What Was God’s Intention For The Atonement?

[fhansen]

If God changes my will to want to repent, is my will no longer involved?

Once God begins controlling and changing rather than drawing, encouraging, informing, then our wills are no longer free for all practical purposes. We may not be able to say "yes" without His help, but we can still always say "no" even then.

 

[Job3315]

Why did he not intend to actually save anyone?

Free will. God doesn’t force salvation on us, although, the Bible does say there are some Jews who will be saved, but He is letting the gentles enter first. He loves the Jews.

Lucifer had free will in heaven but he chose to steal God’ glory. Even the angels had a free will since a 1/4 of them joined satan. God wants us to decide who we want; our creator or the liar.

 

[Tree of Life]

Once God begins controlling and changing rather than drawing, encouraging, informing, then our wills are no longer free for all practical purposes. We may not be able to say "yes" without His help, but we can still always say "no" even then.

Where do you get such a notion of free will?

 

[Tree of Life]

Free will. God doesn’t force salvation on us, although, the Bible does say there are some Jews who will be saved, but He is letting the gentles enter first. He loves the Jews.

Lucifer had free will in heaven but he chose to steal God’ glory. Even the angels had a free will since a 1/4 of them joined satan. God wants us to decide who we want; our creator or the liar.

Calvinists don’t believe that God forces anyone to be saved against their wills. All who are saved come to Christ willingly. And yet Jesus died to actually save these people and to purchase the Holy Spirit for them to change their hearts.

Where do you get your notion of free will from?

 

[Philip_B]

So God intended to save all. Did he fail?

Firstly, it is far above my pay grade to give God a fail grade for anything.

What I do think is that if you want to ask the question posed in this thread, that the Johannine Gospel presents some challenges. John 3:16 does not say that God love some of us so much, but all of us. Th only option seems to be that God does not force us, (and OK I get that Calvinists have a different spin on it with the double predestination thing). The Incarnation suggests that God shares with us in this life that leads to death, that we might share with him in the life that leads from death.

 

[Tree of Life]

Firstly, it is far above my pay grade to give God a fail grade for anything.

What I do think is that if you want to ask the question posed in this thread, that the Johannine Gospel presents some challenges. John 3:16 does not say that God love some of us so much, but all of us. Th only option seems to be that God does not force us, (and OK I get that Calvinists have a different spin on it with the double predestination thing). The Incarnation suggests that God shares with us in this life that leads to death, that we might share with him in the life that leads from death.

In true Anglican fashion, this doesn’t really clarify anything.

 

[Philip_B]

In true Anglican fashion, this doesn’t really clarify anything.

The Peace of the Lord be always with you.

 

[fhansen]

Calvinists don’t believe that God forces anyone to be saved against their wills. All who are saved come to Christ willingly. And yet Jesus died to actually save these people and to purchase the Holy Spirit for them to change their hearts.

Where do you get your notion of free will from?

I live it everyday. Plus the Church teaches it and it aligns with Scripture.

 

[Tree of Life]

I live it everyday. Plus the Church teaches it and it aligns with Scripture.

Where in Scripture is this understanding of free will taught?

 

[fhansen]

Where in Scripture is this understanding of free will taught?

Everywhere it admonishes believers to obey, whether by being perfect, being holy, feeding the hungry, clothing the naked, being vigilant, investing ones talents, remaining faithful, remaining in Christ, refraining from sin, persevering, striving, etc, generally with loss of place in the kingdom at stake.

 

[Oloyedelove]

His work was once for "all." I take that as not only all people, but all of creation (see Romans 8:22). I am not a universalist per se, but I do believe the work was for "all who will receive."

If the father does this to people, tell me just one reason he won't do it for all.

 

[Oloyedelove]

If I’m not mistaken eternal security teaches that once someone is saved they cannot lose their salvation. Basically OSAS.

Calvin's teaching majors on the fact if you believe in Christ and live as the scripture is expected and eventually got saved when Christ comes, it means you've been chosen to it before you even believed at all.

 

[Philip_B]

This question was asked in a different way in a show I saw recently on Netflix - The Shack - I didn't love the movie, however the approach to the question was quite thought provoking. It provoked my son enough to ask me to watch it so we could have a talk about it.

 

[Oloyedelove]

Not for me... I know what they believe. You were the one who tried to align me to a group whose theology I don't hold to. I was simply saying that I am neither.

Pls I just would love to learn. How did you strike a compromise between the doctrine of free will and predestination?

 

[Oloyedelove]

If God changes my will to want to repent, is my will no longer involved?

The major issue I have with Calvin's doctrine is this. If God changes my own will to repent and he succeeded, then why is God not doing the same for all men, knowing fully well he wants ALL to be saved.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

The major issue I have with Calvin's doctrine is this. If God changes my own will to repent and he succeeded, then why is God not doing the same for all men, knowing fully well he wants ALL to be saved.

Thankfully, no one is required to ever think of Calvin's doctrine on this or on anything from or of Calvin.
If someone was once subject to it, Yahweh knows how to set them free, without talking about it, debating it and without ever studying it.

 

[Micah888]

When God purposed that Jesus would die on the cross, what was his intention?

To make it possible for all people to be saved. This is the biblical answer and Arminianism or any other -ism has nothing to do with it.

The Bible makes it crystal clear that Christ was the Lamb of God who would take away the sins of the WORLD.

The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world... Again the next day after John stood, and two of his disciples; And looking upon Jesus as he walked, he saith, Behold the Lamb of God! (John 1:29,35,36).

This is both logically and theologically correct, since there is none righteous, no not one, all have sinned and come short of the glory of God, all need to be saved by grace (and God desires that all men should be saved, and come unto the knowledge of the truth), all are commanded everywhere to repent, all -- every creature -- are to hear the Gospel, and all are to come to Christ for salvation bar none.

Thus we have the most famous Gospel verse, backed up by another not so famous verse:

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. (John 3:16,17).

 

[nonaeroterraqueous]

To make it possible for all people to be saved

Of course, you know that would be utter nonsense. Possibilities belong to human ignorance. It ranks with the human concept of randomness. For an omniscient being things are either true or false. Either a thing is true for some thing in some place at some time, or it is not. I can be missed by a bullet by mere inches and think that I might have possibly been shot, but once the thing is known and the bullet has missed the mark there is no possibility about it. It is simply false that the bullet could hit me. When one recognizes that God sees the future in much the same way that we see the past, then one realizes that there is no room for mere possibilities. God did not cover his eyes, nail Christ to the cross and then fantasize about possibilities, as if he did not already know exactly what would become of it. Universal salvation, as heretical as it may be, has a far firmer grasp on sanity than this sorry excuse for soteriology.

 

[Micah888]

Why did he not intend to actually save anyone?

God intended to save all of humanity, therefore Christ "tasted death for every man" (Heb 2:9).

At the same time, God has stipulated TWO CONDITIONS which are applicable to all sinners: (1) repentance toward God and (2) faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ (Acts 20:21).

Therefore the Gospel must be preached in all the world and to every creature, so that all will obey the Gospel, And only those who obey the Gospel are saved. This rules out Universalism.

But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report? (Rom 10:16).

 

[JoeP222w]

When God purposed that Jesus would die on the cross, what was his intention?

Options in the poll:

1. To actually save all people - This is universalism. God intended for the cross of Christ to affect the salvation of all people, regardless of whether or not they repent in this life.
2. To make it possible for all people to be saved - Arminianism. God did not intend to actually save anyone. He merely intended to make it possible for anyone who believes in Jesus to be saved.
3. To actually save some people - At the cross God intended to actually save a group of people known as the elect. This is Calvinism.

Discuss.

First and foremost, to glorify God.
Secondly, to effectively and sufficiently save His elect people. We do not know the identity of the elect. This is not only Calvinism, this is Biblical.