Eternal Security - Is the Gospel

[Call me Nic]

Justification is by faith, for the Just shall live by faith.

According to the Greek word used for faith it would read like this.

Justification is by believing, being faithful, and having fidelity, loyalty, and devotion.

So according to faith along I could be a murderer, liar, immoral, and worship idols and even satan himself and as long as I believe in Jesus Christ as my Lord and Savior I will still be saved? I will be punished in this world but I’d still make into heaven. That’s a HUGE path to heaven. It’s GIGANTIC actually and I can’t think of any way it could possibly be any bigger unless absolutely nothing was required to get into heaven.

James 2:10. Adultery is equal to the punishment of murder, lying is equal to the punishment of idolatry (Revelation 21:8). All those are sins that lead to hell.

David murdered and committed adultery and was still saved. Saul murdered 85 prophets of God and went to the same place Samuel (who was saved) did, meaning Saul was saved.

It's still the same narrow path to heaven, because Jesus Christ is the path to heaven - eternal life only comes through faith in his name.

And by the way, your "faith means this in greek" argument doesn't pan out; because believing is trusting in the Lord Jesus Christ: you either believe/trust or you don't. To believe is to have faith, and to have faith is to trust. Paul uses the word "trust" and "believe" interchangeably in Ephesians 1:13, when he talks about salvation. So according to what the Bible says, to have faith is to trust Christ and to believe on him as Savior, which is the same as having devotion to the Gospel - when you believe the truth and believe the Gospel, you ARE obeying it: to obey the Gospel is to obey the will of God, and to obey the will of God is to believe in the Lord Jesus Christ. It's really that simple.

To obey the commandments contained in ordinances (that is, to stop sinning), means you are obeying the law. But what are we not under? The law. So what must we obey? The Gospel according to grace. And how do we obey that? Faith. Do you not see the clarity of scripture?

 

[Doug Melven]

Why don't you post what you believe Jesus did NOT say in
John 3:20???
Jesus said EVERYTHING in John 3:20
He said that those who do evil HATE THE LIGHT.
JESUS IS THE LIGHT.
If we return to a life of evil, we hate the light.
Since Jesus is the light, we, in effect, hate HIM.

Do you deny that those who do evil do not hate God?
Do they love God??

I don't believe believers hate God.
And whatever happened to the main clause of the New Covenant?
I will be merciful to there unrighteousness and there sins and there lawless deeds I will remember no more
What about what David said in Psalm 32 and quoted by Paul in Romans 4?
Blessed is the man to whom the LORD shall not impute sin.
Do you think as a believer that you live a perfect life without ever sinning?
I know you say that you repent as soon as you know about it.
So while God is waiting for you to repent how is it that you keep your salvation? Because if it is lost as you guys claim it can, you can't get it back, it is impossible.

 

[LoveofTruth]

So, it means "also"
I could speak to you as a Christian, even as a believer.
I could speak to you as a Christian, also as a believer.
Either way I am still speaking to you.

No, he is speaking of two different kinds of people the carnal ( fleshly, unregenerate ) one’s which is what the Greek points to and the other group babes in Christ. Who are still spiritual in some respect and perfect as they abide in Christ and are sanctified. . But to be carnally minded is death the carnal mind is not the mind of Christ that believers have as Paul said just before chapter 3. The carnal mind is the freshly mind and in the flesh they cannot please God and so they have not faith in this state for without faith it is impossible to please God. The carnal man walks as men not as a believer

You need to study to shew thyself aporived unto God rightly dividing the word of truth.

We read about “also” showing two different groups one lost and one saved

John 6 - 66. From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him. 67. Then said Jesus unto the twelve, Will ye also go away?

You realize Paul said this of himself in Romans 7:14?
This whole chapter is about a saved person trying his best to please God by keeping the law.

You realize don’t you that that is not about a saved man. Paul is rehearsing his time as a child vs9 and on through his attempts as a fallen man in carnality sold under sin. This is not the talk of a victorious man . Paul sums up his talk by saying

“ Romans 7 - 24. O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? “

Then he says it is through Christ.

Paul was speaking of his time in the flesh and carnality without Christ he would not say who shall deliver me if he already knew. And he does know now it is through Jesus Christ. Paul was not sold under sin or carnal as a believer he was free in Christ not in bondage

In chapter 8 he even says

“ Romans 8 - 7. Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. 8. So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God. 9. But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.”

You are very wrong here and need to study.

If you try to understand scripture with your own mind and not the mind of Christ you cannot see it.

And as far as Hebrews 10 speaks of “if we sin wilfully” the we includes the writer of the book as well and he is a believer.

 

[FreeGrace2]

FreeGrace2 said: ↑
The aorist tense is used as well for coming, believing, eating, etc.

Part 2

The Greek tenses here can be argued

No they can't. They are FACT.

but they do not help with the case you are making.

They do help, but you're just ignoring the FACTS.

Clearly faith, belief, abiding is a daily thing that must be continued in.

But not to continue to be saved, but in order to abide in Christ, which means to be in fellowship, which is the only state that a believer can bear fruit.

 

[BNR32FAN]

James 2:10. Adultery is equal to the punishment of murder, lying is equal to the punishment of idolatry (Revelation 21:8). All those are sins that lead to hell.

David murdered and committed adultery and was still saved. Saul murdered 85 prophets of God and went to the same place Samuel (who was saved) did, meaning Saul was saved.

It's still the same narrow path to heaven, because Jesus Christ is the path to heaven - eternal life only comes through faith in his name.

And by the way, your "faith means this in greek" argument doesn't pan out; because believing is trusting in the Lord Jesus Christ: you either believe/trust or you don't. To believe is to have faith, and to have faith is to trust. Paul uses the word "trust" and "believe" interchangeably in Ephesians 1:13, when he talks about salvation. So according to what the Bible says, to have faith is to trust Christ and to believe on him as Savior, which is the same as having devotion to the Gospel - when you believe the truth and believe the Gospel, you ARE obeying it: to obey the Gospel is to obey the will of God, and to obey the will of God is to believe in the Lord Jesus Christ. It's really that simple.

To obey the commandments contained in ordinances (that is, to stop sinning), means you are obeying the law. But what are we not under? The law. So what must we obey? The Gospel according to grace. And how do we obey that? Faith. Do you not see the clarity of scripture?

I’m not the one who defined the word pistis that was done thousands of years before me. David and Paul repented of their sin and were born again. They both were walking in the Spirit after their sins. I didn’t say anything about repenting from sin and being born again in the example I gave. According to the doctrine of faith alone these aren’t necessary for salvation.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Part 3


I am just quoting Jesus and the clear words he said, here they are again as I have shown many times.

So have I. And Jesus said recipients of eternal life (saved people) shall never perish in John 10:28.

And He didn't add any condtions for recipients to meet in order to not perish.

But you DO.

But for some reason you cannot see this.

No, you're the one not seeing your own problem which is not believing what Jesus said in John 10:28.

Or you will not, not sure. You said you would never change your belief no matter what (or something like that).

My beliefs come directly from Scripture.

 

[FreeGrace2]

FreeGrace2 said: ↑
I've already responded to this, but repetition can't hurt, and may, in fact, help.

The verse is clear; instead of any warning about grieving the Spirit, Paul reminds believers who grieve the Spirit that they ARE SEALED with the Spirit, and the purpose of being sealed: for the day of redemption.

Sure doesn't sound like going to hell to me.

To what verse are you referring?

Eph 4:30, the verse you asked me to explain.

What does 1 Timothy 4:1 mean to you?
What does it mean to fall away from the faith?

It means to cease to believe.

What about 1 Timothy 4:8-10?
On the other hand, discipline yourself for the purpose of godliness; 8for bodily discipline is only of little profit, but godliness is profitable for all things, since it holds promise for the present life and alsofor the life to come. 9It is a trustworthy statement deserving full acceptance.10For it is for this we labor and strive, because we have fixed our hope on the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of believers.
NASB

v.8 speaks of blessings in time (present life) and rewards in eternity (the life to come). That's what "godliness is profitable for all things" refers to.

According to you, what exactly are we saved for?

Let's just focus and believe what the Bible says about this:
Eph 2:10 - For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.

Do I need to explain this?

As to grieving the Holy Spirit...please answer...do you understand this to mean one time or continuous grieving?

It should be obvious, I think, that a believer could grieve the Spirit, then realize what they've done, confess it (1 John 1:9), but then do it again. Like any sin.

 

[GodsGrace101]

This is STILL confused. The Greek word for "pisteou" doesn't include what you are doing, but what you are trusting IN. When you "believe in Jesus", are you trusting in what you are doing FOR HIM to get to heaven?

Well, I've got some bad news for you. The crowd in Matt 7:21-23 thought exactly that. In fact, they were betting what they were doing for Jesus to get into the kingdom. And we know how that "worked out" for them. Not well.


Are you really saying this is what is required for salvation?


Please just answer my question above:
When you believe in Jesus, are you trusting in what you are doing FOR HIM to get to heaven?


Absolutely no argument. But please note that the verse doesn't say saved people WILL do good works. It DOES say those created in Christ were FOR good works.

I don't think you see the difference.


Yes, there are. And NONE of them are warnings for believers do DO SOMETHING in order to not perish.

Don't you realize that if that were true, then what Jesus said in John 10:28 CANNOT be true?


I challenge (dare) you to quote just one verse that warns believers of how to not perish.

otoh, John 10:28 is a promise that those given eternal life shall NEVER PERISH.

See how your view is in direct opposition to the words of Jesus? And you're comfortable with that???!!!


Those who have believed in Jesus Christ for salvation have been given eternal life (Jn 3:16, 5:24, 6;47, 10:28) and they SHALL NEVER PERISH. John 10:28

But again, your claims are in direct opposition to the Savior's. Not good.


The context for these 2 verses includes 4 verses before that:
v.24 - “Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life.

Here, Jesus mentions 3 things for those who believe in Him:
1. they HAVE (possess) eternal life.
2. they WILL NOT BE JUDGED. This is the same thing as John 10:28.
3. they HAVE PASSED from death to life.

This is a guarantee of eternal security.


This is an abuse of the Greek present tense. No Greek grammar text says that the results of a present tense action are dependent upon the action being continual out into the future.

Please get your facts straight.


This is a statement that applies to those who HAVE believed and are saved, and those who HAVE NOT believed, and are unsaved.

Discernment, sister.


Yes the are, and I've proved it.


See above about abusing the Greek present tense.

Your claim is a FALLACY.


Please back this up with Scripture. The Greek present tense NOT ever mean this.


This is from an intermediate Greek grammar text by Daniel Wallace: Greek Grammar: Beyond the Basics.

"Under "narrow-band presents:
"The action is portaryed as being in progress, or as occurring. In the indicative mood, it is portrayed as occurring in the present time (right now), that is, at the time of speaking." p.516

On p.517, under "instantaneous present (aka aoristic or punctiiar present):
The present tense may be used to indicate that an action is completed at the moment of speaking. This occurs only in the indicative. It is relatively common."

Then a clarification is given:
"When 'say", "promise", opr "tell" introduces an utterance, the time frame of the introductory verb is concluded once the utterance is over."

There is a "progressive present" on p.518:
"The present tense may be used to describe a scene in progress, especially in narrative literature. It represents a somewhat borader time frame the the instantaneous present, though it is still narrow when compared to a customary or gnomic present. The difference between this and the iterative (and customary) present is that the latter involves a repeated action, while the progressive present normally involves continuous action."

However, this "continuous action" is action occurring right now, or in the present time, relative to the time of the speaker.


There is no support for your well meaning claim.

[UOTE]As for Greek lexicons and the such.
You're right, I don't consult them.

That's quite obvious


That's why Paul told Timothy to "study to show yourself approved of God, a workman that needs not to be ashamed, but rightly dividing the word of truth.

Studying is NOT easy. But it's necessary to know the truth.

But, thanks for at least admitting your proclivity.


It is not easy, but whoever told you that was just pulling your leg.[/QUOTE]
You're very good at telling me I'm wrong but very bad at replying to my verses, of which there are many in direct opposition to what you believe.

As to the aorist tense, it has more to do with action than time.
aorist
/ˈeɪərɪst; ˈɛərɪst/
noun
1.
(grammar) a tense of the verb in classicalGreek and in certain other inflected languages,indicating past action without reference towhether the action involved was momentary orcontinuous Compare perfect (sense 8),imperfect (sense 4)

As you can see, this goes against the belief of all those who think something happened in the past (as if the aorist tense had to do with time instead of action) and then CONTINUES into the future.

In the Ancient Greek, the indicative aorist is one of the two main forms used in telling a story; it is used for undivided events, such as the individual steps in a continuous process (narrative aorist); it is also used for events that took place before the story itself (past-within-past). The aorist indicative is also used to express things that happen in general, without asserting a time (the "gnomic aorist"). It can also be used of present and future events; the aorist also has several specialized senses meaning present action.

Non-indicative forms of the aorist (subjunctives, optatives, imperatives, infinitives) are usually purely aspectual, with certain exceptions including indirect speech constructions and the use of optative as part of the sequence of tenses in dependent clauses. There are aorist infinitives and imperatives that do not imply temporality at all. For example, the Lord's Prayer in Matthew 6:11 uses the aorist imperative in "Give (δός dós) us this day our daily bread", in contrast to the analogous passage in Luke 11:3, which uses the imperfective aspect, implying repetition, with "Give (δίδου dídou, present imperative) us day by day our daily bread."

An example of how the aorist tense contrasts with the imperfect in describing the past occurs in Xenophon's Anabasis, when the Persian aristocrat Orontas is executed: "and those who had been previously in the habit of bowing (προσεκύνουν prosekúnoun, imperfect) to him, bowed (προσεκύνησαν prosekúnēsan, aorist) to him even then." Here the imperfect refers to a past habitual or repeated act, and the aorist to a single one.

There is disagreement as to which functions of the Greek aorist are inherent within it. Many authors hold that the aorist tends to be about the past because it is perfective, and perfectives tend to describe completed actions; others that it is essentially a mixture of past tense and perfective aspect.

Hermeneutic implications

Because the aorist was not maintained in either Latin or the Germanic languages, there have long been difficulties in translating the Greek New Testament into Western languages. The aorist has often been interpreted as making a strong statement about the aspect or even the time of an event, when, in fact, due to its being the unmarked (default) form of the Greek verb, such implications are often left to context. Thus, within New Testament hermeneutics, it is considered an exegetical fallacy to attach undue significance to uses of the aorist. Although one may draw specific implications from an author's use of the imperfective or perfect, no such conclusions can, in general, be drawn from the use of the aorist, which may refer to an action "without specifying whether the action is unique, repeated, ingressive, instantaneous, past, or accomplished." In particular, the aorist does not imply a "once for all" action, as it has commonly been misinterpreted.

Care to continue? I suggest we don't dabble in things we know nothing about.

Or you might want to read the following:
The Aorist Tense – Ancient Greek for Everyone


Mathew 7:21-23
Not everyone who ONLY says Lord Lord will get into heaven, but those who DO THE WILL of the Father.
Mathew 7:23
And
James 1:22
22But prove yourselves doers of the word, and not merely hearers who delude themselves.
NASB

Maybe you'd like to explain the above instead of telling me how wrong I am...?

Jesus MANY times said what we are TO DO to be saved.
He even said HOW we are to BEHAVE.
Mathew 5:3-10
Mathew 25

And please explain the following verse which you still haven't done:
John 5:28-29

thanks.

 

[GodsGrace101]

lol is right! I've already given the argument and reasons why your views are wrong.


I recommend a Greek grammar textbook and begin to learn what the various tenses mean and indicate.


OK, how do you handle Paul's answer to the jailer when he said, "believe (aorist) on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved"?

The aorist means completed action. So much for your claims above.

WHICH aorist tense means completed action???

 

[GodsGrace101]

FreeGrace2 said: ↑
I've already responded to this, but repetition can't hurt, and may, in fact, help.

The verse is clear; instead of any warning about grieving the Spirit, Paul reminds believers who grieve the Spirit that they ARE SEALED with the Spirit, and the purpose of being sealed: for the day of redemption.

Sure doesn't sound like going to hell to me.


Eph 4:30, the verse you asked me to explain.


It means to cease to believe.


v.8 speaks of blessings in time (present life) and rewards in eternity (the life to come). That's what "godliness is profitable for all things" refers to.


Let's just focus and believe what the Bible says about this:
Eph 2:10 - For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.

Do I need to explain this?


It should be obvious, I think, that a believer could grieve the Spirit, then realize what they've done, confess it (1 John 1:9), but then do it again. Like any sin.

You want to discuss the way YOU want to.
You want to be the captain of the boat.
You love John 10:28.
That's about all you could talk about.
If you ever decide to go over my verses, you can do so.
until then...

If we believe in Jesus.................we are saved.
If we do not believe in Jesus....... we are not saved.

Easy.

 

[Call me Nic]

I’m not the one who defined the word pistis that was done thousands of years before me. David and Paul repented of their sin and were born again. They both were walking in the Spirit after their sins. I didn’t say anything about repenting from sin and being born again in the example I gave. According to the doctrine of faith alone these aren’t necessary for salvation.

Okay, but let's remember here - a person isn't born again by repenting from their sin. They're born again by believing on the Lord Jesus Christ (or in David's day), calling upon and believing the Lord God as his righteousness (same way that Abraham did). David was ALREADY saved before he repented from his sins of adultery and murder.

Secondly, I just looked up the word myself, and you're using the secondary definition of it. The primary definition is "to be convicted of the truth, indicative of trust."

When I look up the word "believe" in the Bible, especially regarding the salvation passage in Acts of the Apostles 16:31, the word in greek is "pisteuō," which is similar to Pistis. Pisteuō = "to think to be true, to be persuaded of, to credit, place confidence in," or "to entrust a thing to one, i.e. his fidelity." So, actually, the Bible says not to believe in or have confidence in your own fidelity (as you're preaching), but rather, to believe in and have confidence in the fidelity (the work and faithfulness) of Christ.

The Bible asks one time, "What must I do to be saved?" (Acts 16:30).

And it says, "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved, and thy house." And the word for believe, which is "pisteuō" means to entrust, which is complimentary of the word "pistis."

Who's fidelity do you trust, friend? Yours or Christ's? If you trust yours, are you sure you need a Savior?

 

[FreeGrace2]

Among other things, I said;
"Please get your facts straight."

That's quite obvious

Which is why I said it.

You're very good at telling me I'm wrong but very bad at replying to my verses, of which there are many in direct opposition to what you believe.

I've been explaining all along. But you have made it clear you're not interested in the FACTS of Greek grammar.

As to the aorist tense, it has more to do with action than time.

Right. It means completed action. Which in most cases has already occurred. Hm. In the past.

aorist
/ˈeɪərɪst; ˈɛərɪst/
noun
1.
(grammar) a tense of the verb in classicalGreek and in certain other inflected languages,indicating past action without reference towhether the action involved was momentary orcontinuous Compare perfect (sense 8),imperfect (sense 4)

As you can see, this goes against the belief of all those who think something happened in the past (as if the aorist tense had to do with time instead of action) and then CONTINUES into the future.

Did you actually miss the "past action" words???

[/QUOTE] In particular, the aorist does not imply a "once for all" action, as it has commonly been misinterpreted.

Care to continue?[/QUOTE]
I never even hinted that the aorist tense implies a "once for all" action. And you actually provided a good definition about "past action", which I already noted.

I suggest we don't dabble in things we know nothing about.

Well, I do know something about Greek grammar, since I have an intermediate grammar textbook, written in English, so I CAN and DO understand it.

Or you might want to read the following:

The Aorist Tense – Ancient Greek for Everyone[/QOUTE]
Thank you. I already have a number of grammar sources, some books, and some on line.

Mathew 7:21-23
Not everyone who ONLY says Lord Lord will get into heaven, but those who DO THE WILL of the Father.
Mathew 7:23

Here's the key question: what IS the will of the Father? Do you even know? If so, then just say what it is. And, btw, please include Scripture that supports your answer.

And
James 1:22
22But prove yourselves doers of the word, and not merely hearers who delude themselves.
NASB

Maybe you'd like to explain the above instead of telling me how wrong I am...?

No, you continue to misunderstand. I've explained WHY your views are wrong.

Jesus MANY times said what we are TO DO to be saved.

In every such verse, the ONLY CONDITION is to believe in Him for it.

He even said HOW we are to BEHAVE.
Mathew 5:3-10
Mathew 25

Are you now claiming that it's how we behave that determines whether we get into heaven?

And please explain the following verse which you still haven't done:
John 5:28-29

thanks.

You need to start paying attention. I've answered this multiple times. The key verse for understanding thesse 2 verses is found in that very context, back up in v.24.

I'm getting tired of your lack of focus. If you're not really interested in this discussion, then just say so and move on.

The "doing good" in 5;28,29 refers to "believing" in v.24.

 

[GodsGrace101]

I don't believe believers hate God.
And whatever happened to the main clause of the New Covenant?
I will be merciful to there unrighteousness and there sins and there lawless deeds I will remember no more
What about what David said in Psalm 32 and quoted by Paul in Romans 4?
Blessed is the man to whom the LORD shall not impute sin.
Do you think as a believer that you live a perfect life without ever sinning?
I know you say that you repent as soon as you know about it.
So while God is waiting for you to repent how is it that you keep your salvation? Because if it is lost as you guys claim it can, you can't get it back, it is impossible.

DM
I didn't say believers hate God.
How could anyone say such a thing?

Which clause of the New Covenant are you speaking about?
I don't know of any such clause and I've taught the New Covenant. Please refresh my memory, it's been some time.

As to Romans 4...do you mean this verse?
Romans 4:4-16
4Now to the one who works, his wage is not credited as a favor, but as what is due. 5But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness, 6just as David also speaks of the blessing on the man to whom God credits righteousness apart from works:

7“BLESSED ARE THOSE WHOSE LAWLESS DEEDS HAVE BEEN FORGIVEN,
AND WHOSE SINS HAVE BEEN COVERED.

8“BLESSED IS THE MAN WHOSE SIN THE LORD WILL NOT TAKE INTO ACCOUNT.”

9Is this blessing then on the circumcised, or on the uncircumcised also? For we say, “FAITH WAS CREDITED TO ABRAHAM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS.” 10How then was it credited? While he was circumcised, or uncircumcised? Not while circumcised, but while uncircumcised; 11and he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had while uncircumcised, so that he might be the father of all who believe without being circumcised, that righteousness might be credited to them, 12and the father of circumcision to those who not only are of the circumcision, but who also follow in the steps of the faith of our father Abraham which he had while uncircumcised.

13For the promise to Abraham or to his descendants that he would be heir of the world was not through the Law, but through the righteousness of faith.14For if those who are of the Law are heirs, faith is made void and the promise is nullified; 15for the Law brings about wrath, but where there is no law, there also is no violation.

16For this reason it is by faith, in order that it may be in accordance with grace, so that the promise will be guaranteed to all the descendants, not only to those who are of the Law, but also to those who are of the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all,
NASB

Please read it carefully. It is being written to the Jews and Paul was telling them that we are not saved by the LAW but by having faith in Jesus. The Jews were used to working under the LAW, they had to be circumcised --- now we are no longer circumcised but we are circumcised in our heart as is written in Jeremiah 31:33. We no longer follow laws written on stone, but we follow the law written on our heart.

We must still follow the law, but God has made it possible for us to follow it. This is the difference between the Old Covenant (or Mosaic Covenant) and the New Covenant.

It's not that the moral law has been abolished, it's that we are now able to adhere to it with the help of the Holy Spirit that dwells within us.

It is also interesting to note here that although circumcision was a sign by which the Hebrews WERE SEALED, this seal is no longer necessary...thereby proving that seals can be broken although some seem to believe that they cannot.

 

[Freedom~Sprite]

So have I. And Jesus said recipients of eternal life (saved people) shall never perish in John 10:28.

And He didn't add any condtions for recipients to meet in order to not perish.

But you DO.


No, you're the one not seeing your own problem which is not believing what Jesus said in John 10:28.


My beliefs come directly from Scripture.

Do we follow the teachings of Christ or realize the teachings of men that counter Christ are to be rebuked?
You'd be amazed at how many sites have members that insist Christ's teaching concerning eternal salvation, and the scripture , epistle, that Paul wrote reiterating the theme in the whole of scripture: Romans 11:29: ‘For God’s gift and his call are irrevocable.’

Who would ever want to believe they can lose what Christ died to bestow through the simple act of faith? We are sealed with the holy spirit and are led unto all truth and righteousness by that indwelling spirit of God.

God foreknew those who would respond to the good news. But to hear tell it among those who oppose that fact, God couldn't have possibly seen that there were some people whom he called that he didn't know would leave the faith and prefer Hell instead.
Stand for the truth because to do otherwise can compromise a forum. An atheist gained entry into a forum long ago and insisted Christians had to work to stay saved. He was found to have a huge number of dual accounts there promoting the same lie. It got so contentious that the owner made a rule that talking about eternal salvation was forbidden.
That's compromise for you! And exactly what it is very likely that later banned atheist wanted to see happen.

We shall know them by their fruits. Even when they are rotten to the core and damned to Hell. And sadly, those type are out there who want to lead people to keep them company there.

 

[Doug Melven]

An example. If a man was on a small island and no food was there and suddenly a large box dropped from heaven and had a note that said eat this food and live.

Does that mean he has to eat only once and he will live or does he need to daily eat to live? Obviously when he eats the first time he lives and that was a present action. The next day if he says I ate (past tense) yesterday so I don't need to eat to live today. That would be wrong. He needs to daily eat the food to live. To live means to go on in the life he has.

Of course he has to keep eating.
And if we want to live a victorious Christian life we need to keep feeding on Jesus.
And we have a right to do so because we have eternal life. We are children of God.
If you have a child that stops eating from your table are they still your child?
What about if they stop eating altogether and go on to the next life?

Similarily if Jesus said we must eat his flesh and drink his blood to have life in us. Then that life we live in is daily nourished by our eating his word. We read

This is so very true. But if we don't nourish that eternal life, it won't stop being eternal. It won't end, it's eternal.
If we don't nourish that eternal life in us we will have no victory and will live defeated lives. We will still possess eternal life though. We will definitely feel an emptiness. But once we are His child, we belong to Him, nothing we do can change that.

What about 1 Timothy 4:8-10?
On the other hand, discipline yourself for the purpose of godliness; 8for bodily discipline is only of little profit, but godliness is profitable for all things, since it holds promise for the present life and alsofor the life to come. 9It is a trustworthy statement deserving full acceptance.10For it is for this we labor and strive, because we have fixed our hope on the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of believers.
NASB

Yes we should live godly lives, not to get eternal life, but because we are now eternal beings. We just happen to still have a body of flesh. But, as I like to tell the people at my church, most of whom are older than I am right now at 54 years, "My life isn't even half over, I am going to live forever, so are you".

As to grieving the Holy Spirit...please answer...do you understand this to mean one time or continuous grieving?

This is a one time thing. Each single sin we commit grieves the Holy Spirit.

 

[FreeGrace2]

WHICH aorist tense means completed action???

Do you really want to "go there" since you've already admitted you don't know anything about Greek tenses.

From Daniel Wallace's Greek Grammar: Beyond the Basics-
p. 554

Under "Aspect"
The aorist tense presents an occurrence in summary, viewed as a whole from the outside, without regard for the internal make-up of the occurrence.

p.555
Under "time"
In the indicative, the aorist usually indicates past time with reference to the time of speaking.

Here are the various aorist tenses that you can google for yourself:

1. constative (complexive, punctiliar, comprehensive global) aorist
2. Ingressive (inceptive, inchoative) aorist
3. consummative (culminative, ecbatic, effective) aorist
4. gnomic aorist
5. epistolary aorist
6. proleptic (futuristic) aorist
7. immeidate past aorist/dramatic aorist

It should be rather easy to google these various aorist tenses.

 

[GodsGrace101]

Do we follow the teachings of Christ or realize the teachings of men that counter Christ are to be rebuked?
You'd be amazed at how many sites have members that insist Christ's teaching concerning eternal salvation, and the scripture , epistle, that Paul wrote reiterating the theme in the whole of scripture: Romans 11:29: ‘For God’s gift and his call are irrevocable.’

Who would ever want to believe they can lose what Christ died to bestow through the simple act of faith? We are sealed with the holy spirit and are led unto all truth and righteousness by that indwelling spirit of God.

God foreknew those who would respond to the good news. But to hear tell it among those who oppose that fact, God couldn't have possibly seen that there were some people whom he called that he didn't know would leave the faith and prefer Hell instead.
Stand for the truth because to do otherwise can compromise a forum. An atheist gained entry into a forum long ago and insisted Christians had to work to stay saved. He was found to have a huge number of dual accounts there promoting the same lie. It got so contentious that the owner made a rule that talking about eternal salvation was forbidden.
That's compromise for you! And exactly what it is very likely that later banned atheist wanted to see happen.

We shall know them by their fruits. Even when they are rotten to the core and damned to Hell. And sadly, those type are out there who want to lead people to keep them company there.

So someone who says that we are to do good deeds are damned to hell.

Those who say that we are to do nothing but believe are going straight to heaven.

We're in some state!
This reminds me of
Isaiah 5:20

 

[FreeGrace2]

You want to discuss the way YOU want to.

Huh? You asked for an explanation of Eph 4:30. I gave it.

You want to be the captain of the boat.

You don't know what you are saying.

You love John 10:28.

I love every verse in the Bible.

That's about all you could talk about.

Because the discussion is about losing salvation, which that verse doesn't allow.

If you ever decide to go over my verses, you can do so.
until then...

Anyone who has read my responses to your posts knows that I address your verses.

If we believe in Jesus.................we are saved.
If we do not believe in Jesus....... we are not saved.

Easy.

If so easy, give me any verse that actually says that. You know, prove your claim.

Like I have. Recipients of eternal life shall never perish.

Your claim here violates what Jesus said. Are you aware of that?

Jesus said whoever believes has eternal life. And He also said recipients of eternal life shall never perish.

What you just said is in conflict with what Jesus said.

 

[GodsGrace101]

Do you really want to "go there" since you've already admitted you don't know anything about Greek tenses.

From Daniel Wallace's Greek Grammar: Beyond the Basics-
p. 554

Under "Aspect"
The aorist tense presents an occurrence in summary, viewed as a whole from the outside, without regard for the internal make-up of the occurrence.

p.555
Under "time"
In the indicative, the aorist usually indicates past time with reference to the time of speaking.

Here are the various aorist tenses that you can google for yourself:

1. constative (complexive, punctiliar, comprehensive global) aorist
2. Ingressive (inceptive, inchoative) aorist
3. consummative (culminative, ecbatic, effective) aorist
4. gnomic aorist
5. epistolary aorist
6. proleptic (futuristic) aorist
7. immeidate past aorist/dramatic aorist

It should be rather easy to google these various aorist tenses.

I don't care to know Greek.
I've already told you that the translators seem to me to have done a good job.

And when I really want to know something, I'll ask someone who reads the N.T. in Greek. The same person who said the aorist tense is complicated.

You should try understanding plain and simple verses in the bible without going too much out of your way to make them say what you want them to say.

Try exegesis instead of eisegesis.
Which is what you've been doing till now...

 

[Freedom~Sprite]

So someone who says that we are to do good deeds are damned to hell.

Those who say that we are to do nothing but believe are going straight to heaven.

We're in some state!
This reminds me of
Isaiah 5:20

You should quote the right person . I never said what you're implying there after quoting me.