALL NOT BEAR FALSE WITNESS; HONOR YOUR FATHER AND MOTHER; and YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF."

1 Corinthians 7:19
Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but what matters is the keeping of the commandments of God.

Luke 11:28
But He said, "On the contrary, blessed are those who hear the word of God and observe it."


1 Timothy 6:14
that you keep the commandment without stain or reproach until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ,

YES! YOU ARE CORRECT!

I am saying that works are NOT necessary for salvation in order to get to heaven. I am not the ONE saying that sister. I am only repeating what God said.

Eph. 2:8-9 - "For BY GRACE are ye SAVED THROUGH FAITH; and that NOT OF
YOURSELVES: it is the GIFT of God: NOT OF WORKS, lest any man should boast."

2. Rom. 4:6-7 - God imputes "Righteousness without works."

3. Rom. 10:3 - It's a grave mistake for anyone to try to, "Establish their own righteousness."

4. Rom. 5:17 - Heaven deserving righteousness is a "GIFT," not something you earn.

5. Rom. 5:18 - Justification to God is a "FREE GIFT," not something you work toward.

6. Phil. 3:9 - Paul, as ‘good’ as he was, still wouldn't trust his "Own righteousness" to save him.

7. Rom. 3:22 - God's righteousness is credited to "ALL THEM THAT BELIEVE," not all that work.

8. Rom. 8:3-4 - The flesh is too "Weak" to save itself. We need a Saviour. We need Christ.

9. Rom. 4:3 - Abraham's faith, not works, "Was counted unto him for righteousness."

10. Rom. 4:4-5 - Works are "Not reckoned of grace, but of debt." Faith is counted as righteousness.

11. Gal. 3:10 - To earn Heaven you'd have to "Continueth," perfectly, in the whole law.

12. Titus 3:5 - "NOT BY WORKS OF RIGHTEOUSNESS which we have done, but according to
his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost."

13. John 5:24 - In Christ we've "PASSED from death unto life." We don't have to "wait" to find out.

14. Rom. 9:31-32 - Israel, "Sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law." (

15. Acts 4:12 - No other name but Christ can save us-- not the name of works, nor our own name.

16. John 1:12-13 - Only God's power, through His Son, makes us a child of God. We are not born into
God's family by "Blood" (heritage, family ‘pedigree’), "Nor will of the flesh" (good works), "Nor will
of man." (minister, or man made religion), "But of God."

17. Isa. 45:22 - No one else can save a soul from Hell but God; "There is none else."

18. Acts 13:39 - "And by him [Christ] all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye
COULD NOT BE JUSTIFIED by the law of Moses."

19. Rom. 8:7 - We can't follow God's law even if we wanted to. So how can we save ourselves?

20. Matthew 7:21-23 - Christ describes a future scene in which some who are trusting in their "Many
wonderful works," will, sadly, be told by Christ: "I never knew you: depart from me, Ye that work

 

[GodsGrace101]

The "Mystery" was that God would now put Israel on the same basis as the Gentiles.

All men are LOST. All men have sinned. ALL men have come short of the approval of God.

Now God says, men of ll races are going to be put into a new body which is called "THE CHURCH".

I'm not sure about the first sentence, but the last sentence goes to the idea. Also, the mystery is the New Covenant and God's grace in saving men.

 

[GodsGrace101]

YES! YOU ARE CORRECT!

I am saying that works are NOT necessary for salvation in order to get to heaven. I am not the ONE saying that sister. I am only repeating what God said.

Eph. 2:8-9 - "For BY GRACE are ye SAVED THROUGH FAITH; and that NOT OF
YOURSELVES: it is the GIFT of God: NOT OF WORKS, lest any man should boast."

2. Rom. 4:6-7 - God imputes "Righteousness without works."

3. Rom. 10:3 - It's a grave mistake for anyone to try to, "Establish their own righteousness."

4. Rom. 5:17 - Heaven deserving righteousness is a "GIFT," not something you earn.

5. Rom. 5:18 - Justification to God is a "FREE GIFT," not something you work toward.

6. Phil. 3:9 - Paul, as ‘good’ as he was, still wouldn't trust his "Own righteousness" to save him.

7. Rom. 3:22 - God's righteousness is credited to "ALL THEM THAT BELIEVE," not all that work.

8. Rom. 8:3-4 - The flesh is too "Weak" to save itself. We need a Saviour. We need Christ.

9. Rom. 4:3 - Abraham's faith, not works, "Was counted unto him for righteousness."

10. Rom. 4:4-5 - Works are "Not reckoned of grace, but of debt." Faith is counted as righteousness.

11. Gal. 3:10 - To earn Heaven you'd have to "Continueth," perfectly, in the whole law.

12. Titus 3:5 - "NOT BY WORKS OF RIGHTEOUSNESS which we have done, but according to
his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost."

13. John 5:24 - In Christ we've "PASSED from death unto life." We don't have to "wait" to find out.

14. Rom. 9:31-32 - Israel, "Sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law." (

15. Acts 4:12 - No other name but Christ can save us-- not the name of works, nor our own name.

16. John 1:12-13 - Only God's power, through His Son, makes us a child of God. We are not born into
God's family by "Blood" (heritage, family ‘pedigree’), "Nor will of the flesh" (good works), "Nor will
of man." (minister, or man made religion), "But of God."

17. Isa. 45:22 - No one else can save a soul from Hell but God; "There is none else."

18. Acts 13:39 - "And by him [Christ] all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye
COULD NOT BE JUSTIFIED by the law of Moses."

19. Rom. 8:7 - We can't follow God's law even if we wanted to. So how can we save ourselves?

20. Matthew 7:21-23 - Christ describes a future scene in which some who are trusting in their "Many
wonderful works," will, sadly, be told by Christ: "I never knew you: depart from me, Ye that work

A small amount of intellectual honesty would surely be appreciated...by God.

So, according to you, all those verses I posted, and there are plenty more, are lies that the bible teaches us?

Is this what you're saying??

 

[amariselle]

This is what you wrote:

Scripture is clear, Israel did know of God’s promise of salvation and their coming Messiah. Jesus Himself confirmed this when He told the religious leaders that the Scriptures point to Him.

Everyone who has been or will ever be saved is saved the same way. There is no other Name.

If Israel knew of God's promise of salvation,
What is the mystery spoken of in Colossians 1:25-26

You said Israel DID KNOW of the salvation promise...
so what was the mystery?

Just putting the word "mystery" in quotation marks does not answer the question...

Since my answer was unsatisfactory, I'll just let Scripture speak for itself:

Luke 24 (Jesus teaching on the road to Emmaus):
25 Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken:
26 Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory?
27 And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.

Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me. - John 5:39

Galatians 3:
6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.
7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.
8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.
9 So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.

1 Peter 1:
10 Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you:
11 Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.
12 Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven; which things the angels desire to look into.

I encourage you to do a study regarding all of the OT prophecies fulfilled by Christ. The OT Jews most definitely had the message of the coming Messiah, it simply had not yet been fulfilled in its fullness. Just as we have the message concerning the "last days" and Jesus' return, but it has yet to come to pass.

 

[BobRyan]

This is what you wrote:

Scripture is clear, Israel did know of God’s promise of salvation and their coming Messiah. Jesus Himself confirmed this when He told the religious leaders that the Scriptures point to Him.

Everyone who has been or will ever be saved is saved the same way. There is no other Name.

If Israel knew of God's promise of salvation,
What is the mystery spoken of in Colossians 1:25-26

You said Israel DID KNOW of the salvation promise...
so what was the mystery?

Just putting the word "mystery" in quotation marks does not answer the question...

"The Gospel was preached to us just as it was to them also" Heb 4:1
"The Gospel was preached to Abraham" Gal 3:8
"Salvation is of the Jews" John 4

John 3 Christ tells Nicodemus that as a Bible teacher in Israel he should already know about the new birth and Holy Spirit.

But "Israel" at the time of Christ rejected the Messiah.

That is not because they were not told about the Messiah, it is because of rebllion.

 

[BobRyan]

I would say also that according to Paul, the law is a schoolmaster to lead men to Christ. See Galatians 3:24-25, Romans 3:20, and Psalms 19:7. And therefore, for the unbeliever, attempting to earn salvation through obedience to the law is perfectly capable of having the effect of bringing that person to the end of themselves, the moment that they begin to understand that they simply cannot do it in their own strength; and that the first step to gaining power over sin is to be forgiven.

True "when faith comes" the lost person is released from condemnation of the law and now the "Law is written on the heart" under the New Covenant.

 

[BobRyan]

Matthew 7 -

good trees --> good fruit
bad trees --> bad fruit

Some OSAS arguments are "bad fruit --> reward" is heaven

 

[GodsGrace101]

"The Gospel was preached to us just as it was to them also" Heb 4:1
"The Gospel was preached to Abraham" Gal 3:8
"Salvation is of the Jews" John 4

John 3 Christ tells Nicodemus that as a Bible teacher in Israel he should already know about the new birth and Holy Spirit.

But "Israel" at the time of Christ rejected the Messiah.

That is not because they were not told about the Messiah, it is because of rebllion.

Well, if all was already told, as you and another post believe,,,then WHAT WAS THE MYSTERY?

You don't really need to answer since it's apparent only @Major1 seems to know it.